SECRET SANTO 2023~!

[Curt McGirt]

Got a kick out of that fancam. It starting with panning to a crowd sign reading "IS TOMMY RICH DRUNK YET?" was just perfect. Kanemura was skinny! Or at least, he wasn't wearing that 4XL shirt that made him look like he weighed a thousand pounds. Only black mark was the always classy ECW fans with the "you suck dick" chant. 

[Casey]

I’m glad people enjoyed the fancam, lol. I honestly only picked it because it was an ECW fancam from Nashville, which is close to where I live. And ECW house shows are fun to watch. Thanks for reviewing @Gordi the former AEW fan! PS Awesome/Kobashi is a lot better but it’s also during Mike Awesome’s peak and Kobashi is still mobile. And yeah, Megumi Kudo is just fucking awesome. That’s all, that’s the comment about it. Love her to death. I’m gonna get started on these Bull matches tomorrow. 

@The Natural

BURIED ALIVE:

Undertaker vs Mankind

I jotted down some notes during this. My biggest gripe has nothing to do with the match: they censor stuff like chairshots, spike and steps attacks on Peacock. That half second pause thing. I hate hate hate it. For a 30 minute single segment on Peacock, this thing is really only like 15 minutes long. The ending with a bunch of heels trying to quickly pour dirt on Undertaker is kind of hilarious. I don’t know the context for the Executioner - I’m pretty sure it was Bam Bam Gordy - but man, what a terrible gimmick at first glance. Anyway, this is purely a showcase of how 1) how much these two dislike each other in kayfabe, as it’s made clear with some of these crazy spots (for the time). I always thought Undertaker doing jumping over the top rope to the outside was crazy, but doing it from the top turnbuckle to the outside is nuts for him. I honestly popped for them doing small packages on the dirt mound and then they rolled off, lmao. It was a good little brawl, but nothing I’d exactly write home about. For all that gets said about Mankind being one of his best opponents, I’m not sure I’d agree. It’s just that Foley kills himself over and over for anyone he’s in the ring with, and makes them look like a star.

MIND GAMES:

Mankind versus Shawn Michaels

So, yeah, this is great shit. Wow. It really sucks it ended in a DQ, but I guess neither could afford to lose at this point in time. Makes me wonder if there’s a Sid/HBK versus Mankind/Vader match on RAW or something. I’d like to see that. A four way would be even better. Anyway. Easily one of the best Foley or Shawn matches I’ve ever seen, but the finish really puts a damper on it.

Is this before or after Buried Alive? I don’t remember JR being on the call for that match, but he’s here. And Curt Hennig? Why? Is this another case of Vince trying to take a perfectly good wrestler who wants to be active and turning him into a commentator, like Savage?

So many cool spots and sequences in this match. To start off with, there’s a moment early on where they’re in the corner and it seems like some miscommunication happened. Mankind slaps Shawn, stuff happens, then HBK ends up stomping him right in his mush. Full on contact. Then Mankind FLOORS him with what looked like a real punch. Stuff like Shawn jumping off a chair to kick another chair back into Mankind’s face who is on the top rope, the early spot in the match with the protective mats: a dropkick into it while Mankind is pulling it up and it’s blocking his vision and a jumping stomp. A cool looking chicken wing type move that Mankind tries to turn into a mandible claw. Avoiding the Sweet Chin Music by DIVING out of the ring instead of just rolling out.

Theres a point where Shawn suplexes Mankind and the inside of his knee hits the top part of the stairs. I don’t know whose idea it was, but there was several minutes of legwork after that and I appreciated it. No way Shawn could have seen that from his vantage point of the suplex, but whatever. A cool powerbomb type setup turned into a stun gun on Shawn.

Classic hangman rope move from Mankind, and does the claw while he’s trapped in it. Yikes! Continued legwork, and then Shawn transitions into handwork to weaken the claw. Love that. Shawn is FAST off the ropes with a flying forearm, Jesus Christ. And yeah, the DQ finish is garbage but whatever. 

