SDL IS THE SHOW OF THE YEAR (01/03/17)

[Kyuubi]

29 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

You're absolutely right that Cena should acknowledge when he has been bested, but that in and of itself doesn't make Styles more moral in the situation. Especially when he's spent the last several months heeling his ass off every week, including reveling in the tainted victory he got over Cena with help from his buddies. It isn't Cena the character's fault that the show has been written around him for years. You are far from the only one to be sick of it. But in rooting for him to lose to Styles, you're definitely rooting for the more morally questionable character.

Not when it comes to John Cena.

To me, when it comes to Cena, AJ has been nothing but the cavalier competitor save for his alliance with the Club in the beginning. He did not back down when he was alone and walked in, beat up John Cena, and walked out.  It's Cena who has yet to acknowledge it. Take the promo for instance.

Shit gets intense, and Corbin comes down. John brushes AJ aside and makes a remark stating that he "won't get a fight out of Styles" so he challenges the toughest guy in the ring. Barring the fact that Corbin sounds like a hyperventilating kid on the mic at the time, he ignored the guy that beat him three times and brushed him aside as if a.) AJ is not champion, and b.) AJ did not just beat Corbin clean last week, and c.) AJ did not just beat him three times in his last 5 matches. He ignores probably the biggest threat he has faced in his career only to short change him and AJ made him pay for it. Was it a cheap shot? Yes. But John just dismissed AJ as if he were nothing and got knocked the fuck out for it. He does not see AJ as a challenge. He sees him as a contrivance and that would be really annoying if a guy whose ass I kicked just brushed me off.

It was Cena that declared that he does not recognize the New Era and dubbed it "My Time is Now" Era so he is aware that he has been the man for ever and is aware that the show no longer centers around him anymore and he wants it to again. He is the one who rejects the notion, that no one brought up or believes by the way, that AJ is his replacement. He is the one who seems to be against an era that brought on longer women's matches, more capable characters like Cesaro, Sami Zayn, and Kevin Owens, and a more egalitarian approach to the show and the roster. Cena is the guy saying, in the face of all of that progress, "what about me, guys?" as he getting Hollywood deals, hosting SNL, and living in a mansion with his girlfriend who he strings along and her sister and her sister's husband. 

I know Cena is the face. But Superman still wrecked those buildings and brought on an alien invasion because he had to find out who he was. Batman left Gotham's fear toxined vagrants alone after he made it a point to bring Ra's Al Ghul and Crane to Gotham and left Gotham's corrupt establishment alone as they continued reap the benefits of a torn down Gotham that thus led to a radical overthrowing of the corruption by the Joker. Cena's goody two shoes act kept us from a lot of good shit that we could have had earlier whether he willfully brought it on or not. If Superman winning means we are going back to recession or slavery or continued corruption, I do not care if the guy who represents progress is Lex Luthor.

[zev]

So it's Cena vs. Reigns at Mania because You Can't See Batman's Face vs. Superman Punch Thrower, because Vince is actually up to watching movies from this decade?

 

[MORELOCK]

32 minutes ago, Kyuubi said:

It was Cena that declared that he does not recognize the New Era and dubbed it "My Time is Now" Era so he is aware that he has been the man for ever and is aware that the show no longer centers around him anymore and he wants it to again. He is the one who rejects the notion, that no one brought up or believes by the way, that AJ is his replacement. He is the one who seems to be against an era that brought on longer women's matches, more capable characters like Cesaro, Sami Zayn, and Kevin Owens, and a more egalitarian approach to the show and the roster. Cena is the guy saying, in the face of all of that progress, "what about me, guys?" as he getting Hollywood deals, hosting SNL, and living in a mansion with his girlfriend who he strings along and her sister and her sister's husband. 

