The Great WWE Stock Crash of 2014

[Antacular]

#goat

[Reed]

Anyone remember back in 2008 when Barack Obama made those infamous comments about how poor, uneducated voters were bitter and always clinging to guns and religion?

 

And then like a week later, all the candidates showed up on Raw, and John McCain was all "I don't think you guys are bitter or clinging to guns."

 

That told me a lot about what people in the mainstream actually think of wrestling fans.

[Elsalvajeloco]

"It's still real to me, dammit" convention guy didn't help that case, either.

[Reed]

I always assumed most wrestling fans were college frat boys or comic book geeks. With some kids thrown in.

[Kevin Wilson]

I don't think the rise of MMA has anything to do with it, people still watch action movies and super hero movies that are 'fake'.  MMA ratings have dropped in the last few years while RAW has stayed pretty steady.  People didn't watch Austin and Rock because their matches were great, it was their personalities/characters.  Most the people I know that are former wrestling fans from the late 90s don't watch MMA either, people have time to watch both if they are interested.  But I do agree that wrestling will not reach the same level as it did in the "Attitude Era", it may improve of course if they get another hot act but I don't see it getting as high as it once was.  But putting the blame on MMA seems off, I really don't think it being 'fake fighting' has anything at all to do with why the ratings went down.

[IHFP]

Are geeks/nerds a valuable demo? I feel that we're at least a big percentage of the audience instead of what the mainstream thinks of the majority of  wrestling fans (rednecks, poorly educated people, etc.).

[Elsalvajeloco]

I don't think the rise of MMA has anything to do with it, people still watch action movies and super hero movies that are 'fake'.  MMA ratings have dropped in the last few years while RAW has stayed pretty steady.  People didn't watch Austin and Rock because their matches were great, it was their personalities/characters.  Most the people I know that are former wrestling fans from the late 90s don't watch MMA either, people have time to watch both if they are interested.  But I do agree that wrestling will not reach the same level as it did in the "Attitude Era", it may improve of course if they get another hot act but I don't see it getting as high as it once was.  But putting the blame on MMA seems off, I really don't think it being 'fake fighting' has anything at all to do with why the ratings went down.

 

It had something to do with it in '05-'09, but not for the last five years really. That's when a good majority of would-be pro wrestling to MMA fans (aka the young adults with disposable income who decided they won't going to pay to see John Cena) converted. You add in the pissed off boxing fans who got tired of the Oscar-Floyd-Pac megafight era and that's a good recipe for success. The last five years or so is strictly on the WWE for failing to create new stars. 

[Reed]

Personally, I can't see that many rednecks following WWE. I mean, Vince is the same guy who fought God on pay-per-view, for crying out loud. He's also mocked the tea party on more than one occasion.

[Reed]

Are geeks/nerds a valuable demo? I feel that we're at least a big percentage of the audience instead of what the mainstream thinks of the majority of  wrestling fans (rednecks, poorly educated people, etc.).

 

I think the TV companies may be correct in saying that wrestling fans don't have huge amounts of money, but I think it's more because many are in their 20s (who has money in their 20s?) or are parents who only turn it on because their kids beg them to and don't really watch. Not necessarily that we're all uneducated rednecks.

[Big Fresh]

This is going in an ugly direction...

[Reed]

Regardless, can we all agree wrestling fans are better than people who watch Glee?

[offspring515]

Regardless, can we all agree wrestling fans are better than people who watch Glee?

But here is the thing, society would vehemently disagree with that. Even the crappiest tv show you can imagine is seen as more respectable than wrestling.

I just saw clips from a recent episode of Grey's Anatomy where a patient couldn't quit farting. She was going to get a metalic bunghole put in. This was played for laughs.

That's pretty much on par with the worst comedy stuff WWE does (and pretty much matches the Nattie angle from a few years back). But Grey's Anatomy doesn't get much criticism beyond "oh, is that still on?"

To put it another way even garbage like Cris Angel doesn't face the scrutiny wrestling does. Tell 10 friends you're going to a wrestling show and you'll hear it's fake at least once. Now tell them you're going to see a magician. Will they say "oh you know he didn't really saw that woman in half?" Probably not.

