Hell In The Cell

[The Man Known as Dan]

I really like Gregg and his positive outlook on things but we don't need a whole board of Gregg's either.. we are here to discuss wrestling and there will be differing opinions. I'm shocked that anyone could not love rusev and Lana.

 

I'm fine with disagreements and criticisms of the program. But so much of it is just rote nonsense with no thought behind other than VINCE AND WRITERZ~ without any critical thought behind it. And there are plenty of things I don't like about stuffing instead of potatoes right now and I freely state them. I think Sheamus is a snooze and Miz is worthless and the really talented Sandow is wasted. The Bellas are a giant waste of time, although they're better than they were, but that's like saying a NFL team won 2 games last year but 1 the year before so they're now twice as good. I wish they'd give the tag division some more room to work with. I'd like to have more Bo Dallas in my life.

I liked Ambrose/Rollins last night but their lumberjack and Raw matches were both a lot better. I dug the stretcher spots and the like but, once they got in the cage, it wasn't what I wanted. They made an interesting choice in building to the big spot at first (and Ambrose spinning kendo sticks on top of the cage and decimating the new stooges was great) and, on paper, the conclusion -- Dean's about to do what Rollins did to him with cinderblocks until GLURT -- should have worked. But it didn't really do it for me. It was close to being great but instead was just pretty good.

But you guys all need to get a grip. Like I said -- the first HITC ever ended with the demonic younger brother of a wrestling zombie interfering in a classic match in a classic rivalry. How is this different than that? You're going to stop watching the WWE now because of this ending? Really? It's really defensible -- chickenshit Rollins gets to brag for an undeserved victory. Also. Daniel Bryan did pretty well for himself last year when he got sidetracked (or "buried" in the parlance of others) by Bray. It's the same formula.

He did pretty well because the crowd fucking demanded he be pushed or more or less completely ruin there Mania main event like they ruined the Rumble. Or are you seriously gonna tell me they planned the crowd turning on Batista to the point of "having to turn returning guy in a major motion picture later that year heel" heat he got?

Also, let's get one thing straight. The first HITC was between two former world champions, and was interrupted by a hyped new act that was coming in specifically as a rival to a pre-established main eventer. This was a match between two guys trying to break into the main event after months of bullshit and non finishes, and was interrupted by a guy who jobbed clean to a part timer 3 months ago.

[Greggulator]

Imagine how boring this place would be if I wasn't here?

[mco543]

Gregg is the hero we need but not the hero we deserve. He truly is the best of us.

[Craig H]

Such vitriol and hate for a show that was good. From some of the comments, you'd think that Cena and Orton came back out to have another match, kicking out Ambrose and Rollins in the process, while HHH and Nash came out to call Ambrose and Rollins vanilla midgets.

 

Step back off the ledge. I'm just not seeing the travesty here.

[Greggulator]

 

 

I really like Gregg and his positive outlook on things but we don't need a whole board of Gregg's either.. we are here to discuss wrestling and there will be differing opinions. I'm shocked that anyone could not love rusev and Lana.

 

I'm fine with disagreements and criticisms of the program. But so much of it is just rote nonsense with no thought behind other than VINCE AND WRITERZ~ without any critical thought behind it. And there are plenty of things I don't like about stuffing instead of potatoes right now and I freely state them. I think Sheamus is a snooze and Miz is worthless and the really talented Sandow is wasted. The Bellas are a giant waste of time, although they're better than they were, but that's like saying a NFL team won 2 games last year but 1 the year before so they're now twice as good. I wish they'd give the tag division some more room to work with. I'd like to have more Bo Dallas in my life.

I liked Ambrose/Rollins last night but their lumberjack and Raw matches were both a lot better. I dug the stretcher spots and the like but, once they got in the cage, it wasn't what I wanted. They made an interesting choice in building to the big spot at first (and Ambrose spinning kendo sticks on top of the cage and decimating the new stooges was great) and, on paper, the conclusion -- Dean's about to do what Rollins did to him with cinderblocks until GLURT -- should have worked. But it didn't really do it for me. It was close to being great but instead was just pretty good.