[Curt McGirt]

7 hours ago, Casey said:

they censor stuff like chairshots, spike and steps attacks on Peacock. That half second pause thing. I hate hate hate it.

You gotta be kidding me.

I guess wrestling is held to a *stifles laughter* higher standard than an R rated movie on there

[The Natural]

8 hours ago, Casey said:

I’m glad people enjoyed the fancam, lol. I honestly only picked it because it was an ECW fancam from Nashville, which is close to where I live. And ECW house shows are fun to watch. Thanks for reviewing @Gordi the former AEW fan! PS Awesome/Kobashi is a lot better but it’s also during Mike Awesome’s peak and Kobashi is still mobile. And yeah, Megumi Kudo is just fucking awesome. That’s all, that’s the comment about it. Love her to death. I’m gonna get started on these Bull matches tomorrow. 

@The Natural

BURIED ALIVE:

Undertaker vs Mankind

I jotted down some notes during this. My biggest gripe has nothing to do with the match: they censor stuff like chairshots, spike and steps attacks on Peacock. That half second pause thing. I hate hate hate it. For a 30 minute single segment on Peacock, this thing is really only like 15 minutes long. The ending with a bunch of heels trying to quickly pour dirt on Undertaker is kind of hilarious. I don’t know the context for the Executioner - I’m pretty sure it was Bam Bam Gordy - but man, what a terrible gimmick at first glance. Anyway, this is purely a showcase of how 1) how much these two dislike each other in kayfabe, as it’s made clear with some of these crazy spots (for the time). I always thought Undertaker doing jumping over the top rope to the outside was crazy, but doing it from the top turnbuckle to the outside is nuts for him. I honestly popped for them doing small packages on the dirt mound and then they rolled off, lmao. It was a good little brawl, but nothing I’d exactly write home about. For all that gets said about Mankind being one of his best opponents, I’m not sure I’d agree. It’s just that Foley kills himself over and over for anyone he’s in the ring with, and makes them look like a star.

MIND GAMES:

Mankind versus Shawn Michaels

So, yeah, this is great shit. Wow. It really sucks it ended in a DQ, but I guess neither could afford to lose at this point in time. Makes me wonder if there’s a Sid/HBK versus Mankind/Vader match on RAW or something. I’d like to see that. A four way would be even better. Anyway. Easily one of the best Foley or Shawn matches I’ve ever seen, but the finish really puts a damper on it.

Is this before or after Buried Alive? I don’t remember JR being on the call for that match, but he’s here. And Curt Hennig? Why? Is this another case of Vince trying to take a perfectly good wrestler who wants to be active and turning him into a commentator, like Savage?

So many cool spots and sequences in this match. To start off with, there’s a moment early on where they’re in the corner and it seems like some miscommunication happened. Mankind slaps Shawn, stuff happens, then HBK ends up stomping him right in his mush. Full on contact. Then Mankind FLOORS him with what looked like a real punch. Stuff like Shawn jumping off a chair to kick another chair back into Mankind’s face who is on the top rope, the early spot in the match with the protective mats: a dropkick into it while Mankind is pulling it up and it’s blocking his vision and a jumping stomp. A cool looking chicken wing type move that Mankind tries to turn into a mandible claw. Avoiding the Sweet Chin Music by DIVING out of the ring instead of just rolling out.

Theres a point where Shawn suplexes Mankind and the inside of his knee hits the top part of the stairs. I don’t know whose idea it was, but there was several minutes of legwork after that and I appreciated it. No way Shawn could have seen that from his vantage point of the suplex, but whatever. A cool powerbomb type setup turned into a stun gun on Shawn.

Classic hangman rope move from Mankind, and does the claw while he’s trapped in it. Yikes! Continued legwork, and then Shawn transitions into handwork to weaken the claw. Love that. Shawn is FAST off the ropes with a flying forearm, Jesus Christ. And yeah, the DQ finish is garbage but whatever. 

