Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

November 2021 Wrestling Discussion


odessasteps
 Share

Recommended Posts

18 minutes ago, Hagan said:

This is a super interesting take....To watch wrestling and be completely indifferent to how business metrics influence everything we see onscreen is missing a huge part of the picture. 

oh, i completely agree. it can be very obvious when a show does and doesn't have big stars, and ratings/buy rates/attendance certainly reflect that. i will not argue that the bigger a star, the bigger the ratings/performance/opportunities/etc. That goes for movies, tv, sports, politics, comic books, magazines, instagram, and probably every sort of area where someone could even potentially be a star. 

I was more trying to think of examples where the fanbase goes so granularly at every point. The soap operas are an obvious parallel that i overlooked, but show me another fanbase that looks at TV ratings by the quarter hour and draws conclusions about who is/isn't "a draw". WWE Raw ain't going to get cancelled this year. or next. and they have virtually no chance of not getting a new TV deal next time their contracts end. So why do people look at its ratings EVERY WEEK? Hell, i even get the "it only garnered a 2.1? look how far it's fallen since 1998!" but that's more of a one-off thought than a recurring weekly epiphany. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, PetrolCB said:

It was acceptable in the 80s. It was acceptable at the tiiime.

Lol,  the amount of horrid behavior we justify with,  "it was a different time," never ceases to amaze me. Cocaine was not acceptable to anyone but other people who do cocaine. 

 

2 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

Music fandoms are obsessive about comparing streaming numbers and boosting artists to #1.

If you're in a discussion about music and sales is the only metric that the person can use to justify their opinion,  don't talk to that person about music. This is also how I feel about ratings. I don't really care how much something sells or how many people watch, that is completely and totally irrelevant to any discussion about what makes something enjoyable to me. Since my enjoyment is the only person's enjoyment I care about i only care whether or not I enjoy or appreciate any piece of art or entertainment. Michael Jackson sold more records than Prince,  but I like Prince better. I can tell you all the reasons why I like Prince better,  and the fact that millions more people bought Michael Jackson's music doesn't fucking matter. When people bring up ratings it makes me wonder why do they even care. Ratings say nothing about quality and I'm generally only interested in discussing quality when comparing one product to another. If Raw outgrew AEW 100:1, I'd still like AEW better. When I discuss wrestling,  I want to discuss what I enjoy, from my perspective and it doesn't matter if the rest of earth watched something else instead. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

He was a game changer for sure. He’s not on my top 10 but honestly the case could be made by someone and I would respect it. Great longevity too. I haven’t been keeping up with the wwe this last year, but last I remember he was putting on excellent matches with Andrade.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Something I've been wondering for awhile, does Rey Mysterio have a claim to be the GOAT?

Best week-to-week TV worker of the 21st century? That's no small thing. I wonder if it holds up against guys like Sheamus and Danielson.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I talk about wrestling much more openly now than I used to and most people at work will mention they used to like Rey Mysterio, John Cena or Sting. There are a couple of AEW fans at work, no one there watches WWE. One of my buddies still gets really quiet and talks to me in the corner about wrestling so I guess he finds it embarrassing. I dressed as Orange Cassidy last year for Halloween at work(and did as little work as possible) and everyone thought it was hilarious. I'm 35 years old and I'm not going to let anyone bring me down because watching something actually brings me a modicum of joy. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Shadow said:

Something I've been wondering for awhile, does Rey Mysterio have a claim to be the GOAT?

I think he's at the level where if someone called him their GOAT, I wouldn't think they're a moron,  so yes. That's my criteria. If you say someone like Randy Orton, who has had a great career,  is your GOAT, I'll think you're a moron. I can see how someone can believe it,  but I'd also assume that person hasn't watched enough great wrestling to come to that conclusion. Rey is great enough that i can believe you've watched every wrestler ever and come to that conclusion.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Peak Rey was great, but while I know some folks think older, slower, bulkier Rey is the bomb, I just don't see it. I think the last time Rey was involved in something that had me actively interested, it was getting fed to Cena at the start of them fucking up Punk's Summer of Punk run. And that was, what, ten years ago? Maybe if he'd gotten a change of scenery and wound up in LU or something he would have had some interesting storylines to work with, but he's basically just been a half-sized Big Show in terms of "floating around the midcard, then getting plugged into a main event storyline when they have nothing else to do."

And being used to get his son over isn't doing his legacy any favours either.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I think we're talking about two different things here, maybe two sides of the same coin.  Wrestling is just a weird thing, man.  I've used this example before, but when Joe Anoa'i goes on the Tonight Show, he goes on it as Roman Reigns.  Not as "Joe Anoa'i, who portrays Roman Reigns on WWE TV."  When Hogan or Warrior did talk shows in the 80s, they did it in character.  That shit was so cringe and corny, and I can imagine people who weren't into wrestling watching it and saying, "what this fuck is this bullshit?"  That's what I mean by maintaining kayfabe long past its sell by date.  You don't see Bryan Cranston on Kimmel staying in character as Walter White and cutting promos on Gus Fring. 

