Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Adrian Beltre had a sub-.800 OPS before he boosted it over that mark by playing in Arlington. At the plate, he's a slightly underpaid man's Aramis Ramirez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 He coolness rating is off the chart. Highest in the league since Berne Mac pretended to be a baseball player. INTANGIBLES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Adrian Beltre is a HOFer. Four-time Gold Glove winner, lots of big offensive seasons, good career totals. He belongs. But he won't get in. He is a HOFer for haviing great seasons in his contract year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Beltre hit free agency for the first time after his age 25 season. That's something you hardly ever see anymore. Players don't get the chance to cash in twice like he did. Sure his offensive numbers were disappointing early in his career - he was playing in Dodger Stadium as one of the younger players in the league. Then he went to an even worse park for hitters in Seattle, and still managed 103 homers in five years. Going after Beltre for "only starting to hit once he went to Arlington" is a bullshit argument that ignores the fact that the first TWELVE YEARS of his career were spent in two of the most extreme hitters parks in baseball. During those 12 years, he hit .285/.332/.491 on the road compared to .255/.309/.430 in his home park. If you lump his one year with Boston in with his Texas years, he's hitting a comparable .301/.345/.508 on the road...and .334/.378/.585 at home. Gee, it's almost like he went from one extreme to another! Please, spare me the pearl clutching about Texas turning him into a better player - he's been the same damn player over his entire career, but he's playing in a park that doesn't horrifically suppress his offense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 You know - I hate my fanbase A LOT but I can only imagine the rage that Tim Livingston fills with when associated with his. Keep punching women in the face Giants fans. Real good... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Beltre hit free agency for the first time after his age 25 season. That's something you hardly ever see anymore. Players don't get the chance to cash in twice like he did. Sure his offensive numbers were disappointing early in his career - he was playing in Dodger Stadium as one of the younger players in the league. Then he went to an even worse park for hitters in Seattle, and still managed 103 homers in five years. Going after Beltre for "only starting to hit once he went to Arlington" is a bullshit argument that ignores the fact that the first TWELVE YEARS of his career were spent in two of the most extreme hitters parks in baseball. During those 12 years, he hit .285/.332/.491 on the road compared to .255/.309/.430 in his home park. If you lump his one year with Boston in with his Texas years, he's hitting a comparable .301/.345/.508 on the road...and .334/.378/.585 at home. Gee, it's almost like he went from one extreme to another! Please, spare me the pearl clutching about Texas turning him into a better player - he's been the same damn player over his entire career, but he's playing in a park that doesn't horrifically suppress his offense now. You are wildly overestimating park factors. Beltre's wRC+ during his Dodgers and Mariners years ranged from 75 to 116, with the exception of the contract year where he was 161. The Red Sox and Rangers years ranged from 135 to 152. So no, he has not been "the same damn player over his entire career." His career average is 114, just a few ticks behind Aramis Ramirez's 118. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Pulling that 75 number out of your hat is another bullshit piece of distortion, considering it came in 77 games as a 19-year old. You're also ignoring the fact that Beltre is an elite defender at third, while calling Ramirez average would be a stretch. Would you shit on Pudge Rodriguez's HOF chances by comparing his wRC+ to that of Javy Lopez's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Ok, first off, could you stop being a giant prick? We're talking baseball stats, here, so there's really no call for that. Second, the career total is right there. Aramis Ramirez doesn't belong in the HoF either. If you want a comparison with similar defense: Scott Rolen, with a wRC+ of 122. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 With 1200 fewer PA and a career that's already over. Rolen would have an interesting case on his own if his career wasn't essentially over at 35. Meanwhile, Beltre's having the best year of his career at 35. If he gets hit by a meteor tomorrow, he's not in (well, he probably is because of the tragic aspect of it all). Two-three more years and he's a slam dunk.