The Undertaker vs. Mankind: I didn't know there was that kind of censorship on Peacock. Guessing the same applies to the YouTube version. I didn't watch it as I still remember the match as a kid. The Undertaker does some wild shit as you brought up.

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind: I love this match even with the DQ finish. Has to be the best match ever to end on a DQ yeah? The miscommunication spot was planned to get people talking as Shawn Michaels was known to be a twat when things didn't go his way, most famously vs. Vader at SummerSlam 1996. Yes, the Mind Games match takes place one month before Buried Alive. One of my favourite things about the match is how Michaels goes from working the leg to changing his attack to the Mandible Claw. You're right this is one of Shawn Michaels best matches and Mick Foley's. I'd only rate Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker Hell in a Cell at In Your House 18: Badd Blood and Shawn Michaels vs. The Undertaker WrestleMania XXV ahead of it. Mick Foley's best match followed by Cactus Jack vs. Triple H at Royal Rumble 2000.

Edited December 12, 2023 by The Natural

[Curt McGirt]

Always thought it was funny that Foley in his biography said that Michaels was unsure if the match would go well. You high motherfucker, you in there with a ring general

[AxB]

Can I jump in for next week? Even the numbers up again?

[The Natural]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:06 PM, Matt D said:

Maybe something that's not from a PPV but more of a TV match. Otherwise, whatever you like.

As for you I'll give you a choice. Familiar or less familiar. Bret's a guy who had some disappointing matches against Japanese talent over the years. This is one that I think is one of his better ones, against George Takano. Less "Exhibition"-y than what we'd get against, let's say Tiger Mask II..
 

And if you want something more familiar but still cool due to the locale, here's the Hart Foundation as "de facto heels" in 1991 against the Rockers from right before that in Japan.

I can't upload it to youtube, so here's the file itself.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/14wLOXdr1dVPXhgN0dapTSm19C0-hTiDi/view?usp=sharing

 

 

On 12/10/2023 at 3:35 PM, The Natural said:

Thank you for both of these. Two Bret Hart matches I haven't seen.

Any wrestlers in particular you want? I've come up with one of your matches.

Bret Hart vs. George Nakano.

We get an aggressive Bret Hart here without a clean break and twice throwing George Nakano outside the ring to use said area. This match reminds you how apt The Excellence of Execution name is for Bret, his version of moves are the best. Unusual you see Bret miss his patented middle rope elbow. Didn't expect Bret Hart to lose as 1991 to go on to be a breakthrough year for Bret winning the WWF Intercontinental Championship vs. Mr. Perfect at SummerSlam. What level was George Nakano at that time? It's my first match of his. Good match.

Hart Foundation vs. Rockers.

Jim Neidhart knocks Shawn Michaels and Marty Jannetty down with a double clothesline which the Rockers get up too quick from. Extended heat segment on Shawn Michaels. Bret Hart's the MVP of this match. Jannetty gets the tag and has to take Hart/Neidhart on while Michaels recover. Loved the finish as Michaels top rope crossbody is rolled through by Bret with all Bret's weight on Michaels shoulders and a tight hook of the leg gets the Hart Foundation the deserved win.

Thank you for both, Matt.

Edited December 13, 2023 by The Natural

[Curt McGirt]

It's George Takano, not Nakano. He was also The Cobra in various promotions. Kind of midgrade talent, did win the Junior title in NWA, WWF and NJPW. Started in Stampede so familiar with Bret, Dynamite, Davey Boy. He had what was regarded as the worst match on the NJPW '80s set with Takada (I personally recall one even worse but don't remember which) as the Cobra. He also had what I regarded as the most underrated match of the set vs. Don Arakawa. Better under his own name than the hood, too. 

[Zimbra]

On 12/10/2023 at 3:34 PM, porksweats said:

Hey @Zimbra

Saw you said you were watching alot of Bockwinkel earlier, hopefully you haven't seen this one!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIZvCgiOqzQ

I haven't, looking forward to seeing how this works out.