[Matt D]

I kind of hate to say it, but I think the biggest thing that we've got coming out of this note is the diversity of content idea. In fact, I think that's what they should partially be using the network for. They need to do a full press on things like Blackman's Bounties or the Superstars Do Funny Jobs stuff. They have all of these fleshed out, marketable characters. Bad News Barrett could be way more marketable in a non-wrestling setting than a wrestling one. You could have a show with Mark Henry and Cesaro going around the world having adventures and doing crazy feats of strength in a Man vs Food sort of way. Just challenges and that would probably appeal to general audiences way more than the two of them having an awesome match. Take the marketable elements and spin them out and downplay the wrestling side of things completely. That's the solution to this. 

[Petey]

I don't think the rise of MMA has anything to do with it, people still watch action movies and super hero movies that are 'fake'.  MMA ratings have dropped in the last few years while RAW has stayed pretty steady.  People didn't watch Austin and Rock because their matches were great, it was their personalities/characters.  Most the people I know that are former wrestling fans from the late 90s don't watch MMA either, people have time to watch both if they are interested.  But I do agree that wrestling will not reach the same level as it did in the "Attitude Era", it may improve of course if they get another hot act but I don't see it getting as high as it once was.  But putting the blame on MMA seems off, I really don't think it being 'fake fighting' has anything at all to do with why the ratings went down.

I started watching MMA when their popularity was at its highest during Lesnar's time, as well as a bit before and a bit after. I'm a casual MMA fan at best and don't pay much attention to it anymore unless it's a huge fight (Silva v. Weidman for example). It's a combination of there being so much UFC content on TV thanks to the Fox deal that I actually find it more difficult to keep up with it since there's so much going on, as well as the watered down PPV's due to the lack of new compelling fighters and again, the Fox deal featuring fights normally reserved for PPV.

 

I think that much like how WWF/E has been affected by WCW (and ECW to a degree) closing, UFC has been impacted by Pride (and Strikeforce to a degree) closing. It seems as though the potential "dream fights" are almost gone and now you rarely have a debuting UFC fighter with a lot of buzz surrounding him since he hasn't been fighting on a major stage.

 

I could be dead wrong since like I said, I'm a casual MMA fan at best, but that's the impression I'm under.

[Antacular]

There's something to be said about having no rival organization for UFC to build "dream matches" with, absolutely. But the idea that almost weekly cards is overexposure is nonsense. You watch 4 Raws a month and 1 PPV/special/whatever, and you're likely to see more-or-less the SAME 10-12 guys each week. The average MMA fighter fights, what, 4x a YEAR at most? There's no linearity between fight cards, you can skip one or two or only watch the ones you want without "missing" something. The same can't be said of WWE.

[Brian Fowler]

That's also the downside for MMA/UFC though.  The top draws only fight 3-5 times a year, whereas WWE has them virtually every week barring injury.  Which might be why RAW consistently does significantly better tv ratings than UFC, whereas ppv buyrates are a different story.

[Antacular]

Point.

[Elsalvajeloco]

It's not so much the # of fights or keeping people from being overexposed as it is people believing in the gimmicks. I don't need to see people with a belt to know they're the best in the world, but the pro wrestling and boxing mentality over several decades has embedded it in people's minds to associate those people as the best. The term "pound-for-pound" was created for Sugar Ray Robinson several decades ago and now it's used as the main marketing tool in combat sports. The fact the UFC uses it for every PPV almost has watered down the concept in the same way the WWE has watered down stuff. Boxing did it in the 80s with the IBF belt and the 90s with the WBO belt. So instead of having a big two, you have a big four. You can train viewers to accept it, but it doesn't mean they have to like it.