I know Cena is the face. But Superman still wrecked those buildings and brought on an alien invasion because he had to find out who he was. Batman left Gotham's fear toxined vagrants alone after he made it a point to bring Ra's Al Ghul and Crane to Gotham and left Gotham's corrupt establishment alone as they continued reap the benefits of a torn down Gotham that thus led to a radical overthrowing of the corruption by the Joker. Cena's goody two shoes act kept us from a lot of good shit that we could have had earlier whether he willfully brought it on or not. If Superman winning means we are going back to recession or slavery or continued corruption, I do not care if the guy who represents progress is Lex Luthor.

 

Cena (again, the character - not the person) was clearly just saying that the era of him being on top isn't over. Twisting that around into him being anti-Women's Revolution is really reaching.Tying in the notion that AJ is his replacement (which was *very much* brought up by AJ - "The Face That Runs The Place"), it's clear that the angle he's working is that of an aging vet with something to prove. Nothing heelish about that.

If you're going past the boundaries of kayfabe and getting into "Things will change in WWE and Sami Zayn and Cesaro will get more of a chance to shine if Cena isn't main eventing," then I'm sure it's easy to root for Styles, but at that point you are beyond the realm of face and heel. You aren't rooting against Cena because he's a heel and rooting for Styles because he's a face - you just want Cena out of the picture so your guys can move up.

[Kyuubi]

9 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

 

Cena (again, the character - not the person) was clearly just saying that the era of him being on top isn't over. Twisting that around into him being anti-Women's Revolution is really reaching.Tying in the notion that AJ is his replacement (which was *very much* brought up by AJ - "The Face That Runs The Place"), it's clear that the angle he's working is that of an aging vet with something to prove. Nothing heelish about that.

If you're going past the boundaries of kayfabe and getting into "Things will change in WWE and Sami Zayn and Cesaro will get more of a chance to shine if Cena isn't main eventing," then I'm sure it's easy to root for Styles, but at that point you are beyond the realm of face and heel. You aren't rooting against Cena because he's a heel and rooting for Styles because he's a face - you just want Cena out of the picture so your guys can move up.

AJ is a heel. Him being audacious is not an issue and should not be taken seriously because he is an aging vet who desperately wants to be acknowledged as the best.  AJ can believe what the fuck he wants. Cena saying that there are people who believe AJ is replacing him is something no one, but AJ, has thought ever. That little bit would have worked for the Roman Reigns vs John Cena match that Vince has been fantasy booking for years.

It's this notion that bothers me. It goes beyond aging vet with something to prove with Cena. Tommy Dreamer in WWE's ECW was the aging vet with something to prove, but he was not a legitimate threat to anyone. Him having one last ride into the sunset did not mean shit. The same with Ric Flair. The same with Shawn Michaels. With Cena, it becomes a matter of repetition. It is clockwork. It is cyclical. Cena comes back after months of inaction that did not revolve around any sort of injury. He gets shot without competing due to sheer popularity. AJ has taken on all comers. John Cena, the character, made it a point to say, "Hey screw all of these old guys coming in and taking up spots that we all worked for" becomes the guy that is threatening to take the spot that AJ Styles worked for while he wasn't here. What makes it worse is that he raised the same issue with Brock Lesnar. That is what makes him  heelish(key word here). At the very least he is hypocritical. He already set the stage of that happening with the WWE realm and it being an issue. It was John Cena that made it a point, but when he is doing it all of the sudden, "I was wrong" after Ambrose already skewered him for not recognizing him in spite of Ambrose working the most matches out of anyone two years straight.  No, Cena doesn't get to walk in and just have shit be his way again.