For you: Chavo Sr vs Rick Steiner from '86

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=n2qPwY85Xcc

[Casey]

@Gordi the former AEW fan

So I actually have less time than I thought this week, and I’ve seen all of those Bull matches it turns out. Except for the Monster Ripper match. So…

BULL NAKANO VERSUS MONSTER RIPPER

We needed Ripper in WWF instead of Bertha Faye, goddamn. Bull’s entrance here is fucking awesome, what a badass. Bull gets color like 2 minutes into the match, and Ripper is a madwoman just throwing around whole sections of audience seating. They stop the count once Ripper gets back in the ring for some reason? I love that Bull seems very reluctant after the crowd brawl to get into the ring with Ripper. This is all Monster Ripper, with Bull playing the undying babyface. The crowd comes ALIVE with Bull’s comeback, which is just chairshots. More crowd brawling and now Ripper is bleeding. NUNCHUCKS! Bull really has one of the best diving leg drops, man. A thing of beauty, which I’m sure wasn’t easy on her body. Headbutt from Ripper to Bull’s asscheek, lol. Bull tries for a German suplex but can’t do it, and Ripper just falls onto Bull’s stomach - but they retry it and Bull gets it. Ripper with a NICE sit out powerbomb, but Bull gets the win with the flipping leg drop aka the move Booker T totally stole years later. This was fun brawl - more like a fight, really. But that’s usually Bull Nakano in a nutshell. Nothing looks technically pretty, but everything looks like it hurts and is dangerous.

Not anything that’s ever going to be considered a classic or anything, but it’s a really fun match to sit down and watch for around 20 minutes and not have to be too invested in keeping your eyes on the screen.

If I have time tonight I might randomly pick one of those other three matches and watch/review it. I’m leaning towards the Hokuto match.

[Curt McGirt]

Why would you change a wrestler name as cool as MONSTER RIPPER? Just what is wrong with Vince?

[onelegbrynn]

Finally got around to watching the match Curt assigned me for round 2:

Shinya Hashimoto vs. Genichiro Tenryu (1998 G1 Climax)

Big beefy dudes just wailing away on each other without a care in the world is something I love watching in pro wrestling and this fit the bill. When I watched Kobashi vs. Sasaki for the first time a long time ago, I though it was the wildest thing ever. This may have eclipsed it though. From the beginning, these two pulled no punches and just laid into each other with chops. Then at one point Hashimoto had Tenryu in a head scissors and it looked like he was trying to pry his head off his shoulders. The brutality and violence continued until the end when Hashimoto pulls out the win with both men absolutely exhausted. What an absolute WAR!

[Matt D]

I'll draw the next round later on today.

It's been a crazy week (after the end of a crazy few) but Paul gave me Rhino vs Christian in the goofy goofy TNA cage and Bret vs Kid which is, if you had made me guess, exactly what I thought Paul might give me. And I'm cool with it. I watched both. I have seen Bret vs Kid many times and will write it up more fully at some point. I think it was on a comp tape some guy on Prodigy gave me back in 98 or so which is when I first encountered it. This time around, the trappings of mid 90s WWF were what stood out the most: the entrance, Savage on commentary saying he still had it, Owen coming out beforehand, etc. The other thing I'd mention is Bret's facial expression of begrudging admiration after the first Kid move. It's not something he was so blatant about often. That sort of over the top emoting is much more of a Shawn thing, but I liked it in the moment. 