But you guys all need to get a grip. Like I said -- the first HITC ever ended with the demonic younger brother of a wrestling zombie interfering in a classic match in a classic rivalry. How is this different than that? You're going to stop watching the WWE now because of this ending? Really? It's really defensible -- chickenshit Rollins gets to brag for an undeserved victory. Also. Daniel Bryan did pretty well for himself last year when he got sidetracked (or "buried" in the parlance of others) by Bray. It's the same formula.

He did pretty well because the crowd fucking demanded he be pushed or more or less completely ruin there Mania main event like they ruined the Rumble. Or are you seriously gonna tell me they planned the crowd turning on Batista to the point of "having to turn returning guy in a major motion picture later that year heel" heat he got?

Also, let's get one thing straight. The first HITC was between two former world champions, and was interrupted by a hyped new act that was coming in specifically as a rival to a pre-established main eventer. This was a match between two guys trying to break into the main event after months of bullshit and non finishes, and was interrupted by a guy who jobbed clean to a part timer 3 months ago.

 

 

I'm done talking about Bryan's push or how it happened. I wasn't in the WWE writer's room. Neither were you. So please stop acting like you know how or when they pulled the trigger. Maybe it did happen the way everyone who critiques wrestling based on NEWZ~ written but illiterates. I am a journalist. I don't believe half the crap I read in the NY Times. Do you think I'm going to buy whatever Meltzer is selling in an industry that's still incredibly carny? Or, even better, like Meltzer isn't a carny himself? He gets subscriptions and views driven by news that people who thrive on backstage gossip need to know. He's like Fox News is to conservatives or MSNBC is to left-of-center types. He has a product and knows his audience. WrestleZone and the like are even worse.

I take all of that stuff with a grain of salt and don't let it cloud my judgment when I watch the stories unfold. Does anyone care what machinations happen in Hollywood when movies get made or who gets cast in what role? Because that happens all of the time. But not one critic ever brings it up because, ultimately, it doesn't matter one bit.

Watch wrestling however you want. That's fine. But if you're basing your thoughts on the program based on whatever nonsense is "reported," than I reserve the right to point out you're basing your criticisms on watching and getting angry about play-fighting through a really dumb and pointless lens.

Bray also won clean against Jericho a few weeks ago. And they've built him back up in some pretty great vignettes. So there's that, too.

[jstout]

The Ambrose-Rollins cell was plunder-heavy because it reinforces the unpredictability of Ambrose's character. He just kept pulling crap from under the ring that was teased but never used. 

 

At one point, cages were the blowoffs of feuds. Now the cell, which I guess you could call the ultimate cage, is just another method of storyline advancement that could have just as well been done at the next day's Raw with no harm done. The only positive I see is the Ambrose-Rollins feud has never been resolved and can be revisited at a later date.

 

I just kinda figured Jericho won the Wyatt feud. Guess I was wrong. I still think they've booked themselves into a corner with Ambrose-Wyatt unless it ends screwily with Rollins interfering on behalf of Wyatt to restart Rollins-Ambrose.

 

I really think the WWE is thinking of PPVs as just another Raw - storylines advance, nothing really is ended in a cut-and-dried fashion. Guess it's part of the Network mentality that whoever is watching is watching everything and it's all part of a greater whole that flows from storyline to storyline without storylines effectvely ending.

 

The big problem, I think, is we need more new guys clawing their way to the top. Time for another batch of new blood from NXT, considering how "well" the last batch did (Bo Dallas, Adam Rose). And Sandow eventually getting tired of Mis could be quite the kickstarter for him.

[NintendoLogic]

Can anyone honestly argue that either Rollins or Ambrose are more over now than they were at the beginning of their feud? From my perspective, they're both clearly less over. If that's the case, then what good did the feud do?

[piranesi]

I don't think Dean suffers too much for not getting the pin.  I mean he basically beat Rollins to a quivering sack of goo, which is all he wanted to do. 

 

But there should have been some clear trophy or mark.  In a way the only way for this feud to pay off for Dean isn't for Dean to pin Seth, but to cost him something.  A title, his briefcase.  The price for betraying Dean should be something more tangible than "a match" even though that's how wrestling works. They should have maybe worked an injury so Seth could be hobbled on crutches or in a neck brace...something that marks him as having "paid the price" for double crossing a mad man. 

