Cutting A Fucking Promo 101 Revisited

[Elsalvajeloco]

Every now and again I see some jewel on my rewatches. This is one.

I totally thought New Jack was bullshitting about this happening, but APPARENTLY NOT. You will know it when you see it (or hear it). I timestamped it. 

 

Spoiler

This predated Booker T's, "Hulk Hogan we comin for you...", right?

 

[BloodyChamp]

I don’t know and don’t have a clue unless there was an edit. Sounds like there might have been. I can’t wait to hear the story though lol New Jack in SMW has always been fun to rewatch. Very underrated and overshadowed by his ECW stuff imo. 

EDIT: Oooooooooooo I heard it when I watched it all lol!!! I thought it was over when it went to commercial the first time.

Edited September 3, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[Elsalvajeloco]

26 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

I don’t know and don’t have a clue unless there was an edit. Sounds like there might have been. I can’t wait to hear the story though lol New Jack in SMW has always been fun to rewatch. Very underrated and overshadowed by his ECW stuff imo. 

EDIT: Oooooooooooo I heard it when I watched it all lol!!! I thought it was over when it went to commercial the first time.

Hell of a way to end a show, right?! 

I will tell you this: They (the Gangstas) have been the best thing on SMW TV since they showed up and it's not even close. I understand if it's not for everyone, but they have injected some life into the show that's been largely built around Cornette vs. Bullet Bob and whole bunch of interchangeable stuff.  It's very much a solid hour of TV so don't get me wrong, but if you miss one week...or two...or three, you're not missing anything that cannot be summed up in a short video package. 

For reference (also timestamped and includes an additional story that also made me cry laughing)

 

[BloodyChamp]

I remember hearing about all this heat between New Jack and Jim for so many years but everything on them since they started doing real shoot interviews seems like they were always aight. 

Only 2 times when that word was ever used in wrestling? I know there was a 3rd time but it wasn’t “on TV.” 

Edited September 3, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[AxB]

3 times, surely? Booker T, New Jack and Vince McMahon.

Was the Ricky Morton beatdown specifically supposed to resemble the Rodney King video? Because it absolutely did.

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, AxB said:

3 times, surely? Booker T, New Jack and Vince McMahon.

Was the Ricky Morton beatdown specifically supposed to resemble the Rodney King video? Because it absolutely did.

The beating of Reginald Denny, probably.

As for Jack in Smoky Mountain, AFAIK, he enjoyed it there up until Cornette might have dropped some N bombs of his own if you want to believe Jack. That and it was just time to leave cause they had so much heat with the local fans, which definitely isn't hard to believe at all.

[odessasteps]

If you listen to the new BTS shows about the WCW lawsuits, you’d think you heard the word all day long at the Power Plant or if you were around Terry Taylor, among others. 

[Just Dave]

I always thought it was a mistake having RnR Express end up going over so much on the Gangstas, but in that territory at that point in time it was probably a necessity to have the babyfaces go over.

[BloodyChamp]

SMW was good about letting the faces win without killing the heels. They always found a way to keep their heat and make you want to keep watching next time.

[odessasteps]

Makes sense when your promoter/booker is also the number one heel in the company. 

[BloodyChamp]

Same as the Mr McMahon character which was an alltime great heel regardless of what you think of the guy playing it. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

With SMW though, it was a blessing and a curse cause I dunno if they could ever find something better than Cornette vs. Bullet Bob. There were some hot feuds here and there but nothing that could carry the entire promotion like that. I think Jim got too fascinated by himself instead of trying to fill that void.

[odessasteps]

And I didn’t know until he passed away that JC had been the President of the Bob Armstrong Fan Club in the 70s, so they obviously went back 20 or so years during the SMW area. 
 

I wonder if he could have taken a hiatus and let Jim Mitchell be the number one manager for a while. I guess you could argue both Ron Wright and Tammy were maybe the 1A manager, since they managed the heel singles champion  while JC stayed with tag belts.

