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DVDVRMM: R2 Match 9: GOLDUST vs. IBUSHI

GOLDUST vs. IBUSHI  

105 members have voted

  1. 1. IBUSHIDUST vs GOLDBUSH



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The only Ibushi matches I liked this year were matches in which I thought the other wrestler was far superior. I guess it is to his credit that he is a good dance partner, but it's not enough to beat Goldust, who had a tremendous year by any standard. 

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Ibushi's fun to watch, and its not his fault he's a God amonst insects in the worst NJPW Jr Division ever.  

 

But no way did Ibushi have the year Goldust had.

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Personally I love Ibushi, one of the most exciting guys going. This has to be Goldust though.

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I love these polls because they keep reminding me of the awesome year Goldust had. And by awesome, I mean, better than nearly everyone on the WWE roster.

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What's the argument for Bryan over Goldust? What's the argument for Cesaro over Goldust? Harper over Goldust? I'm not saying there aren't arguments there, but I want to hear them. Dustin did almost everything perfectly in the ring during this period, for about half of it on a weekly basis. He updated his act. He worked smart. He worked hard. He was the best FIP in wrestling, getting even the worst crowds into matches. He was a great hot tag. He was awesome on the apron. He has some really good singles TV matches. 

 

I know people will go "IT was Bryan's year! Of course he was better."

 

Tell me how.

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What's the argument for Bryan over Goldust? What's the argument for Cesaro over Goldust? Harper over Goldust? I'm not saying there aren't arguments there, but I want to hear them. Dustin did almost everything perfectly in the ring during this period, for about half of it on a weekly basis. He updated his act. He worked smart. He worked hard. He was the best FIP in wrestling, getting even the worst crowds into matches. He was a great hot tag. He was awesome on the apron. He has some really good singles TV matches. 

 

I know people will go "IT was Bryan's year! Of course he was better."

 

Tell me how.

Literally everything you listed for Goldust applies to Bryan except he did it on a national stage for the entire year, in a main event spot for about 10 of those months and became at minimum the number two star in pro wrestling. Goldust had a great half a year but I don't think he and Bryan are in the same universe. To me Bryan and Cesaro are on one level and Goldust and Harper are a clear step below.

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Goldust had a better year but 44-0 is a joke. I would think the Nakamura G1 match alone might get Ibushi a few votes.

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 Goldust had a great half a year

This is important to note, and Matt, you'll have to start working on refuting it if you want Goldy over D-Bry.

 

Goldust started with the WWE in October. I specifically posted the two indy matches above to help create a context to his entire year, and would like to hear people's thoughts on that work compared to what he did in the WWE.

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Goldust had a better year but 44-0 is a joke. I would think the Nakamura G1 match alone might get Ibushi a few votes.

 

It got him out of the first round. That's good enough.

 

Anyway, I'll go ahead and say it. Someone who worked almost exclusively in tag matches shouldn't win this tournament. It's like voting a designated hitter MVP. Also, neither Bryan nor Cesaro have a spot as annoying as Goldust kneeling down and uppercutting his opponent as a back body drop counter.

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I feel like Dustin's more consistent in his half year than Bryan is in the full year. Bryan does things poorly. He stops selling when he's hitting his stuff. He's started to take more and more of his matches, often to the detriment of the matches. I think he actually relies on shtick a bit more and it's fine to do so because it's over, but if you watch a bunch of his matches, the yes kicks start to get a little old after a while. I feel like he doesn't wrestle overly different against different opponents. I thought the Cena match at Summerslam was very "video game-y" with a lot of excitement and not a ton of space and selling and story. And these are all nitpicks but when we're on the level we're talking about they're the only thing we can really bring up.

 

With Goldust, I can barely find any flaw in his work, and yes, tag work is different, but in some ways it's broader and more versatile too. For one thing, he's been playing both face in peril and hot tag, sometimes both in the same match, as well as doing shine superiority work. I fully admit I haven't seen the team hell no stuff from the time period since it first happened so I'd have to rewatch it.  "BIG MATCH FEEL" is probably my least favorite way to judge good wrestling though, so I think the idea that this tournament should just be about single guys is BS. 2013 in WWE, at least, was a tag team year. Even then, there is big match feel in a number of Dustin's matches. He's one of the only guys in the states who can draw even the worst crowd into almost every match he's in.

 

I honestly think Dustin's had enough weekly TV to offset the fact that Bryan has had more. It's not like we don't have a good sample size with him. We're not talking about Henry or Brock here.

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I've enjoyed Goldusts little mini run but just like Cesaro, Bryan has had a far longer run of quality and that puts him over both guys for me.

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So Goldust over Harper or maybe Zayn is a foregone conclusion? Goldust over Sami for sure. Goldust vs Harper I'm not so sure where my vote lands.