If rooting for Cena means we have another part timer ran Wrestlemania where guys who carried the show for a year do not get recognition, then fuck whether AJ is a heel or not. Whether that is not his intention overall or not, him getting the main event because he John Cena is bullshit as much as Brock vs Goldberg II is. At least AJ earned his popularity and ascension this year, the bigger or more recognized evil is John Cena's obliviousness just coming in and sweeping all the glory that he did not earn and refuses to see any adversity that he faces as a threat. Not when Sami Zayn is getting stretchered out on a semi-weekly basis. Not when Cesaro lost his title shot because Mick Foley is incompetent. Not when Bayley has been pushed back to obscurity. Not when

And that is the issue with John Cena the character. Nothing becomes simple with him. He moves, an earthquake happens. He wants to erase an era because he feels that he is still the top guy, commentators readily endorse it and no one calls him out. He fucks his best friend's girlfriend and he gets off scott free and shames the girlfriend and everyone cheers. He says I want a title shot because I am John Cena and he does it just around Wrestlemania time knowing he has been absent for months and non-existent for nearly a year, he gets it whether it was fault the damn thing was lost in the first place(Rey Mysterio) or he has done nothing to earn it. Only Cena can grab a mic and say, "I don't like this new era because y'all keep saying that I left" while he is on his way to another movie deal and be against an entire movement and all it entails because he is the top guy despite the guy who embodies this new era beating him thrice which again and no one doubts for a second and says, "Well where were you?" These are aspects that they acknowledged on the show so I am not delving in his personal life.

And again, I am acknowledging that I am going beyond heel and face when it comes to personal character. But the landscape is there in not just kayfabe, but in the story as well that I really do not want John Cena to win. At least not yet. John Cena, with the help of Ambrose and CM Punk, basically introduced the ultimate bad guys in the WWE: part timers. The fact that he has become one and is going against the WWE champion right when they become an issue makes it so much worse. The fact that he is treating the guy who has beaten him several times, clean, as a punk makes it seem like he feels it is inevitable. For fuck's sake, when AJ won the title, Cena came back and saw him as the guy that makes his 16th title reign memorable. There is no doubt in Cena when there should be. There has not been in any trepidation in his journey. He comes, he says, "what about me guys?", guy who worked his ass off all year responds, "fuck you, Hollywood," and now he has WWE Title match because he wants it and equal possibility of headlining Wrestlemania as guys who did the work when literally no one else wants it but Cena and Vince McMahon.

I want Cena to earn his 16th Title Reign. I want him to scratch and claw for it. I want him to lose his fucking mind trying to grab it. I want him to go full-on obsessed with that thing where losing actually agitates him. I want a desperate John Cena. Because right now, he is not treating it as seriously as he should. 

 

[Victator]

Like it or not, Cena is the silver age Superman. Most stories now involve reacting to him. 

 

Quote

 Tommy Dreamer in WWE's ECW was the aging vet with something to prove, but he was not a legitimate threat to anyone. Him having one last ride into the sunset did not mean shit. 

You must be forgetting when he was champion for ten years. 

[Jiji]

3 hours ago, Kyuubi said:

I want Cena to earn his 16th Title Reign. I want him to scratch and claw for it. I want him to lose his fucking mind trying to grab it. I want him to go full-on obsessed with that thing where losing actually agitates him. I want a desperate John Cena. Because right now, he is not treating it as seriously as he should. 

I just don't see him changing his character this far into the game. Maybe if it were anybody other than Vince booking, but Vince is the head honcho. I am totally on board with what you're saying but it just is so unlikely.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I don't hate John Cena at all.  People who do not admit that he's done some very heelish shit are the ones who aren't being honest with themselves. I could name a hundred examples but how about the time Rey fought his ass off to win the "world title"  and then Cena picked his bones later on in the night.

[Victator]

14 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I don't hate John Cena at all.  People who do not admit that he's done some very heelish shit are the ones who aren't being honest with themselves. I could name a hundred examples but how about the time Rey fought his ass off to win the "world title"  and then Cena picked his bones later on in the night.

Who scheduled the match?

[bink_winkleman]

Miz is so awful. People who compare his current run to Jericho's should be flogged. Alexa Bliss is terrible, too, and Becky should have believable competition.

You guys are weird. But this was a pretty good show. AJ is still the company ace, and only Cena deserves him.