[BloodyChamp]

Come on now Jim Cornette in SMW isn’t on the same planet as other certain owner/bookers in other territories as far as vanity and ego. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

Come on now Jim Cornette in SMW isn’t on the same planet as other certain owner/bookers in other territories as far as vanity and ego. 

It's the very same principle.

1. Not going anywhere thus automatically making him the most reliable person to be present.

2. Who is going to be useful than him overall? He is out there for the Bodies, Bruiser Bedlam, anyone who is going to oppose Bob as the commissioner, he's doing the skits/segments in between to help build the feuds, etc. And when they don't tape a week of new matches, he is there with Les Thatcher or Tammy or whomever to help run down the current going ons for whatever Best of shows they're doing that week. He is clearly their jack of all trades. Again, that's a blessing and a curse. You're not going to find a stronger talker than him on these shows outside of a random promo from a half strung out Jake during his short run there or an over the top New Jack promo. However, as a non wrestler or part time at best active in ring participant who is ALWAYS present, it makes it tough to supplant Jim as a top guy in the promotion. It's the same way with Bullet Bob in a lot of cases cause Bob's aura and presence as a bad ass overshadows a lot of the other talents. Bob is out here carrying a giant stick and blood pouring down into his eyeball passionately threatening to kick all the heels asses. You're not going to top that. 

On the edited version of Night of Legends, you can tell in that 15+ minute video package recapping the entire history of that program, Jim put so much work creatively in that feud that he didn't leave enough over for a lot else. How do you recreate that knowing that a lot of these guys (like Bedlam or tbh Dirty White Boy) are basically temporary talents for Smoky Mountain passing through until the next stop or just cogs in the wheel of pro wrestling?

[odessasteps]

I’d put the hometown guys like DWB and Smothers in a different category. Buddy is an odd one, as he’s local but his gimmick is world travelling playboy/gigolo type. Which is why his babyfaceturn was great. He can say “you all really know the real Buddy when I grew up here.” 
 

as Beau has often said, his main problem may have just been thinking he knew the people in his territory, but Louisville South wasn’t the same as Appalachia South. 

[BloodyChamp]

Add all of that together and I don’t think any of it was vanity or ego. Besides, all SMW was was an empire of dirt. I think Jim knew that but he was proud of it similar to how a farmer is proud of his.

Edited September 6, 2023 by BloodyChamp

[Elsalvajeloco]

56 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

Add all of that together and I don’t think any of it was vanity or ego.

If there is one thing Cornette is known for, it's not having ego.

Quote

I think Jim knew that but he was proud of it similar to how a farmer is proud of his.

The same thing he will villainize others for today, he did. Now that said, IMO, it's no shame for a wrestling promoter run up against his own hubris. Now, can it be financially disastrous? Yes. Very much. However, in this case, it did prepare him to run OVW later on.

[zendragon]

https://youtu.be/Kj9sLSVwiDU?list=PLZrm-jqkqUCA5z3eCloIlE6Q7H-xHuqji&t=370

[Cobra Commander]

Here’s all six parts of JJ Dillon’s The Saga Of The Family from Florida in 1983:

Behold…

Spoiler

Segments which have the feel of a conspiracy theorist buying time on public access TV to expose the Illuminati where JJ Dillon recounts the history of Dusty Rhodes and Blackjack Mulligan, aka Virgil Riley Runnels and Bob Windham, and their connections to outlaws of the old west.

JJ utilizing a map as a visual aid! Citing specific pages in books!

JJ’s generous offer of an extra minute of television time if Dusty and Windham will appear to defend themselves.

JJ goes to the ranch and is driven off before giving an account of his escape back to civilization.

JJ Dillon is so motherfucking awesome on the mic. This is likely not news to you. But this is an amazing 29 minutes of JJ just going at it without raising his voice.

The best Heel managers of the 1980s come off like they’re committing some sort of crime offscreen. JJ Dillon with the Horsemen brought a lot of “he’s committing some sort of fraud in his free time” energy.

But JJ in these segments really might be the closest pro wrestling has come to reproducing a Lyndon LaRouche infomercial.

