Elsalvajeloco Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 This is...not good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 Consider how his fights with Sakuraba went. If Wanderlei has post concussion syndrome, I dread to think what Saku's dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 6, 2019 Author Share Posted February 6, 2019 20 minutes ago, AxB said: Consider how his fights with Sakuraba went. If Wanderlei has post concussion syndrome, I dread to think what Saku's dealing with. I think the training at Chute Boxe is what contributed a lot to this. Sakuraba is probably not in good shape in terms of brain damage, but Japanese MMA training when he was in his prime had less emphasis on sparring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Quote Despite dealing with several concussion-like symptoms, “The Axe Murderer” has no plans to retire right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Oyaji said: Scott Coker: Andy Foster and California were wrong to license Jon Jones. Also, Scott Coker: Hey, Wanderlei and Fedor...do you still wanna fight again? Lets talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 title: "Wanderlei Silva reveals he has concussion-like symptoms" my first reaction: "well, duh" my second reaction: "wonder who Coker books him against next" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 You mean to say that one of the craziest guys from Chute Boxe who used to get knocked the fuck out on the reg during training because they would spar going full blast and also got horrifically knocked out during MMA bouts has concussion issues? Get the fuck outta here. No way! Kidding aside, that's sad, but we ALL saw this coming. I worry a lot about the early generation of fighters for all the shots they took. I'd like to think that fighters today are better protected, but then you still hear stories from various teams about how they still go full blast while sparring. Robbie Lawler put it best when he said something to the effect of "I don't spar because why would I need to spar?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 29 minutes ago, Craig H said: You mean to say that one of the craziest guys from Chute Boxe who used to get knocked the fuck out on the reg during training because they would spar going full blast and also got horrifically knocked out during MMA bouts has concussion issues? Get the fuck outta here. No way! Kidding aside, that's sad, but we ALL saw this coming. I worry a lot about the early generation of fighters for all the shots they took. I'd like to think that fighters today are better protected, but then you still hear stories from various teams about how they still go full blast while sparring. It's not even sparring, its that they used to jokingly soccer kick each other like head trauma is funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 57 minutes ago, Craig H said: You mean to say that one of the craziest guys from Chute Boxe who used to get knocked the fuck out on the reg during training because they would spar going full blast and also got horrifically knocked out during MMA bouts has concussion issues? Get the fuck outta here. No way! Kidding aside, that's sad, but we ALL saw this coming. I worry a lot about the early generation of fighters for all the shots they took. I'd like to think that fighters today are better protected, but then you still hear stories from various teams about how they still go full blast while sparring. Robbie Lawler put it best when he said something to the effect of "I don't spar because why would I need to spar?" I remember the NSAC was looking into Mayweather Boxing Club after the "dog house" segment aired on either 24/7 or Showtime All Access (IIRC it was the latter because it was kinda recent) when one of Hasim Rahman's sons sparred another super young fighter and they went full blast like a smoker for half an hour. The kid got beat up pretty soundly. The problem is...there is nothing Nevada could do especially to Floyd who was making them lots of money. Plus, you don't know how the video was edited by the network. Anyway, you can't be surprised when folks like Terry Norris or especially a Meldrick Taylor who came up in the Philadelphia gyms to show aggressive signs of Dementia pugilistica during their career. MMA has Gary Goodridge and some select others. Boxing has hundreds of these guys because most of the best guys started at age 6 or 7 or 8. If you get into MMA at age 23-30, it's normal because you're transitioning from amateur wrestling or kickboxing or jiu-jitsu etc. The only people who make that leap in boxing at that age are folks like a Seth Mitchell or Dominic Breazeale who couldn't really go anyway in football. Even 18 or 19 is kinda late to become an amateur in boxing. That's when a lot of these folks who become MMA fighters started BJJ or some type of striking discipline. I mean I seen some of the best young boxers in the game straight up level people in sparring on IG (wobbly legs, unfocused eyes, can barely get back up if they can stand at all) and that's still considered a badge of honor. There ain't follow up on whether or not said person didn't back to the gym for an extended period of time or went to the hospital to get evaluated. Nothing. Just look at what I did. I think when it comes to a Wanderlei or Mark Hunt, they built their reps on being tough. Using similar figures in boxing, James Toney and Ricardo Mayorga just retired not too long ago. I mean