A little more detail for the Christian match. This was from 05, on the night Angle had his first match and it's just an insane stip match. Six sided cage. With barbed wire on top. With a bunch of matches setting it up where people could "Win" things like a straightjacket or the key (rhino) or chairs or bolt cutters (Christian). The build here was all about Christian concussing Rhino over and over again which would never be an angle now. In some ways it was kind of gripping. You couldn't escape the cage without dealing with the wire, right? But on the other hand, all of the added gimmicks just kind of put it over the top in that unique TNA way. I kind of didn't mind it. I like the idea of a bunch of logical matches leading to the match, and they somehow made it work in the story. Rhino got the key but then threw it away to trap Christian with him. He got the straightjacket but then Christian got to use it to really take over. Christian had the chair and made a mistake going back to use it when he could have won the match. And that should have been his hubris that led to Rhino's win but it's TNA so it just led to the comeback and Christian winning after he got gored through the cage. Just a bit too much overbooking. IT has to be that balance of being so much that it gets over the absurdity of a little TNA booking and works but not so much that it comes back around again. It did here. So credit to them for it almost working and credit for Christian for some of the individual spots. We miss the transition and also Christian getting fully bloodied so that's a shame (Commercial breaks without PiP, what a world). In general, in a gimmick match like this, it was hard to figure out just how good Christian was or not in 05. I don't think he fully gets it becomes the savant until a few years later. He's there by 09 but I just haven't watched this stuff so I don't know. I'd be curious to figure it out at some point.

Thanks Paul. I draw later on today.

[Matt D]

Week 3:

Usually I do a pretty good job of keeping track of who's given someone a pick and who hasn't but with AxB joining up we're into the 12 person range so it's all I can do to avoid dupes now. Let me try here.

@John E. Dynamite
@AxB
----
@Sammo~!
@Casey
----
@Curt McGirt
@The Natural
----
@Gordi the former AEW fan
@porksweats
----
@brynn9292
Matt D
----
@Zimbra
@HeadCheese

Remember, as we get deeper into the month, everyone make sure to get their partner a match ASAP and get to your review whenever you can.

Brynn, usual rules apply. Just give me something you like that you want to see my take on.

For your match, I've been trying to get read for Choshu to come back to New Japan in my 87 watching and this is his last match in All Japan before it goes and it goes really hard. You can sort of see the evolution of Jumbo from the start of the Choshu infection to this point and the emergence of Gladiator/Grumpy Jumbo, plus the growth of Yatsu too into what he would be from 87-89 as he really hangs. Plus it's not that long relatively.

 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

@porksweats in "Honor" of some pretty enjoyable ROH PPV pre-show action, here's some olde schoole ROH full matches featuring A-Pre-W and Before They Were Superstars type interesting/unexpected match-ups. Take your pick!I

As always, no WWE or NXT for ole Gordlow, please. I am kind of in the mood for Big Meaty Men Smashing Meat Hoss Fight Kaiju Battle type action, but I am not going to insist on it, if you had something else in mind.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Gordi the former AEW fan

[Casey]

@Sammo~!

I like weird, interesting match-ups. Specifically shit from Japan.

Some jobber named Dice Morgan and a future HOFer Scott Hall versus Shinya Hashimoto & Masa Saito. It doesn’t even start until 7 minutes in, by the way. It’s just so funny to me seeing Undertaker, about a half of a year away from being who we all know now, taking stiff kicks and punches from Hashimoto. I’ve got no clue if Hall was using the Razor’s Edge at this time in his career, maybe as a transition move, but he gives one to Hashimoto that looks like a struggle and, while it doesn’t have the smoothness as it later would, still looks pretty devastating as far as moves go. Maybe even moreso.

[porksweats]

7 hours ago, Gordi the former AEW fan said:

@porksweats in "Honor" of some pretty enjoyable ROH PPV pre-show action, here's some olde schoole ROH full matches featuring A-Pre-W and Before They Were Superstars type interesting/unexpected match-ups. Take your pick!I

As always, no WWE or NXT for ole Gordlow, please. I am kind of in the mood for Big Meaty Men Smashing Meat Hoss Fight Kaiju Battle type action, but I am not going to insist on it, if you had something else in mind.

