Thibs Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: A big part of his aura was the streak... I think an equally big part was his charisma, look and style though. They were both equally important. Like I don’t think you can put a Samoa Joe in that role and get the same result. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Thibs said: I think an equally big part was his charisma, look and style though. They were both equally important. Like I don’t think you can put a Samoa Joe in that role, at that time, and get the same result. I think Joe would have been fine. Remember he held the ROH title for like two years and when he was finally pinned it was a huge fucking deal. He too had an aura, he didn't maybe have the same freakish look as Goldberg but he certainly looked like a badass and carried himself as such. He has always oozed confidence. If you tried to push Braden Walker as a Goldberg then you'd be in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Keep in mind that an undefeated streak got fucking Ryback over. So let's stop treating Bill Goldberg as if he were Tanahashi, 'k? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I think Joe would have been fine. Remember he held the ROH title for like two years and when he was finally pinned it was a huge fucking deal. He too had an aura, he didn't maybe have the same freakish look as Goldberg but he certainly looked like a badass and carried himself as such. He has always oozed confidence. If you tried to push Braden Walker as a Goldberg then you'd be in trouble. How about Marcus Cor Von? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Ryback should have beaten Punk at Hell in a Cell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Thibs said: How about Marcus Cor Von? Under competent booking and without family issues, I think it could've worked. 7 minutes ago, Web Conn said: Ryback should have beaten Punk at Hell in a Cell. This is absolutely true. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Monty Brown should have been a bigger star in this business. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Web Conn said: Monty Brown should have been a bigger star in this business. Oof. One of the bigger sure fire can't miss opportunities that only WWE could screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Guy is a hyuuuuge wrestling nerd. Bigger than I even thought. Talks about tape trading and doing HTML work for John McAdam when he was a kid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Craig H said: Oof. One of the bigger sure fire can't miss opportunities that only WWE could screw up. I think TNA screwed up on him way before WWE could. Actually if I remember right he was getting a good push as Marcus Cor Von but then he had to go home and take care of his sisters kids. Jarrett should have put Brown over at Final Resolution 2005. Brown didn't have to be NWA Champ for long but he should have been NWA Champ. Early TNA felt so much like a Jeff Jarrett vanity project so he could be World Champion. Strike while the irons hot, Brown as champ might have put some eyes on TNA. I digress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil4126 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 hours ago, Craig H said: Ultimately, I don't want something to destroy or unseat WWE. I just want a viable #2 promotion beyond NJPW that's readily and easily accessible and I want each of these companies to push the other to be better. A thousand times this. Whether you loved WWF or WCW in the Monday Night Wars, you can't deny there were constant attempts for each company to top the other. I want AEW to make the best show possible, which in turn lights a fire under WWE to make their shows better. I have no use for Cody Rhodes or the Jacksons as wrestlers, but as businessmen trying to make for a more entertaining product on my tv machine, I salute and support them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thibs Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 7 minutes ago, Web Conn said: I think TNA screwed up on him way before WWE could. Actually if I remember right he was getting a good push as Marcus Cor Von but then he had to go home and take care of his sisters kids. Jarrett should have put Brown over at Final Resolution 2005. Brown didn't have to be NWA Champ for long but he should have been NWA Champ. Early TNA felt so much like a Jeff Jarrett vanity project so he could be World Champion. Strike while the irons hot, Brown as champ might have put some eyes on TNA. I digress. He was ripe to win that Final Resolution match. Crowd was begging for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I hope this meme of "wins and losses matter" will die at some point. I'm not aware of any big promotion where top guys don't win majority of their matches. And tracking wins and losses for midcarders and jobbers sounds like a bad idea that leads nowhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I don't think they mean it this literally, but if they try top ten rankings for six months, they'll back themselves into a few corners and realize how stupid it is. But I don't think you need to go to those extremes to make wins and losses matter. Just don't go 50/50 and let guys rot thoughtlessly. Seems simple enough in theory. Of course plenty of promotions have succeeded without even that level of insight. So who fucking cares? It really is a meme. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Thibs said: You don’t think he’s in their pocket? No. In fact, I'd be shocked if they were paying him money. What we're seeing is a text book example of "access journalism." It's big in real sports and HUGE in politics. You give the journalist a scoop or a great sound byte, and they write nice things about you. You keep doing this for years and when you die to get glowing tributes that ignore any bad you may have done. They are clearly giving Dave information and he in turn is isn't scooping them on announcements and similar. But I doubt that relationship lasts forever, because it's a lot easier to cozy up to the preeminent guy covering your field when you're just talent trying to promote yourself than it is when you're running a company and some things need to not be reported, or you'd rather not have be buried. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 We live in a world where a not-insignificant number of people think that "on background" means "fake news." I wouldn't waste my energy explaining journalism practices to anyone these days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said: We live in a world where a not-insignificant number of people think that "on background" means "fake news." I wouldn't waste my energy explaining journalism practices to anyone these days. That is very true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 22 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: No. In fact, I'd be shocked if they were paying him money. What we're seeing is a text book example of "access journalism." It's big in real sports and HUGE in politics. You give the journalist a scoop or a great sound byte, and they write nice things about you. You keep doing this for years and when you die to get glowing tributes that ignore any bad you may have done. They are clearly giving Dave information and he in turn is isn't scooping them on announcements and similar. But I doubt that relationship lasts forever, because it's a lot easier to cozy up to the preeminent guy covering your field when you're just talent trying to promote yourself than it is when you're running a company and some things need to not be reported, or you'd rather not have be buried. I'm sure that's the case with Dave and the UFC and Bellator. When Dana White had that blowup with Sherdog.com and went on that tirade about Loretta Hunt and everyone from that website lost their credentials (Josh Gross lost his for spoiling The Ultimate Fighter), I think that changed the atmosphere with the organization and everyone covering it including Dave. Dana and the Fertittas were in a spot in 2001-2005 very similar that the Bucks and Cody are in. Then, the honeymoon phase was over with and Zuffa/UFC wanted to be covered in a certain way especially with it no longer being just a dying niche sport. It wasn't anymore glowing coverage. Dave and Dana still text back and forth, but they have had their issues as well. As far as Bellator goes, Dave has a longstanding friendship with Coker and doesn't really go at Bellator like he does UFC at least since Coker took over. He tries his best to not rip them apart even when they rightly deserve it. Yet, when the UFC had this recent blowup with Jon Jones and USADA drug testing for example, this dude had the unmitigated gall to say UFC should win worst promotion of the year in the Observer like the WWE just didn't do a show in a country largely responsible for a journalist getting dismembered because they're greedy as shit. Anything else is a distant #2. You're not doing yourself a favor by saying dumb shit like that. However, the rapidly deteriorating journalistic relationship between Meltzer and the UFC (especially with this under new ownership) seems like a big catalyst for that behavior. He seems like a lover scorned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 I don't know, Dave has been saying the year has never been more crowded for most disgusting and including the KSA shows in that discussion too. I wouldn't be shocked if UFC wins just on recency bias though. I don't pay enough attention to MMA to have any strong opinion on the rest, but what I gleaned about the Jones thing is pretty ugly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: I wouldn't be shocked if UFC wins just on recency bias though. I don't pay enough attention to MMA to have any strong opinion on the rest, but what I gleaned about the Jones thing is pretty ugly. That lasted for about four or five days max and likely just something that turns out to be a big ass inconvenience. I think this more a hardcore MMA fan story and one that the MMA media failed at blowing up. The story comes out Sunday evening and by Friday or Saturday, everyone had moved on. The same with what happened in Brooklyn last April. Both stories more or less played out like good wrestling storylines and led to one good buyrate, one excellent RECORD BREAKING buyrate, and with this Jones thing looking like a pretty good buyrate. If anything, he should be praising the UFC because they've outdone anything the WWE could write in terms of driving business. Again, nothing NOTHING in the UFC comes close to the Saudi Arabia thing. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Oh the KSA shows definitely get my vote, no question. I'm just saying recency bias is a motherfucker and UFC ended their year on it. Point taken though, it took me several seconds to figure out/remember what the April thing was. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenalysis Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 15 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: TBS I think would actually be a great fit because they show a lot of these competitive video game tournaments on weekend afternoons and overnight, so there might be some crossover there in terms of trying to grab the comicon crowd This is the crowd I think they'll go after- assuming Kenny signs. CEO x NJPW really was a good , well-done crossover (if they do CEO x AEW I'll go and see if my Talim is good and see some quality wrestling) 1 hour ago, Archibald said: I hope this meme of "wins and losses matter" will die at some point. I'm not aware of any big promotion where top guys don't win majority of their matches. And tracking wins and losses for midcarders and jobbers sounds like a bad idea that leads nowhere. If it's done the way NJPW does it, where pinning a guy in a tag match is used to set up title shots, or if they have a TV belt and being on a win streak gets you a shot, it's a good thing. A G1 or Bound For Glory series type deal can be good too. Lots of ways to do this right. 1 hour ago, Archibald said: I hope this meme of "wins and losses matter" will die at some point. I'm not aware of any big promotion where top guys don't win majority of their matches. And tracking wins and losses for midcarders and jobbers sounds like a bad idea that leads nowhere. I think AEW could draw 8-10k to the Greensboro Coliseum. Just tie it in to Wrestlecade so you get some legends matches to go with the AEW stuff. Wouldn't mind seeing Rock N Roll Express vs Young Bucks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Thing is about wrestling, how do you do the win-loss records thing and make it work? As someone else mentioned, EVOLVE had that style for a while and let it go. I think having a more pro sports style focus is fine. I think NJPW already does that rather well and shows it works. ROH and NOAH have done it with success at times. 1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I'm sure that's the case with Dave and the UFC and Bellator. When Dana White had that blowup with Sherdog.com and went on that tirade about Loretta Hunt and everyone from that website lost their credentials (Josh Gross lost his for spoiling The Ultimate Fighter), I think that changed the atmosphere with the organization and everyone covering it including Dave. Dana and the Fertittas were in a spot in 2001-2005 very similar that the Bucks and Cody are in. Then, the honeymoon phase was over with and Zuffa/UFC wanted to be covered in a certain way especially with it no longer being just a dying niche sport. It wasn't anymore glowing coverage. Dave and Dana still text back and forth, but they have had their issues as well. As far as Bellator goes, Dave has a longstanding friendship with Coker and doesn't really go at Bellator like he does UFC at least since Coker took over. He tries his best to not rip them apart even when they rightly deserve it. Yet, when the UFC had this recent blowup with Jon Jones and USADA drug testing for example, this dude had the unmitigated gall to say UFC should win worst promotion of the year in the Observer like the WWE just didn't do a show in a country largely responsible for a journalist getting dismembered because they're greedy as shit. Anything else is a distant #2. You're not doing yourself a favor by saying dumb shit like that. However, the rapidly deteriorating journalistic relationship between Meltzer and the UFC (especially with this under new ownership) seems like a big catalyst for that behavior. He seems like a lover scorned. Well I agree with Elsal for once as I found Meltzer's whole rant on the Jones thing stupid. He lost me when he pitched the idea that UFC could've absolutely run UFC 232 in two cities in two different states because Vince McMahon did it once over 30 years ago. Oy vey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 20 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: Well I agree with Elsal for once You're my Alan Colmes. 20 minutes ago, TheVileOne said: He lost me when he pitched the idea that UFC could've absolutely run UFC 232 in two cities in two different states because Vince McMahon did it once over 30 years ago. Oy vey... I didn't hear the split site idea. They've done the split site thing in boxing (the most recent example being Showtime doing it with two Adonis Stevenson fights last year), but you can't pull a main event from one event and then come up an entire card + plus that moved main event in under seven days. They could have kept Cyborg-Nunes in Vegas with everything else, but the money fight going in was Jones vs. Gustafsson II. It subsidized the entire card. Thus, the rest of the card needed to be moved to Inglewood. Doing anything short of postponing the fight or moving it to California would be creating more chaos and logistical nightmares on top of everything else. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archibald Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Sure, what NJPW does works (for me at least since it is my favourite promotion at the moment), but they never, I think, advertise this idea that wins and loses matter. They have this structure that somewhat resembles sports environment, but are not afraid to bend it whenever they feel like it. Like for example last year Suzuki lost NEVER title to Goto and next day challenged Tanahashi for IC title. That doesn't really make sense if you try to apply "sports" logic, but it was cool moment that led to cool match that led to cool Suzuki reign (that was unfortunately cut short due to Naito/Jericho) so it was good call. Win-loss record never really comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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