Florida is the territory that brought us great wrestling television like Killer Karl Kox using the freedom of information act to expose the Iron Sheik as being from Iran. So maybe it’s not a coincidence that the CWF studio looked like a nightly news set.

[piranesi]

Just checking in to see if jimmy Johnson's promo on the Cowboys/Lions halftime show counts and who he's been studying with?

Edited December 31, 2023 by piranesi

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 minutes ago, piranesi said:

Just checking in to see if jimmy Johnson's promo on the Cowboys/Lions halftime show counts and who he's been studying with?

In wrestling, they tell you don't turn your back to the hard cam. Gotta send him to developmental now.

[piranesi]

On 11/30/2023 at 5:34 AM, Cobra Commander said:

Here’s all six parts of JJ Dillon’s The Saga Of The Family from Florida in 1983:

Behold…

  Reveal hidden contents

Segments which have the feel of a conspiracy theorist buying time on public access TV to expose the Illuminati where JJ Dillon recounts the history of Dusty Rhodes and Blackjack Mulligan, aka Virgil Riley Runnels and Bob Windham, and their connections to outlaws of the old west.

JJ utilizing a map as a visual aid! Citing specific pages in books!

JJ’s generous offer of an extra minute of television time if Dusty and Windham will appear to defend themselves.

JJ goes to the ranch and is driven off before giving an account of his escape back to civilization.

JJ Dillon is so motherfucking awesome on the mic. This is likely not news to you. But this is an amazing 29 minutes of JJ just going at it without raising his voice.

The best Heel managers of the 1980s come off like they’re committing some sort of crime offscreen. JJ Dillon with the Horsemen brought a lot of “he’s committing some sort of fraud in his free time” energy.

But JJ in these segments really might be the closest pro wrestling has come to reproducing a Lyndon LaRouche infomercial.

Florida is the territory that brought us great wrestling television like Killer Karl Kox using the freedom of information act to expose the Iron Sheik as being from Iran. So maybe it’s not a coincidence that the CWF studio looked like a nightly news set.

One thing I always liked about him and other heels of that era is that they were all part of each-other's schemes so you assumed they were all meeting backstage all the time to set shit up while the dumbass babyfaces would be all alone. And that there was a point to it that ulitmately had to do with Jimmy Hart making money somehow. Even the heel announcer would "probably" be in on whatever the scheme was that week and long term and you fucking knew it too.

[J.H.]

So Skandor Akbar was a babyface in Crockett's NWA Dallas? That dog don't huntxfor me. I'd rather Sick Murdoch be the face trying to some sense into Kevin Von Erich than have Capt. Redneck team with Valentine

https://youtu.be/Dz4OshZm2t4?si=6A-eQNYrS7_o8Zmz

 

Jam3s

Edited February 7 by J.H.

[clintthecrippler]

4 hours ago, J.H. said:

So Skandor Akbar was a babyface in Crockett's NWA Dallas?

Yeah, I did an NWA Dallas watch a while back and there was a lot that was actually quite fun - some appearances from Tully Blanchard and Buddy Landell being delightful dickheads, Michael Hayes on commentary shortly before heading into the WWF as Dok Hendrix, early flashes of Ahmed Johnson being a freak athlete, Dick Murdoch being washed in-ring but still a fantastic promo - but Skandor Akbar as babyface manager of Kevin Von Erich (!?!) absolutely did not sit right with me at all. Especially since the attack by Greg Valentine and Black Bart on Akbar that served as the babyface turn got a face reaction for Valentine and Bart from the Sportatorium crowd. 

I think they realized quickly it just came off weird to both the Sportatorium crowd and whoever was watching the TV at the time (if anyone), they bailed and had Akbar turn back heel and cost Kevin Von Erich the North American title.

It probably also didn't help that on average there were maybe 50-100 people in the Sportatorium crowd for each show, and it was also very visible that Kevin Von Erich was going through the motions and that his heart just wasn't into the wrestling thing anymore.

Edited February 8 by clintthecrippler