All 3 of these sound great! In exchange, I want to make sure I thoroughly meet the Big Meat Hoss Fight standards, so here's 3 that could fit the bill

 

First, Rhino in NOAH back in 2019!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzZp1Cz9Yw0

Second option - One of my favorite Roadblock matches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKmOHK8NFZM

Third Option - A Trios with some Giants on each side!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLt3rQQELuw

[AxB]

So, John E. Dynamite, I understand you like older stuff, and you like Dynamite. So, this from 1976 might be up your alley:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzOhVoPUaW4

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

6 hours ago, porksweats said:

All 3 of these sound great! In exchange, I want to make sure I thoroughly meet the Big Meat Hoss Fight standards, so here's 3 that could fit the bill

 

First, Rhino in NOAH back in 2019!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzZp1Cz9Yw0

Second option - One of my favorite Roadblock matches

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKmOHK8NFZM

Third Option - A Trios with some Giants on each side!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLt3rQQELuw

Just like with the weird/interesting/violent trio of matches that Casey gave me last week, I wasn't intending to watch all three of these right away. But, like a kid in a candy store (or Gordlow at a Chinese buffet) I just couldn't help myself. Three really fun confections here. Pure pleasure without too much nutrition or fibre. DEFINITELY three matches I would NEVER have chosen for myself.

Shibata, Inoue, & Giant Singh vs Wagner Jr, Shocker, & Giant Silva

This match is *literally* unwatchable! I don't mean that the wrestling is the drizzling shits (though, presumably, some of it is) but that the video quality *completely* craps out every few seconds during the match. I will add screen shots later to illustrate this. I have to use one browser to type, if I want paragraph breaks, and another to insert pictures or videos or tag people. 

So, somtimes you get this visual, with sound:

And sometimes this, with no sound at all:

And it's literally every few seconds once the match gets going, which really makes it hard to even guess what's going on.

The introductions and ring entrances, however, are quite watchable and very entertaining in their own right.

El Puma Inoue comes out first and... It's Wataru Inoue! I had totally forgotten about him. His legs look great here. Really muscular. I assume he was really enjoying the more liberal sales policies of the pharmacies in Mexico while he was on excursion. Then Shibata comes out and his entrance music is "Looks That Kill" by Motley Crue! I find that really amusing. Later, Dr. Wagner comes out to "Bad Medicine" setting this up as a battle between The Crue and Bon Jovi. In 2002! Giant Singh is aka Great Khali. Not my personal favourite giant wrestler. I believe Black Cat is acting as Hype Man for this team. Which is awesome.

Wagner Jr and Shocker are both accompanied to the ring by a pair of smoking hawt women. For whatever reason, Giant Silva is not.

Perhaps WWE Universe residents primarily remember Silva as an Oddity? I personally revere Bigfoot for his time as a Pride Freakshow Fight mainstay and a member of the Hustle Roster. I think his team with Mark Coleman is probably the pro wrestling tag team that I'd least like to get into a shoot fight with. Or maybe the Colossal Connection.

Shocker looks a bit like, and carries himself like, a Mexican Cody Rhodes. Never noticed that before. 

I bet it was an interesting match! The video clears up briefly around the 16-minute mark, when the two giants are in the ring. Which seems unfair to the viewer. But we do get to see Bigfoot Silva do a Superfly Splash onto Singh, which is a very impressive visual. I think the Mostly-Mexican team won with Shocker and The Doctor hitting their big moves in the ring while the giants brawled on the outside. That seems like the right way to book this.

From the tiny glimpses we get of Shibata, he seems to be wrestling nothing like the Shibata that we all know and love now.

Rhino vs Masa Kitamiya

What are the rules for Spelling Rhyno with a "y" or with an "i"?

I like to imagine him going into a coffee shop and saying "It's Rhyno with a 'y'" and they spell it "Rhinoy"

Anyway, the reason I would never pick this for myself is that I have near-zero nostalgia for ECW. I was living in The Czech Republic while that particular revolution was going on. I enjoyed several of the matches I saw when I got into tape trading after returning to Canada, but also found a good deal of it (the general attitude toward women, in particular) pretty off-putting. So ECW has never been 'my thing' in particular.