[The Man Known as Dan]

20 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said:

Miz is so awful. People who compare his current run to Jericho's should be flogged.

It's been significantly better. Unlike Jericho, Miz can go in the ring and has had multiple really good matches this year.

[bink_winkleman]

Miz is beyond boring in the ring, just as he's always been. Jericho is so entertaining, doing everything right and playing heel between the ropes better than anyone in the company. Not to mention how over the List and Jericho in general are. He should have a belt around him, not because he needs it, but because the belt does.

I can't wait until Marine 5 for the laughs, but Miz should seriously just be taking JBL's place. He's formulaic in the ring and this gimmick with his wife is already super stale.

American Alpha is also a highlight. I'm coming around to Corbin.

I really think the only reason anyone prefers Smackdown to Raw is because they don't watch on DVR. Though mind you, I think both shows have had a nice couple weeks leading in to the Rumble.

[jstout]

Both shows are unwatchable without DVR. I don't see how people do it without it.

I don't think everyone's gonna ever agree on everything. I don't get the Mis love, though I think he's very good on the mic and plays a great old-school heel hiding behind his wife's skirt. He's fine in the ring, not as good as Styles but not bad. But I think there were just so many years where his character didn't connect that it's tainted me on his good run now. He's been just another guy for so long that now that he's not just another guy, I can't quit thinking of him as just another guy.

And I don't understand what anyone sees in Corbin - he completely lacks personality. But to each their own, one supposes.

And what's wrong with Cena being back, exactly? He's great in the ring and is outstanding on the mic. Why is having guys like that around a bad thing? After SummerSlam, I'm looking so forward to Cena-Styles again at Royal Rumble. So what if he leaves every few months? I wish more people would leave every few months to give me a break from them.

[The Man Known as Dan]

13 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said:

Miz is beyond boring in the ring, just as he's always been. Jericho is so entertaining, doing everything right and playing heel between the ropes better than anyone in the company. Not to mention how over the List and Jericho in general are. He should have a belt around him, not because he needs it, but because the belt does.

I can't wait until Marine 5 for the laughs, but Miz should seriously just be taking JBL's place. He's formulaic in the ring and this gimmick with his wife is already super stale.

American Alpha is also a highlight. I'm coming around to Corbin.

I really think the only reason anyone prefers Smackdown to Raw is because they don't watch on DVR. Though mind you, I think both shows have had a nice couple weeks leading in to the Rumble.

Chris Jericho hasn't had a good match since the Styles feud ended. Miz on the other hand was doing great stuff with Dolph Ziggler, which was mostly Miz working a great heel in the matches, something Jericho doesn't do. In terms of playing a heel in ring, Jericho is worse at it then Miz, by a lot. 

 

Also, I've tried the 2 hour Raws. The problem is Jericho is a shitty in ring worker, Rollins & Owens have been shitty at everything, and Reigns character is usually absolute shit. Shortening the show doesn't change that it's the main segments that are the things I want to skip.

[Niners Fan in CT]

For me The Miz was always good on the mic but the past six months he's been better than good. He's been better than great. The entire Talking Smack segment between Miz, Bryan and Renee is the best acted segment on WWE television I've seen in some time. It was that awesome.

[Michael Sweetser]

Y'know, I'm not rooting for Cena to lose, just for Styles to win.  There's a big diff. between the two and this way doesn't involve hating John Cena.

[Ultimo Necro]

Just caught up, Cena showed exactly why, like him or not, he has been the man. Possibly his best promo in years.

AJ as the Flair to Cena's Hogan was perfect as well.

How can SD keep being this awesome. Whatever magic they have bottled with the writers / talent / production they need to look at and say "what's the difference between this and what we have on a Monday". It can't be as simple as the writing team / crazy McMahon interference / 3 hours can it?

[The Natural]

Smackdown Live continues to rule. Take notes RAW.