The Nature Boy Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 I've always been a huge Shawn Michaels fan but I found his second run babyface character to be SO boring. When Shawn got a chance to be heel during the Hogan feud and even a bit during the Taker feud, it was golden. I wish we had gotten more of that. Shawn had some good matches during his second run. His matches with Cena were good, the match with Shelton during the Gold Rush tournament and the Jericho matches were good. Even some of his Triple H stuff wasn't terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Most of the stuff with Trips was. That one come back match (Summerslam 2002?) was distrubing. It was like watching a snuff film the way they kept groping each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Most of the stuff with Trips was. That one come back match (Summerslam 2002?) was distrubing. It was like watching a snuff film the way they kept groping each other. I think a snuff film would have been more entertaining. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebbie Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Which one would've died at the end tho? My What If?... What if Stephanie actually wanted to put over other talent? That match with Brie was supposed to be Brie's big revenge and instead it was just to put over Stephanie and make Brie look like a total idiot, even tho she did all the work. Oi. But Stephanie should not be allowed to segments with other people. She's terrible at thinking about other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.J. Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Kane had a short championship run, and Booker was promoted as a former World champion. I think RVD and Benoit were really those guys who the IWC wanted to see break the glass ceiling. If Benoit had gone over for example Kane for the championship, I think it still means a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Which one would've died at the end tho? My What If?... What if Stephanie actually wanted to put over other talent? That match with Brie was supposed to be Brie's big revenge and instead it was just to put over Stephanie and make Brie look like a total idiot, even tho she did all the work. Oi. But Stephanie should not be allowed to segments with other people. She's terrible at thinking about other people. Stephanie put over Vickie Guerrero as she was leaving. That counts, right? Okay yeah, she's terrible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Here's a what if I thought of: I just read an interview with Tony Schiavone where he said that he thought of going to the WWF after WCW closed. What if he had? I imagine Schiavone calls the Booker T/Bagwell match. Where does he fit after that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 Which one would've died at the end tho? My What If?... What if Stephanie actually wanted to put over other talent? That match with Brie was supposed to be Brie's big revenge and instead it was just to put over Stephanie and make Brie look like a total idiot, even tho she did all the work. Oi. But Stephanie should not be allowed to segments with other people. She's terrible at thinking about other people. Stephanie put over Vickie Guerrero as she was leaving. That counts, right?Okay yeah, she's terrible. She shouldn't be an onscreen character at all. I don't know who told Vince putting his family in front of the camera was a good idea. Shane was good for taking bumps that nobody in his position needed to take. Otherwise, I don't want to see the owner's family as part of the show. I wouldn't want to see the Steinbrenner family in uniform and take the field at Yankee Stadium in place of their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The promoter putting their kid on TV is a time honored tradition that goes back to the Von Erich kids, David Crockett, Greg Gagne, Jeff Jarrett.......you get the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The promoter putting their kid on TV is a time honored tradition that goes back to the Von Erich kids, David Crockett, Greg Gagne, Jeff Jarrett.......you get the idea. I know it is; the mindset is the only people promoters can trust not to fuck them is their family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 The promoter putting their kid on TV is a time honored tradition that goes back to the Von Erich kids, David Crockett, Greg Gagne, Jeff Jarrett.......you get the idea. I know it is; the mindset is the only people promoters can trust not to fuck them is their family. And sometimes not even then. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Cibernetico Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 If Shawn Michaels never had the first half of his career, would that second run be enough to still consider him to be one the greatest and still HoF worthy? WWE HOF worthy absolutely. Vince was a HUGE Michaels mark back in the day. Plus the kayfabe resume holds up: Back-to-back RR wins Main-eventing and winning the WHC at Mania 12 The Montreal Screwjob Founding Member of DX WMX ladder match Causing the break up of The Rockers Being the reason for and being in the first HIAC Becoming the first gran slam champion after beating Bulldog for the European title Fourth WWF Triple Crown Champion Multiple tag and IC title reigns. Etc. Everything after 1998 was just the icing on the cake-- there is no way that HBK doesn't go into the WWE HOF based solely on his work from 1998 backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 You got the question backwards. It was if he only had 2002 onwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted November 17, 2014 Share Posted November 17, 2014 What DID HBK kayfabe accomplish in his second run? He won a World Title and a couple of Tag Team titles but he really didn't do very much otherwise. He was a consistent main eventer and was in a bunch of high profile matches so that has to account for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlk23 Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Main event at WM 23 and 26. Had the best match in arguably his last 4 WM. Best feud of the last 10 years vs. Jericho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 I've only seen two of the HBK/Y2J matches (Mania 19 and the ladder match) but neither were very good, imo. With only one exception I can think of (the bizarrely good Triple H match on the last RAW of 2003), pretty much every HBK singles match I personally liked in the 21st century had him at least somewhat working heel, and, more importantly, taking the heat segment offense. The Mania 23 match with Cena, the Flair match, both Undertaker matches... As far as kayfabe goes, he won at Mania 19, 22, and 24 (but one of those was against an elderly non-wrestler). He lost at 20, 21, 23, 25, and 26. If Mania is the big measuring stick, that's not a particularly good record (actually, his entire career mania record is pretty bad for Mr. Wrestlemania...