Though, I mean, Sabu and Cactus and Terry Funk all rule. Obviously.

I am predisposed to like Rhyno because we have the same birthday. He's exactly ten years younger than me. Also he's short and thick. Like me. And Bodyguard. And Quiet Storm. And Kensuke. And Masa Kitamiya. And Jeff Cobb! I wanna make a comeback, wear a Cobb/Rhino type singlet, form a faction of relatively short and thick guys who call ourselves The Choad Warriors.

I am predisposed to like Masa Kitamiya because he's very roughly my size (shorter and more roidy-looking, but close enough) so I can imagine "oh, that's what I might look like in the ring against that guy" while watching him (also feel that way about Kensuke...)

Also, I like that he likes Masa Saito. Good and interesting choice, there. 

This match definitely doesn't overstay its welcome. They run into each other full speed, slug each other hard, both of them get to show off their strength and toughness, each of them sells a little for the other (but not too much), Rhino hits a couple of power moves, blocks the Saito Suplex... Then, boom! Gore! And that's all you need, in my opinion.

It's in my beloved furitsu taiikukan so I am a little disappointed the Osaka crowd didn't get more into this one. I think it might have been part of the 2019 N1. Jon Moxley, Jeff Cobb, and Lance Archer were in the G1 that year so as usual, lately, New Japan got more of my attention than NOAH. 

I could have seen this live. Too bad. I would really have enjoyed that.

Roadblock vs Goldberg

I was in The Czech Republic during the rise of Goldberg. I went back to Canada for a summer when he and Stone Cold were at their peaks and the Monday Night Wars were in full swing, and I was pleased to see two muscular bald guys with little beards on top of the pro wrestling world!

Nice to have a look back at the beginning of the Goldberg experiment. 

Due to my general lack of ECW nostalgia, I had basically no opinion of Roadblock going into this. Now, I have an opinion: He fills a great and unappreciated and sadly often missing role here. An ENORMOUS, physically ugly dude with a bad body who is nimble enough in the ring to (one presumes) believably squash lower card guys and also bump for the guys you want to put over. 

(EDIT: I was actually under the impression that Roadblock was the same big guy who was 911 in ECW. Apparently not! Thanks for pointing that out, below, Casey. I am wildly underinformed - and, mostly, disinterested - when it comes to the pro wrestling that was on TV and popular while I was living in Europe). 

Roadblock is *ideal* in this role here. Goldberg hitting the jackhammer on this dude is legitimately impressive. And I'd still feel bad for the next lower-card guy that Roadblock got in the ring with even though he was convincingly beaten here. I guess Lance Archer plays a similar role in AEW these days (though Archer has a good body). 

Guys like that are super valuable. Matches like this are so much fun.

 

Thank you, Porksweats! I had a blast watching those. Even the one I couldn't actually see.

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Gordi the former AEW fan

[Casey]

I think you’re confusing Roadblock with Roadkill although Roadblock did work in W*ING, that’s interesting.

[Ace]

Bigfoot Silva is an entirely different person from Giant Silva, as well.

 

[Casey]

3 hours ago, Ace said:

Bigfoot Silva is an entirely different person from Giant Silva, as well.

 

Giant Silva competed in PRIDE, though. He went 2-6 in his time there.

[The Natural]

On 12/17/2023 at 1:27 PM, Matt D said:

I'll draw the next round later on today.

It's been a crazy week (after the end of a crazy few) but Paul gave me Rhino vs Christian in the goofy goofy TNA cage and Bret vs Kid which is, if you had made me guess, exactly what I thought Paul might give me. And I'm cool with it. I watched both. I have seen Bret vs Kid many times and will write it up more fully at some point. I think it was on a comp tape some guy on Prodigy gave me back in 98 or so which is when I first encountered it. This time around, the trappings of mid 90s WWF were what stood out the most: the entrance, Savage on commentary saying he still had it, Owen coming out beforehand, etc. The other thing I'd mention is Bret's facial expression of begrudging admiration after the first Kid move. It's not something he was so blatant about often. That sort of over the top emoting is much more of a Shawn thing, but I liked it in the moment. 