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 This Tanaka injury is a heartbreaker. I love watching that dude pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 That's the weird thing about Beltre. Excluding that one anomalous contract year in LA, we're essentially seeing his peak years in his 30s. Based on his age 20 through 30 seasons, no way is Beltre anywhere near the HoF, and I can't think of another hitter who's had that sort of career arc. I'd agree that if we see a few more years of maintaining his current production with Texas, (and no long drop-off after,) it's likely Beltre gets in, but a drop-off in his late 30s is also a real possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 WIllie Stargell is the best possible comp I can think of, but he was still really good when he was younger. (warning: arbitrary endpoints comin) 22-30: .275/.341/.503, 196 HR, zero top ten MVP finishes 31-42: .287/.376/.551, 279 HR, seven top ten MVP finishes Of course with Stargell, the park factor thing pops up again - going from Forbes Field to Three Rivers helped him a good bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Stargell's a good one. The park numbers are interesting there. Career at Forbes: .284/.347/.499 At Three Rivers: .294/.389/.577 Only a 10 point difference in average, but a 42 point jump in OBP. With Stargell, you can say that Three Rivers is probably responsible for his jump in AVG and SLG, but it also coincided with him being a more patient hitter in general. Beltre's splits are even more extreme. Dodger Stadium: .253/.316/.423 Safeco Field: .254/.307/.411 Ameriquest Field: .334/.375/.588 There are aspects of Beltre that are similar, such as the walk rate, but this is more than just park factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Of course with Stargell, the park factor thing pops up again - going from Forbes Field to Three Rivers helped him a good bit. Yeah, he went from 31 HRs in 1970, the last year of Forbes (with some Three Rivers thrown in) to 48 in 1971, the first full year in Three Rivers. Speaking of Stargell, I wonder if there's ever been a HOFer who missed a higher percentage of his team's games than Willie? The guy played less then 3/4 of his team's games. He missed 36 games his MVP season (has anybody else ever done THAT?) He never once played in 150 games, something even "his body was always broken" Mickey Mantle did several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 In his first 18 starts this year, Adam Wainwright has 9 with 7+ IP and 0 runs allowed. Nobody's ever done that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted July 11, 2014 Author Share Posted July 11, 2014 Um, #hitsformcgehee, I guess. sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The Yanks - clearly desperate for anyone who ever set on a major league pitching mound - acquired Jeff Francis from the As Since the As had DFAed Franics - I am assuming the compensation is almost nothing. Which is too much for Jeff Francis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Of course with Stargell, the park factor thing pops up again - going from Forbes Field to Three Rivers helped him a good bit. Yeah, he went from 31 HRs in 1970, the last year of Forbes (with some Three Rivers thrown in) to 48 in 1971, the first full year in Three Rivers. Speaking of Stargell, I wonder if there's ever been a HOFer who missed a higher percentage of his team's games than Willie? The guy played less then 3/4 of his team's games. He missed 36 games his MVP season (has anybody else ever done THAT?) He never once played in 150 games, something even "his body was always broken" Mickey Mantle did several times. Even if you get creative and subtract Stargell's ten game debut and last three seasons, he still missed 21.2% of the Pirates' games over his career. Since you brought up Mantle, he only missed 15.4% of Yankees games over his career. - just a little better than Chipper Jones (14.6%). Comparing them to another chronically injured current player, Ellsbury has missed 30% of his games since his first full season (excluding this year). That's crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Speaking as an A's fan...I'd completely forgotten we had Jeff Francis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Even if you get creative and subtract Stargell's ten game debut and last three seasons, he still missed 21.2% of the Pirates' games over his career. Since you brought up Mantle, he only missed 15.4% of Yankees games over his career. - just a little better than Chipper Jones (14.6%). Comparing them to another chronically injured current player, Ellsbury has missed 30% of his games since his first full season (excluding this year). That's crazy. Skipping his rookie year (1996), Scott Rolen missed 23% of his team's games which is even more amazing when you consider he played 150 games five times, even getting to 160 once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoffman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 The Cardinals claimed George Kotteras off waivers from the Indians. I smell victory already, this will end up exactly like Kurt Warner replacing Trent Green. Hand over the keys to the NL Central, Milwaukee, there's no stopping Cardinal Nation now thanks to all the super secret Brewer knowledge we'll gather from Kotteras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I ":M NOT OWOORIED IN THEI SLIGHTIOTEST CATHTER NOT THQAT IMPROTNT WE GOT ALLSTAR MATT BARPENTER!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoffman Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 Time to go to Johnny Mac's for a custom-made BARPENTER!!!!! jersey (the exclamation points are mandatory). I'll be the classiest, sincerest Cardinal fan around - next to this guy, anyway: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 If it said GOO, I'd believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted July 11, 2014 Share Posted July 11, 2014 I really like this kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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