This was actually a thing in the Gawker v. Hogan trail where he claimed he was on the Howard Stern show as Hulk Hogan not Terry Bollea, the closet thing I can think of is musical acts like Spinal Tap, Steel Panther, maybe some rappers like Snoop Dog who appear on shows and such in charecter.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

Peak Rey was great, but while I know some folks think older, slower, bulkier Rey is the bomb, I just don't see it. I think the last time Rey was involved in something that had me actively interested, it was getting fed to Cena at the start of them fucking up Punk's Summer of Punk run. And that was, what, ten years ago? Maybe if he'd gotten a change of scenery and wound up in LU or something he would have had some interesting storylines to work with, but he's basically just been a half-sized Big Show in terms of "floating around the midcard, then getting plugged into a main event storyline when they have nothing else to do."

And being used to get his son over isn't doing his legacy any favours either.

Rey was in Lucha Underground 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Rey Mysterio Jr or Justin Thunder Liger - Who ya got?

I'd say Liger, given his stellar work as both face and heel to go along with his incredible ring work. But I'd have no problem if someone said Rey.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, zendragon said:

This was actually a thing in the Gawker v. Hogan trail where he claimed he was on the Howard Stern show as Hulk Hogan not Terry Bollea, the closet thing I can think of is musical acts like Spinal Tap, Steel Panther, maybe some rappers like Snoop Dog who appear on shows and such in charecter.

You had characters like father guido sarducci appearing on shows in character. And I think mentioned earlier, pee wee Herman, Elvira, and the like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Shadow said:

Something I've been wondering for awhile, does Rey Mysterio have a claim to be the GOAT?

If you are talking in ring then you have argument, however if you are talking over all then no. guys like Flair and Savage where great in ring as well, did better character work, great promo's worked heel and face and were bigger draws.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mysterio is an all time great in ring worker and has excellent charisma but his mic work has never been top notch. If someone thinks he’s the GOAT I wouldn’t think they’re crazy but Liger is a better claim for a junior as GOAT. In my opinion Rey doesn’t match up to the Terry Funks, Eddie Guerrero’s, Randy Savages, Bryan Danielson’s, etc…

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mysterio really only has longevity in his corner. Should have retired years ago. He’s benefited from the industry being raided by tiny guys generally: if he was wrestling this style 10-15 years ago he’d look ridiculous; as it is he only looks slightly ridiculous comparatively. The stuff with his son is Filthy Animals unmasked Rey territory of bad.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On my Job one of my Coworkers that I've worked with for years is a huge wrestling fan like me, when we worked nights he'd let the rest of us know that he was going to the lobby to watch Raw or whatever. Sometimes I've go with him to watch but I didn't want to come across as obsessed. He's my parents age, he isn't an internet fan or anything like me which is cool. It's cool to be able to talk to people about wrestling without having to be so insider with it. My family and people close to me know I'm a huge fan. I don't really broadcast it outside of people that are close enough to know I'm a fan. I even started buying wrestling shirts within the past 5 to 6 years or so. Most of the shirts I have you probably wouldn't be able to tell they are wrestling shirts unless you are are fan. I have a few Sasha Banks Shirts. I think since WWE has been working with people like Rob  Schamberger, Nerds Clothing and Chalkline Official with their apparel, alot of the guys merch has been nice enough to wear outside of wrestling circles. I get compliments my Nerds Clothing shirts, I have an Uso shirt ,Andrade Shirt and a New Day Shirt of Theirs that I get compliments from people I'm sure are wrestling fans and the people that are will let you know they are a fan so that's cool. I think the younger millennial on down wrestlers are more fashionably in tune than the older generation and I think the talent have more input in to their merch. Until about 8 to 10 years ago damn near everyone wasn't getting merch. Not only that if you did have a Shirt it was one shirt at a time and even if you knew the shirt was shitty looking, you'd wear it out on TV every time you could hoping people would buy it. I've got a few shirts from ProWrestling Tees of a few New Japan guys and Indie guys too.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Shadow said:

Something I've been wondering for awhile, does Rey Mysterio have a claim to be the GOAT?

 

12 hours ago, Matt D said:

Best week-to-week TV worker of the 21st century? That's no small thing. I wonder if it holds up against guys like Sheamus and Danielson.

Rey Mysterio's in my Top Ten GOAT mainly for longevity and consistency. I only just have him in said list, I wasn't sure who to pick for my last spot while all the others were locks. Chris Benoit was in my Top Ten before the events of June 2007.

Edited by The Natural
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Rey put his foot down on things as much as he could/should have over the years.

Maybe he didn't understand his value or uniqueness to WWE. Maybe he thought that, because of his size, putting his foot down on things would see him out the door pretty quickly. Maybe he was happy enough with his role and place in the machine.

Either way though, for a guy that good, who was moving that much merch, to not get a more sustained run at the top of the card is a big miss from both parties.

Even more so in an era of brand splits and two world champions.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...