[The Man Known as Dan]

I really like Gregg and his positive outlook on things but we don't need a whole board of Gregg's either.. we are here to discuss wrestling and there will be differing opinions. I'm shocked that anyone could not love rusev and Lana.

I'm fine with disagreements and criticisms of the program. But so much of it is just rote nonsense with no thought behind other than VINCE AND WRITERZ~ without any critical thought behind it. And there are plenty of things I don't like about stuffing instead of potatoes right now and I freely state them. I think Sheamus is a snooze and Miz is worthless and the really talented Sandow is wasted. The Bellas are a giant waste of time, although they're better than they were, but that's like saying a NFL team won 2 games last year but 1 the year before so they're now twice as good. I wish they'd give the tag division some more room to work with. I'd like to have more Bo Dallas in my life.

I liked Ambrose/Rollins last night but their lumberjack and Raw matches were both a lot better. I dug the stretcher spots and the like but, once they got in the cage, it wasn't what I wanted. They made an interesting choice in building to the big spot at first (and Ambrose spinning kendo sticks on top of the cage and decimating the new stooges was great) and, on paper, the conclusion -- Dean's about to do what Rollins did to him with cinderblocks until GLURT -- should have worked. But it didn't really do it for me. It was close to being great but instead was just pretty good.

But you guys all need to get a grip. Like I said -- the first HITC ever ended with the demonic younger brother of a wrestling zombie interfering in a classic match in a classic rivalry. How is this different than that? You're going to stop watching the WWE now because of this ending? Really? It's really defensible -- chickenshit Rollins gets to brag for an undeserved victory. Also. Daniel Bryan did pretty well for himself last year when he got sidetracked (or "buried" in the parlance of others) by Bray. It's the same formula.

He did pretty well because the crowd fucking demanded he be pushed or more or less completely ruin there Mania main event like they ruined the Rumble. Or are you seriously gonna tell me they planned the crowd turning on Batista to the point of "having to turn returning guy in a major motion picture later that year heel" heat he got?

Also, let's get one thing straight. The first HITC was between two former world champions, and was interrupted by a hyped new act that was coming in specifically as a rival to a pre-established main eventer. This was a match between two guys trying to break into the main event after months of bullshit and non finishes, and was interrupted by a guy who jobbed clean to a part timer 3 months ago.

I'm done talking about Bryan's push or how it happened. I wasn't in the WWE writer's room. Neither were you. So please stop acting like you know how or when they pulled the trigger. Maybe it did happen the way everyone who critiques wrestling based on NEWZ~ written but illiterates. I am a journalist. I don't believe half the crap I read in the NY Times. Do you think I'm going to buy whatever Meltzer is selling in an industry that's still incredibly carny? Or, even better, like Meltzer isn't a carny himself? He gets subscriptions and views driven by news that people who thrive on backstage gossip need to know. He's like Fox News is to conservatives or MSNBC is to left-of-center types. He has a product and knows his audience. WrestleZone and the like are even worse.

I take all of that stuff with a grain of salt and don't let it cloud my judgment when I watch the stories unfold. Does anyone care what machinations happen in Hollywood when movies get made or who gets cast in what role? Because that happens all of the time. But not one critic ever brings it up because, ultimately, it doesn't matter one bit.

Watch wrestling however you want. That's fine. But if you're basing your thoughts on the program based on whatever nonsense is "reported," than I reserve the right to point out you're basing your criticisms on watching stuffing instead of potatoes through a really dumb and pointless lens.

Bray also won clean against Jericho a few weeks ago. And they've built him back up in some pretty great vignettes. So there's that, too.

I don't read the Observer or any other wrestling newsletter bullshit, I just use deductive reasoning. Batista returns as they completely remove Bryan from the title picture. At the Rumble, Bryan jobs clean to Wyatt, setting up Bray going after Cena later in the show, while Batista wins the Rumble to a smattering of boos from a crowd that wanted Bryan there bad. I don't need to read a newsletter to know when an audible is called.

And 3 months with vignettes doesn't undo the damage they did to Bray, especially when they change nothing in his character.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

 

 

He did pretty well because the crowd fucking demanded he be pushed or more or less completely ruin there Mania main event like they ruined the Rumble. Or are you seriously gonna tell me they planned the crowd turning on Batista to the point of "having to turn returning guy in a major motion picture later that year heel" heat he got?