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I wouldn't take Goldust over Harper either. Harper was the best guy in the best mach of the voting period.

 

As for the Goldust/Cesaro argument, Goldust has 1 match that would make Cesaro's top 5.

 

Really, if you had me rank the WWE's big 5 from this year, it would be Cesaro, Rollins, Bryan, Harper, Goldust in that order.

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Goldust had a better year but 44-0 is a joke. I would think the Nakamura G1 match alone might get Ibushi a few votes.

 

Ah, this old chestnut.  When will people realize that margin of victory does not reflect upon the difference in quality between the two choices?  If everyone agreed Goldust was just slightest little bit better than Ibushi, it would be a shutout, despite the unanimity that it was close.  If half the board thought Goldust blew Ibushi away, and the other half thought Ibushi blew away Goldust, with no inbetween, it would be a tie, despite no one thinking it was a close call.

 

Seriously, I think this bugs me more than #hivemind.

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My voting strategy, where it pertains to the Uso of choice, Zayn, Goldust, et al. where this applies, is not so much just an issue of quality of one wrestler over another, it's also about issues of improvement.  And where Goldust is concerned, this is a guy who, at his age, could coast on gold face paint, the character, etc.  We could be watching Dustin go through the motions, resting on his laurels, cliche-cliche-cliche, doing what the NAO are doing now (trying to cling to being over off an outdated modus operandi).  But no, Goldust is busting out the offense, including a fucking Code Red for gracious sakes!  His sidetrip through the indies to where he is now is akin to Eddie's road to redemption through the indies to become what he was pre-mortem.  He gets my vote.  Now, how long can that improvement factor hold up?  Dunno, we'll see who's up next round.

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The most improved talking point sounds good, but it works better for Rollins.  Who is SO SO SO much better than I ever thought he would be. 

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What's the argument for Bryan over Goldust? What's the argument for Cesaro over Goldust? Harper over Goldust? I'm not saying there aren't arguments there, but I want to hear them. Dustin did almost everything perfectly in the ring during this period, for about half of it on a weekly basis. He updated his act. He worked smart. He worked hard. He was the best FIP in wrestling, getting even the worst crowds into matches. He was a great hot tag. He was awesome on the apron. He has some really good singles TV matches. 

 

I know people will go "IT was Bryan's year! Of course he was better."

 

Tell me how.

 

My argument for Cesaro is that Goldust did a great FIP act, but Cesaro worked with a variety of guys over this year in different roles; for example, he went in a couple weeks from the "prove it against me" ace vs. Zayn to the "up-and-comer trying to hang with and prove it against the ace" vs. Cena. Two different roles, two great performances. 

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It's a lot harder for me to vote Goldust over Cesaro or Harper, to be honest. I think both of those guys have had a better year than Bryan too. I'm not a big proponent of "Great matches," though. I much rather like to look at wrestlers' work over time and the small things they do and find patterns in their matches. So much of great matches is opportunity and opponent. Looking at the entire breadth of a wrestler's year, you learn a lot more about them.

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My voting strategy, where it pertains to the Uso of choice, Zayn, Goldust, et al. where this applies, is not so much just an issue of quality of one wrestler over another, it's also about issues of improvement. And where Goldust is concerned, this is a guy who, at his age, could coast on gold face paint, the character, etc. We could be watching Dustin go through the motions, resting on his laurels, cliche-cliche-cliche, doing what the NAO are doing now (trying to cling to being over off an outdated modus operandi). But no, Goldust is busting out the offense, including a fucking Code Red for gracious sakes! His sidetrip through the indies to where he is now is akin to Eddie's road to redemption through the indies to become what he was pre-mortem. He gets my vote. Now, how long can that improvement factor hold up? Dunno, we'll see who's up next round.

You voted Magnus over Ishii so I'll just skip that paragraph.

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Here's the thing... Even if this wasn't Goldust, do I think Ibushi is a sweet sixteen performer?  No. He had some good stuff but Top 16 would be a huge reach.

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My voting strategy, where it pertains to the Uso of choice, Zayn, Goldust, et al. where this applies, is not so much just an issue of quality of one wrestler over another, it's also about issues of improvement. And where Goldust is concerned, this is a guy who, at his age, could coast on gold face paint, the character, etc. We could be watching Dustin go through the motions, resting on his laurels, cliche-cliche-cliche, doing what the NAO are doing now (trying to cling to being over off an outdated modus operandi). But no, Goldust is busting out the offense, including a fucking Code Red for gracious sakes! His sidetrip through the indies to where he is now is akin to Eddie's road to redemption through the indies to become what he was pre-mortem. He gets my vote. Now, how long can that improvement factor hold up? Dunno, we'll see who's up next round.

You voted Magnus over Ishii so I'll just skip that paragraph.

I actually thought Magnus finally making main event status would have mattered ... I have shamed my family. Seppuku!

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