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A.M.B. Posted November 18, 2014 Share Posted November 18, 2014 Don't wanna look through all these pages, but was Larry Sweeney mentioned yet? If he didn't kill himself I think he would be in WWE now, despite them not being big on managers (at least I think I heard that....somewhere) I think he'd have been a huge deal for them. His charisma couldn't be denied. RIP brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petey Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 I had this one pop into my head the other night after watching a bit of the Bockwinkel/Robinson match posted in the Omnibous thread. What if Nick Bockwinkle did the anti-NWO schitck that Larry Zbyszko did in WCW. Not so much as a commentator but they could have kept him as commissioner instead of putting a very bland babyface JJ Dillion in the spot. He would have been around 63 in 97 when Larry had the feud with Hall, Syxx, and Bischoff. We all know Nick kept himself in amazing shape and he still could very much go when he did that UWF-i exhibition with Billy Robinsion only a couple years earlier and the match with Dory Funk Jr. at Slamboree. As much as I like Larry, Nick Bockwinkle standing up for tradition would be so much more interesting since one he wouldn't resort to constantly calling the NWO the New World Oder. Doing the same same three matches with Syxx, Bischoff, and then Hall. Of course it was WCW so odds are things would have played out exactly as they did with Larry but at least we'd get some more Bockwinkel promos out of it. Wasn't the reason the Zbysko/Hall feud even happened was because they were close going back to the AWA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollywood Cibernetico Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 Yeah. Totally mis-read that. The second half of HBK's career? I would say 'no'. The guy had some good matches and was champion a number of times, but there was nothing HISTORIC he did. People talk about the WM25 match, but aside from that- what else? I don't even like the WM25 match but I know that millions do so that has to be a feather in HBK's cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 What if Brocks MMA career never takes of? Does he just go back to WWE or does he have to spend time else where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurningBeard Posted November 19, 2014 Share Posted November 19, 2014 he tries out for baseball. Then rugby as a prop-forward which he's okay at when he has size on his side. Then he gets takes a few too many big hits from some New Zealanders and realises he doesn't like it so goes back to WWE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted November 21, 2014 Share Posted November 21, 2014 What if Brocks MMA career never takes of? Does he just go back to WWE or does he have to spend time else where? He'd have probably given football a second try, failed at that, worked a little in japan then come back to WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Yeah. Totally mis-read that. The second half of HBK's career? I would say 'no'. The guy had some good matches and was champion a number of times, but there was nothing HISTORIC he did. People talk about the WM25 match, but aside from that- what else? I don't even like the WM25 match but I know that millions do so that has to be a feather in HBK's cap. won the first Elimination Chamber (Survivor Series 2002). won the World Heavyweight Championship (same event). re-formed D-X and won the tag team titles with HHH. won the tag team titles with John Cena. won "Match of the Year" Slammy twice: 2008 (Ric Flair) and 2009 (Undertaker) i don't know if that's HoF worthy or not, but it's pretty much all of his kayfabe accomplishments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianS81177 Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 What if Jake Roberts hadn't left the WWF to go to WCW when he did? With the mass exodus of all the muscle heads because of the steroid investigation, he (arguably) would have been one of their highest profile guys and could have gotten some PPV main events and possibly a world title run out of it. Would he have, or was he too far gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 What if Jake Roberts hadn't left the WWF to go to WCW when he did? With the mass exodus of all the muscle heads because of the steroid investigation, he (arguably) would have been one of their highest profile guys and could have gotten some PPV main events and possibly a world title run out of it. Would he have, or was he too far gone? Maybe Intercontinental, but I don't think Vince or his surrogates would have trusted Jake to be a main event guy. Jake rekindling his feud with Savage in 92 would have been amazing though. Maybe it would have led to a cage match at Summerslam 92 instead of Savage/Warrior. As long as Ric Flair was there I don't see anyone else being the heel champion of the company. Jake winning the title sometime after Summerslam and then losing the match to Bret could have been interesting though. Did Bret and Jake ever have a one on one ever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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