 

I'm done talking about Bryan's push or how it happened. 

 

Could have fooled me with the way your post didn't stop there.

[Tromatagon]

Now that they've confirmed Bray is solo, the real interesting thing will be how they repackage Harper and Rowan.

Either individually as two guys who have survived the cult and come out as really fucked up dudes, which would probably work best as one of them being a face trying to do the right thing while the other is evil as fuck to the point where Bray will even step back and think he's gone too far-

Or as a team, which could be TC and Jody.

Then came the day when Rowan fucked the chicken..

[evilwaldo]

Now that they've confirmed Bray is solo, the real interesting thing will be how they repackage Harper and Rowan.

Either individually as two guys who have survived the cult and come out as really fucked up dudes, which would probably work best as one of them being a face trying to do the right thing while the other is evil as fuck to the point where Bray will even step back and think he's gone too far-

Or as a team, which could be TC and Jody.

Then came the day when Rowan fucked the chicken..

 

Corporate Harper and Corporate Rowan if Kane is any indication.

[Cristobal]

I really like Gregg and his positive outlook on things but we don't need a whole board of Gregg's either.. we are here to discuss wrestling and there will be differing opinions. I'm shocked that anyone could not love rusev and Lana.

As one of the few who has been negative about them, I'll say that I don't dislike either Rusev or Lana so much as I hate the gimmick.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Now that they've confirmed Bray is solo, the real interesting thing will be how they repackage Harper and Rowan.

Either individually as two guys who have survived the cult and come out as really fucked up dudes, which would probably work best as one of them being a face trying to do the right thing while the other is evil as fuck to the point where Bray will even step back and think he's gone too far-

Or as a team, which could be TC and Jody.

Then came the day when Rowan fucked the chicken..

 

Corporate Harper and Corporate Rowan if Kane is any indication.

I think they just kinda hang around the midcard while being the same guys for a while honestly.

[Fallacy!]

Well, I just don't want anyone breaking their promises to never watch again. Plenty of others voiced their differing opinions, which is cool. Hell, they'll probably have a good discussion and continue to have one into tonight's Raw thread. You said you're done. No Raw thread for you.

 

Has anyone in this thread even said they are NEVER GOING WATCH WWE EVER AGAIN?

 

It's amazing that some here can't seem to fathom the idea that some people think the WWE is shit right now. And not only can you not fathom it, but you can't even let people just not like the show. It's like, "no, no, you HAVE to like this.. and here's why you're wrong and stupid for thinking it sucks."

 

We're just posting our thoughts on the show. Nobody who thought HIAC sucked is hammering away at those who didn't and trying to get you to change your mind. You liked it, a lot of people didn't. Fucking deal with it. If you can't, then perhaps you should take a shower, hit the weights and get a clue.

[JohnnyJ]

The last two ppvs have felt like WWE did not want to make a decision and went with the distraction ending. It's lazy and insulting.

 

Last month, in the middle of the Brock v. Cena match, Rollins inexplicably breaks up the match. It was lazy because they could not think of a satisfying way to end the match. It was insulting because no one is stupid enough to cash in the MITB brief case on Lesnar. The distraction didn't end at the end of the ppv. In order to make Lesnar's part time schedule work, Cena spent the next month chasing after the guy he was not feuding with.

 

Last night, in the middle of the Rollins v. Ambrose match, Bray inexplicably breaks up the match. It was lazy because they could not think of a satisfying way to end the match. It was insulting because Bray doesn't have any motivation to insert himself into the feud other than, "he's Bray Wyatt, he doesn't need any motivation." And again, it does not appear that the distraction ended last night. Ambrose will now be more concerned with getting even against Bray than some guy named Seth Rollins. 

 

I've been thinking a lot lately about what the Yes movement was. Was it even about Daniel Bryan? Or was he just the right person for the unsatisfied crowds to channel their frustrations through?

 

Ratings have been down for a while now. Interest in the product is lower than it has been in some time. I don't know how it could be any clearer that the fans do not want what WWE is selling. You would think it would be time to mix it up. But we get more of the same. Another Cena-Orton match which makes Cena the number one contender...again.  