A little more detail for the Christian match. This was from 05, on the night Angle had his first match and it's just an insane stip match. Six sided cage. With barbed wire on top. With a bunch of matches setting it up where people could "Win" things like a straightjacket or the key (rhino) or chairs or bolt cutters (Christian). The build here was all about Christian concussing Rhino over and over again which would never be an angle now. In some ways it was kind of gripping. You couldn't escape the cage without dealing with the wire, right? But on the other hand, all of the added gimmicks just kind of put it over the top in that unique TNA way. I kind of didn't mind it. I like the idea of a bunch of logical matches leading to the match, and they somehow made it work in the story. Rhino got the key but then threw it away to trap Christian with him. He got the straightjacket but then Christian got to use it to really take over. Christian had the chair and made a mistake going back to use it when he could have won the match. And that should have been his hubris that led to Rhino's win but it's TNA so it just led to the comeback and Christian winning after he got gored through the cage. Just a bit too much overbooking. IT has to be that balance of being so much that it gets over the absurdity of a little TNA booking and works but not so much that it comes back around again. It did here. So credit to them for it almost working and credit for Christian for some of the individual spots. We miss the transition and also Christian getting fully bloodied so that's a shame (Commercial breaks without PiP, what a world). In general, in a gimmick match like this, it was hard to figure out just how good Christian was or not in 05. I don't think he fully gets it becomes the savant until a few years later. He's there by 09 but I just haven't watched this stuff so I don't know. I'd be curious to figure it out at some point.

Thanks Paul. I draw later on today.

You know me too well, Matt picking exactly what you thought I would. That opening spot to Bret Hart/123 Kid is not just one of my favourite of Bret's, it's any match with Bret's surprise and acknowledgment.

I wasn't sure if you'd seen Christian Cage/Rhino before and I know what Christian Cage means to you. Had to be the bloodiest Christian Cage match ever.

You're welcome for the picks, Matt. Cheers xxx.

[The Natural]

On 12/17/2023 at 3:12 PM, Matt D said:

Week 3:

Usually I do a pretty good job of keeping track of who's given someone a pick and who hasn't but with AxB joining up we're into the 12 person range so it's all I can do to avoid dupes now. Let me try here.

@John E. Dynamite
@AxB
----
@Sammo~!
@Casey
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@Curt McGirt
@The Natural
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@Gordi the former AEW fan
@porksweats
----
@brynn9292
Matt D
----
@Zimbra
@HeadCheese

Remember, as we get deeper into the month, everyone make sure to get their partner a match ASAP and get to your review whenever you can.

Brynn, usual rules apply. Just give me something you like that you want to see my take on.

For your match, I've been trying to get read for Choshu to come back to New Japan in my 87 watching and this is his last match in All Japan before it goes and it goes really hard. You can sort of see the evolution of Jumbo from the start of the Choshu infection to this point and the emergence of Gladiator/Grumpy Jumbo, plus the growth of Yatsu too into what he would be from 87-89 as he really hangs. Plus it's not that long relatively.

 

Anything in particular you after, Curt? Do's and dont's? Cheers.

[onelegbrynn]

On 12/17/2023 at 10:12 AM, Matt D said:

Brynn, usual rules apply. Just give me something you like that you want to see my take on.

This was tough because I really wanted to give you something to sink your teeth into. Last year I did a rewatch of all the 2010 TNA PPVs plus some of the Impact episodes. This match was at the top of my list and probably one of my favorite TNA matches ever. 

https://youtu.be/OAeFp-NSpIs?si=t-IEcD37zR0K9pkn

And the link won't embed but it's the finale of the Motor City Machine Guns vs. Beer Money Best of 5 Series ... in a 2/3 Falls match from the August 9, 2010 episode of TNA Impact.