it's rough hearing young James Toney from the early 90s who was pretty good at trash talking compared to the James Toney now. I mean James had a mini resurgence after his career went off the tracks due to his eating habits and whatnot even if he took more punishment. I don't see Wanderlei and Mark Hunt having that type of resurgence. Hunt had one but unlike James, he was getting his brain shut off by Junior Dos Santos and Alistair Overeem. Also, James Toney was a pretty good defensive fighter. In some ways, there are more opportunities for MMA fighters to continue to accrue damage. Some of these dudes start up gyms (if you want to be part of a money pit, start a MMA gym) and they need money for it to stay afloat. Due to folks needing "recognizable" MMA fighters, there are people to give them that money. So when a guy like Mark Hunt says UFC took his passion for fighting after his earlier comments about concussion like symptoms, I am concerned because you're going in there the same way you came in when you were trying to get the UFC to honor your PRIDE deal to lose to the Sean McCorkles of the world and not caring about getting more long term damage. So is it you can't retire or you won't retire? If it is the latter, that is another day you're going to spend fucked up in the later years of your life instead doing the rational thing of letting go. That's the sad truth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 Seriously, MMA defense is still pretty rudimentary. Jose Aldo is still probably the best defensive fighter in the history of the sport, and he's starting to get hit more and more. He's the only person I've ever seen be able to combine head movement, footwork, takedown defense, and still have the ability to check leg kicks and do them all pretty well. The issue is someone like Max Holloway, who has a chin that is good enough to take his shots can just overwhelming him with volume. His defense can avoid a shot or two, after that his feet stop and he's there to be hit. That is the best we've ever seen at MMA defense. I don't see anyone coming up who is even at the Aldo level, I don't know where we are going to go from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 7, 2019 Author Share Posted February 7, 2019 21 minutes ago, supremebve said: Seriously, MMA defense is still pretty rudimentary. Jose Aldo is still probably the best defensive fighter in the history of the sport, and he's starting to get hit more and more. He's the only person I've ever seen be able to combine head movement, footwork, takedown defense, and still have the ability to check leg kicks and do them all pretty well. The issue is someone like Max Holloway, who has a chin that is good enough to take his shots can just overwhelming him with volume. His defense can avoid a shot or two, after that his feet stop and he's there to be hit. That is the best we've ever seen at MMA defense. I don't see anyone coming up who is even at the Aldo level, I don't know where we are going to go from here. When you think about it, most of your top level kickboxers that have made the transition to MMA ain't that good in terms of defense. Gokhan Saki was getting hit by Frankenstein Jr. Yet, a guy like Jarrell Miller who was solid in the K-1 ranks can be a legit top ten heavyweight boxer and probably be fairly competitive against an Anthony Joshua. It's bizarre. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 19 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: When you think about it, most of your top level kickboxers that have made the transition to MMA ain't that good in terms of defense. Gokhan Saki was getting hit by Frankenstein Jr. Yet, a guy like Jarrell Miller who was solid in the K-1 ranks can be a legit top ten heavyweight boxer and probably be fairly competitive against an Anthony Joshua. It's bizarre. The difference is there is too many things you have to defend at the same time. Boxers and kickboxers also have a much longer history to draw from. MMA makes you have to try to defend all strikes, and all takedowns at the same time, and only about 25 years of techniques to draw from. Learning to defend in kickboxing is one thing, but most of those guys have no idea how to defend takedowns and have no desire to go to the ground. The threat of a takedown for someone who has no idea how to defend a takedown can throw all the rest of a fighter's defense off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 There are (well, were. Be getting on a bit now) plenty of journeyman level Heavyweights in Europe with kickboxing wins over one Klitschko or the other. Not elite level guys, double digits losses type guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 I've started watching some of those 25 best fights on ESPN+ and Jesus, Justin Gaethje's idea of defense was walking into every punch and just taking it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: I've started watching some of those 25 best fights on ESPN+ and Jesus, Justin Gaethje's idea of defense was walking into every punch and just taking it. Fortunately, with the James Vick fight, he has shown he is capable of winning w/o that. In WSOF, he was fighting down to the level of fighters not even in the top 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 I mean, don't get me wrong @Elsalvajeloco, that Johnson fight was really fun. Just not smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 2 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: I mean, don't get me wrong @Elsalvajeloco, that Johnson fight was really fun. Just not smart. A vast majority of his fights are like that which is awesome for the fans but not so good when you're struggling to beat the likes of Luiz Buscape and Luis Palomino. I think the UFC would have still picked him up, but for him, that could have been the difference between an awful contract and the one he has now. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 1:00 PM, Elsalvajeloco said: super late to the party, but i just realized there's no upcoming Fight Pass exclusive cards on the schedule. i know they were the lowest priority cards and the ESPN name gives them (theoretically) more exposure, but it seems weird to cannibalize your own streaming service for somebody else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 1 hour ago, twiztor said: super late to the party, but i just realized there's no upcoming Fight Pass exclusive cards on the schedule. i know they were the lowest priority cards and the ESPN name gives them (theoretically) more exposure, but it seems weird to cannibalize your own streaming service for somebody else's. It's not weird for $150 million a year. I'm sure they knew the deal when they started negotiations with ESPN. Unlike the other potential bidders for the TV rights, they came with a new streaming platform that needed a bunch of content. UFC had leverage in that they already run several cards in a given year and there is a fanbase for that content. They were able to get the same money to be on ESPN+ that they are to be on ESPN. That is crazy when you think about it especially at $150 million. They were making a profit off Fight Pass but certainly not $150 million. Fight Pass was an experiment. A successful experiment but an experiment nonetheless. Not only was it an experiment but it was a stopgap. They moved from that platform with a fairly decent number of subscribers to a platform where they not only get a ridiculous amount of money but one that now has 2 million subscribers in the United States alone. So they can keep Fight Pass as a hub for the fight library and smaller feeder organizations. They also have deals with Roy Jones Jr. and Dmitry Salita for their boxing (and MMA in the case of RJJ) events. However, whatever money they make off it is just the cherry on top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 What's on Fight Pass, anyway? Are like the really old UFC shows with Tank Abott and shit on it? -------- About that top 25 fights: is every Robbie Lawler fight just a wildly entertaining brawl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Execproducer Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 55 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: What's on Fight Pass, anyway? Every UFC ppv, Fight Nights, etc. WEC, A lot of Pancrase, all of the PRIDE shows, Invicta, I think they have some SHOOTO and yadda yadda yadda and adding stuff all of the time. It might be a better deal than the Network. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Execproducer said: Every UFC ppv, Fight Nights, etc. WEC, A lot of Pancrase, all of the PRIDE shows, Invicta, I think they have some SHOOTO and yadda yadda yadda and adding stuff all of the time. It might be a better deal than the Network. I'm keeping it for now just because I might wanna keep up with a random promotion on there or look at a past event (and not necessarily). However, I wouldn't fault anyone for dropping it because these services are starting to pile up and most folks (just like WWE Network) are watching for new content. Two new UFC signings that people should certainly follow: Zelim Imadaev and Rafael Fiziev. I haven't seem Zelim yet but folks are already hyping him up big. I've seen a lot of Fiziev specifically in Road FC and his recent fight in Titan FC on their recent card from Kazakhstan (which is a good reason to keep Fight Pass for someone like me). Fiziev hits incredibly hard and seems to be a guy with enormous physical potential. I wanna see how that translates as a Tiger Muay Thai guy. We've seen someone like Mairbek Taisumov already have success inside the UFC training there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 Are they still going to be doing the Tuesday Night Contender series on Fight Pass, or is that going to ESPN+ as well. They haven't shilled Dana White: LFAF on TV in a while, so that's probably finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, AxB said: Are they still going to be doing the Tuesday Night Contender series on Fight Pass, or is that going to ESPN+ as well. They haven't shilled Dana White: LFAF on TV in a while, so that's probably finished. I think that's still to be determined. That might stay on Fight Pass even if they are doing it throughout the year at their own arena. Lookin for a Fight is kinda infrequent anyways. They put out episodes whenever they feel like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 3 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: What's on Fight Pass, anyway? Are like the really old UFC shows with Tank Abott and shit on it? -------- About that top 25 fights: is every Robbie Lawler fight just a wildly entertaining brawl? In recent times with Lawler vs. MacDonald 2 and Lawler vs. Condit. Nice seeing a new face in this section of the board, do you want any fight recommendations? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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