[Craig H]

EDIT: Nevermind

[Burgundy LaRue]

Jstout is right. With the WWE giving away PPVs through the network, it makes sense that they are now major extensions of the regular programming.  While that takes away some of the mystique for smaller PPVs, it allows for more story progression/continuation--if done correctly.

 

Now that they've confirmed Bray is solo, the real interesting thing will be how they repackage Harper and Rowan.

 

What would have been interesting is if Bray/Harper were having problems.  Bray kicks Harper out of the Family, recruits Ambrose, who surprisingly goes along with it.  Harper can't forget the conflict and pain Bray caused him.  Harper takes his anger and pain out on the new Chosen One, Ambrose.  Rollins gets Harper on his side, but he's dealing with someone who not only may be crazy a la Ambrose, but is emotionally scarred.  A true unknown, and now Rollins has to figure out how to dispatch Harper.  Ambrose beats Harper at some point to quiet things down a bit.

 

Rowan becomes the Family's #1 enforcer and upon his return, work Reigns into the story as trying to bring Ambrose back to the 'normal' side--well, as normal as Ambrose will ever be.  You could even have Cena and Bryan involved on the fringes as still carrying scars from having Bray in their lives for even short windows of time.

 

Eventually, Ambrose sees that Bray is full of it and tries to leave. But by then, Rollins has cashed in on the Lesnar/Cena winner and has the belt.  Bray wants the belt for the Family/his personal profit.  So he somehow forces Ambrose to fight Rollins for it at WM.  Ambrose breaks away from the Family just before WM, gets the win and the belt.  But Bray isn't going away quietly.  He wants the belt, he wants Dean, he wants to eat the WWE universe whole.  Ambrose/Bray feud can last from post-WM to SummerSlam.

 

You can easily have 8-10 guys involved in the story with lots of potential fall-out.

 

And now I'll take my leave, because I feel a sword fight coming on, and I'm not armed for that.

[Greggulator]

 

 

 

 

I really like Gregg and his positive outlook on things but we don't need a whole board of Gregg's either.. we are here to discuss wrestling and there will be differing opinions. I'm shocked that anyone could not love rusev and Lana.

I'm fine with disagreements and criticisms of the program. But so much of it is just rote nonsense with no thought behind other than VINCE AND WRITERZ~ without any critical thought behind it. And there are plenty of things I don't like about stuffing instead of potatoes right now and I freely state them. I think Sheamus is a snooze and Miz is worthless and the really talented Sandow is wasted. The Bellas are a giant waste of time, although they're better than they were, but that's like saying a NFL team won 2 games last year but 1 the year before so they're now twice as good. I wish they'd give the tag division some more room to work with. I'd like to have more Bo Dallas in my life.

I liked Ambrose/Rollins last night but their lumberjack and Raw matches were both a lot better. I dug the stretcher spots and the like but, once they got in the cage, it wasn't what I wanted. They made an interesting choice in building to the big spot at first (and Ambrose spinning kendo sticks on top of the cage and decimating the new stooges was great) and, on paper, the conclusion -- Dean's about to do what Rollins did to him with cinderblocks until GLURT -- should have worked. But it didn't really do it for me. It was close to being great but instead was just pretty good.

But you guys all need to get a grip. Like I said -- the first HITC ever ended with the demonic younger brother of a wrestling zombie interfering in a classic match in a classic rivalry. How is this different than that? You're going to stop watching the WWE now because of this ending? Really? It's really defensible -- chickenshit Rollins gets to brag for an undeserved victory. Also. Daniel Bryan did pretty well for himself last year when he got sidetracked (or "buried" in the parlance of others) by Bray. It's the same formula.

He did pretty well because the crowd fucking demanded he be pushed or more or less completely ruin there Mania main event like they ruined the Rumble. Or are you seriously gonna tell me they planned the crowd turning on Batista to the point of "having to turn returning guy in a major motion picture later that year heel" heat he got?

Also, let's get one thing straight. The first HITC was between two former world champions, and was interrupted by a hyped new act that was coming in specifically as a rival to a pre-established main eventer. This was a match between two guys trying to break into the main event after months of bullshit and non finishes, and was interrupted by a guy who jobbed clean to a part timer 3 months ago.