 

We are in the era of diminishing returns. The fact the two highest bought PPVs (both boxing) are considered disappointments at 750,000 and 850,000-900,000 buys speaks volumes. No one is buying boxing (or MMA for that matter) shows to see the best guys. Mayweather and Pacquiao haven't been in their primes since 2009 at the LATEST, but they have the Undertaker gimmick. They show up and do what you expect for the allotted time period so the consumer is happy. When the formula began to change (Mayweather going to the less popular Showtime and Pac having iffy performances), the consumers stopped accepting the gimmick to the point where it affected the break even point. The only exception was Mayweather-Canelo at 1.8-2 million buys, but that was like having Undertaker against the person who he was going to give the torch to finally. However, WWE ran into the fact there was really no one built up to receive the torch. You had some good prospects, but no one at the desirable level. So you have WWE waiting and waiting until his body broke all the way down. It's too late now and you had the streak end against Brock. That's why I VEHEMENTLY disagreed with Meltzer on making the fight so soon. Boxing needed that shot in the arm. MMA isn't doing so hot either, but they still have fights they could make to do business (Rousey/Cristiane Cyborg, Silva-GSP, Velasquez-Jones).

 

Wrestling lost their shot in the arm in April of this year. They don't have one anymore. They have matches they can make, but people are buying Wrestlemania for the WM title/brand over that more than likely. WWE, being a public trading company, is too obsessed with things to turn the business around. That's why they have lied to investors so much. A shot in the arm doesn't mean turning the business around. It means a niche sport/entertainment based company can undoubtedly prove they are still semi-relevant. However, I can't act like Dana (and Lorenzo) would always tell the truth. Dana lies on a daily basis, but it's universally accepted because he is the promoter/figurehead of a private company. The same goes for Arum/duBoef and Schaefer/De La Hoya. Those six men lie religiously about the success of three powerful companies, but they haven't said "X match" or "X move towards this" is going to turn the business around like the WWE has. It's an insult to the investors and consumers. You're not going to undo several years of damage in one fiscal period. It's not happening, doc.

[Antacular]

I AM NOTHING BUT A STRAIGHT SHOOTER~~

[JonnyLaw]

I kind of hate to say it, but I think the biggest thing that we've got coming out of this note is the diversity of content idea. In fact, I think that's what they should partially be using the network for. They need to do a full press on things like Blackman's Bounties or the Superstars Do Funny Jobs stuff. They have all of these fleshed out, marketable characters. Bad News Barrett could be way more marketable in a non-wrestling setting than a wrestling one. You could have a show with Mark Henry and Cesaro going around the world having adventures and doing crazy feats of strength in a Man vs Food sort of way. Just challenges and that would probably appeal to general audiences way more than the two of them having an awesome match. Take the marketable elements and spin them out and downplay the wrestling side of things completely. That's the solution to this. 

 

They really should be throwing as much stuff on the Network as they can and seeing what sticks.  Why isn't the JBL and Cole Show on the Network?  It gets pimped more than almost anything aired on the Network.  Have guys film random stuff while backstage and put it on the Network.  Give guys 15 minute blocks of time overnight, Adult Swim style, and see what sticks.  Cesaro's Cafe.  Sarcastic Tweeting With Dolph Z.  Where in the World is Evan Borne?

[Matt D]

Research and Development. They've got very little to lose that they already aren't losing. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

How the fuck did we start talking about MMA? It hasn't proven to be anything more than a fad and I like MMA. I'm one of the guys that used to rent the old UFC VHS tapes way back when. It hit a peak a while ago and is now trending downward and it has to do with a lack of stars. It's the same thing with boxing or wrestling. Personalities sell. Two guys can have a great boxing match and the purists will eat it up but will the public give an ounce of shit if they don't know who either one of the fighters are? Mayweather might be a defensive wizard but it's his personality and undefeated streak that sell the fights.

[Elsalvajeloco]

How the fuck did we start talking about MMA? 

 

Because that's what we chose to talk about.

[Ace]

 

 

I'm saying it's full of assholes!

 

I was one of those assholes! We chanted for Teddy Long!

 

 

You're more of a Spaceball.

 

 

I can be both!

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

How the fuck did we start talking about MMA? 

 

Because that's what we chose to talk about.

 

 

They aren't a model in turning business around, though. Why aren't guys like Bones Jones household names? I'm not sure why but between MMA, boxing and wrestling nobody remembers how to market their stars.