I'm done talking about Bryan's push or how it happened. I wasn't in the WWE writer's room. Neither were you. So please stop acting like you know how or when they pulled the trigger. Maybe it did happen the way everyone who critiques wrestling based on NEWZ~ written but illiterates. I am a journalist. I don't believe half the crap I read in the NY Times. Do you think I'm going to buy whatever Meltzer is selling in an industry that's still incredibly carny? Or, even better, like Meltzer isn't a carny himself? He gets subscriptions and views driven by news that people who thrive on backstage gossip need to know. He's like Fox News is to conservatives or MSNBC is to left-of-center types. He has a product and knows his audience. WrestleZone and the like are even worse.

I take all of that stuff with a grain of salt and don't let it cloud my judgment when I watch the stories unfold. Does anyone care what machinations happen in Hollywood when movies get made or who gets cast in what role? Because that happens all of the time. But not one critic ever brings it up because, ultimately, it doesn't matter one bit.

Watch wrestling however you want. That's fine. But if you're basing your thoughts on the program based on whatever nonsense is "reported," than I reserve the right to point out you're basing your criticisms on watching stuffing instead of potatoes through a really dumb and pointless lens.

Bray also won clean against Jericho a few weeks ago. And they've built him back up in some pretty great vignettes. So there's that, too.

I don't read the Observer or any other wrestling newsletter bullshit, I just use deductive reasoning. Batista returns as they completely remove Bryan from the title picture. At the Rumble, Bryan jobs clean to Wyatt, setting up Bray going after Cena later in the show, while Batista wins the Rumble to a smattering of boos from a crowd that wanted Bryan there bad. I don't need to read a newsletter to know when an audible is called.

 

 

So, essentially you're saying: "I hate the WWE for giving me the match and result I wanted."

[Tromatagon]

Well, I just don't want anyone breaking their promises to never watch again. Plenty of others voiced their differing opinions, which is cool. Hell, they'll probably have a good discussion and continue to have one into tonight's Raw thread. You said you're done. No Raw thread for you.

 

Has anyone in this thread even said they are NEVER GOING WATCH WWE EVER AGAIN?

 

Yeah, pretty much. Posts are there, go check them out.

[Greggulator]

I look at the "minor" PPVs as Clash of the Champions. Sometimes you get the end of a major feud or something special -- Flair/Funk, for example. But mostly, you get really high-end versions of stuff that continues feuds -- Midnights/Fantastics, Clash/Sting, even Steamboat/Flair had the "foot under the rope" deal to lead to their final match.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

 

So, essentially you're saying: "I hate the WWE for giving me the match and result I wanted."

 

 

1. I thought you were done talking about this?

 

2.. What, I think, is being said was "I only got what I wanted because of circumstances beyond WWE's control, and I don't trust them to competently book in the absence of circumstances forcing their hand".

 

The Ziggler push has probably been driven by injuries, and the Ambrose push too.

[Patrick B.]

An earlier poster had it right:  The PPVs aren't really special any more since they put on plenty of good matches on free TV.  When everything's special, then nothing's special.  That's why the Ambrose-Rollins Cell match really stood out.  Cena-Orton didn't do much that you wouldn't seen in a standard no-DQ match on Raw.

[Playa Shunna Ver 3.0]

 

 

Now that they've confirmed Bray is solo, the real interesting thing will be how they repackage Harper and Rowan.

Either individually as two guys who have survived the cult and come out as really fucked up dudes, which would probably work best as one of them being a face trying to do the right thing while the other is evil as fuck to the point where Bray will even step back and think he's gone too far-

Or as a team, which could be TC and Jody.

Then came the day when Rowan fucked the chicken..

 

Corporate Harper and Corporate Rowan if Kane is any indication.

I think they just kinda hang around the midcard while being the same guys for a while honestly.

 

They should just get Bray's old gimmicks.  Husky Harper and Rowan Rotunda.  

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

An earlier poster had it right:  The PPVs aren't really special any more since they put on plenty of good matches on free TV.  When everything's special, then nothing's special.  That's why the Ambrose-Rollins Cell match really stood out.  Cena-Orton didn't do much that you wouldn't seen in a standard no-DQ match on Raw.

 

It's quite funny when you have people making criticisms of the WCW product on the Monday Night Wars that can so easily be levelled at current day WWE.