JCM Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, El Dragon said: I'm sorry, but if you are telling me that now a days Chris Jericho is a better in ring worker then Kevin Owens then you need to get your head checked. Or do we need to go into him almost killing Enzo at Summerslam? There's more to being a pro wrestler than ring work. Jericho has carried that act almost as much as Reigns carried the 4 way title match. The Miz and Heath Slater have been two of the best acts going lately and it has little to do with ring work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo~! Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Now we get Jericho being a weasel to champ Owens. It's win/win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 There is. However, when you are a wrestler who I view as a danger to your opponent, no amount of good ring work is gonna save you in my eyes, and the one constant of Jericho on his latest comeback is it seems like there is constantly moments in matches with him were it looks like the other guy got incredibly god damned lucky they weren't severly fucked up. Jericho, at this stage of the game, is an unsafe in ring worker. That is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, JCM said: There's more to being a pro wrestler than ring work. Jericho has carried that act almost as much as Reigns carried the 4 way title match. The act has existed for about five minutes. And any comedy duo needs a straight man; that doesn't mean Owens isn't doing his job. Anyway, I've literally never seen a Kevin Steen match. Based solely on his NXT and WWE ring work, promos, and reactions, this is deserved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Good thing Hunter is smart enough never to okay an angle where he and Steph break up/divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Charlie M. - I get where you're coming from. If this were '84 NWA, it would be a terrible way to lay out a title change. However, in '16 WWE, the USA network wants everything to run through HHH and Steph, and HHH and Steph want everything to run through HHH and Steph. In light of that reality, having HHH help the chickenshit heel (that I wanted to win) to get the belt is about as good as it gets. In NXT, Owens wins the big gold by powerbombing a guy into oblivion. In WWE, he wins it via the goodness and sacrifice of Papa HHH, our messiah who ate a thumbtack bump for our sins. It is what it is - and it's the best we can hope for. Burgundy - By your logic, does that mean that David Arquette deserved to be champion? I like you and all, but sometimes you post things that make me think, "Sweet fuck, what kind of argument is that?" Sorry for using the F-word for emphasis, as I know you're not too keen on cussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said: Burgundy - By your logic, does that mean that David Arquette deserved to be champion? I like you and all, but sometimes you post things that make me think, "Sweet fuck, what kind of argument is that?" Sorry for using the F-word for emphasis, as I know you're not too keen on cussing. I don't mind cursing, as long as it doesn't seem directed toward anyone on the board in a personal way. David Arquette becoming a wrestling champ wouldn't have been my choice, but--using the pre-determined factor--he pretty much did deserve it. It's a story being told. Someone saw some value to it happening. We don't have to like it. But if that's the story Russo's mind came up with in that moment--it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Smelly, with all due respect, your opinion on this stinks! But seriously, in NXT Owens was more of a Vader type of heel, that's true. But I don't think that works best for him on RAW where there's guys like Reigns and Big Cass walking around. Owens can still be a tough son of a bitch and he's proven that. He did beat John Cena clean once. He hung with Reigns in this match toe to toe. He actually pinned Big Cass with the frog splash which I thought was great because that should be a finisher. But he's not going to be winning all these matches clean nor should he. He's more of an opportunist on RAW and he's been tremendous with this character. Again, if his title matches are not the main events I'd have an issue with it but we have to wait and see how they handle it. It's the brand new UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONSHIP, it's HUGE, it most definitely should be headlining and it's holder should be headlining so we'll see. Even if Triple H is back for a couple months, it could be more in a Cena type role against Seth to help get Seth over as a babyface which I would prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 2 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said: I don't mind cursing, as long as it doesn't seem directed toward anyone on the board in a personal way. David Arquette becoming a wrestling champ wouldn't have been my choice, but--using the pre-determined factor--he pretty much did. Someone saw some value to it happening. We don't have to like it. But if that's the story Russo's mind came up with in that moment--it is what it is. But the problem is that there was no actual value to it whatsoever. We can see that in retrospect. On another note, the best part of the recap video Godzilla Perez posted is at around 2:43, where as Owens is in shock at winning the title, there's a little kid in a New Day shirt right behind him in the crowd who is completely stunned at what he just witnessed. That kid is awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 "It is what it is" is just a code for saying "It's bullshit." Replace the former with the latter every time you hear it and you'll know that it's true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Nah, more like, "This is the best we're gonna get under the less-than-optimal circumstances, so try to enjoy it as much as you can." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Going back to how the fans are the real heels and that nonsense bullshit gregg and others were spouting out earlier...We likely wouldn't even have WWE today or any wrestling at this stage if fans didn't cheer for clear heels like Austin and the Rock, if they didn't find them compelling enough to follow them so closely, etc. Fans chant the heels and, to address the other point of contention, like to congratulate them on the big title win. They did it for the Miz, they did it for Ziggler, for Bryan, and for so many others. They've reached the top. This person you've watched for so long made it to the top of the company. They grinded it out and endured shit booking, they endured grinding out indies, and they're now considered the best. You're god damn right KO deserves it and the fans should be able to chant that to celebrate them if they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, sydneybrown said: "It is what it is" is just a code for saying "It's bullshit." Replace the former with the latter every time you hear it and you'll know that it's true. Like I said, I wouldn't have done it. But if someone else chose to do it--finish the sentence as you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said: David Arquette becoming a wrestling champ wouldn't have been my choice, but--using the pre-determined factor--he pretty much did deserve it. It's just how like in real life, whenever someone gets a promotion, it's clearly because they deserved it and not because of any sort of flaws with management or company policy. I mean, someone decided it was going to happen, after all. Also, I was sporting my 17 year old WCW Monday Night Jericho tee that I bought when I was but a wee teenager in 1999, and blew my voice out cheering Owens tonight. I refuse to entertain any pissy whining about one being better than the other. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Smelly, with all due respect, your opinion on this stinks! But seriously, in NXT Owens was more of a Vader type of heel, that's true. But I don't think that works best for him on RAW where there's guys like Reigns and Big Cass walking around. Owens can still be a tough son of a bitch and he's proven that. He did beat John Cena clean once. He hung with Reigns in this match toe to toe. He actually pinned Big Cass with the frog splash which I thought was great because that should be a finisher. But he's not going to be winning all these matches clean nor should he. He's more of an opportunist on RAW and he's been tremendous with this character. Again, if his title matches are not the main events I'd have an issue with it but we have to wait and see how they handle it. It's the brand new UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONSHIP, it's HUGE, it most definitely should be headlining and it's holder should be headlining so we'll see. Even if Triple H is back for a couple months, it could be more in a Cena type role against Seth to help get Seth over as a babyface which I would prefer. Wait, which part of my opinion did you hate? Like, all of it, or just the part where I shit on Rollins and HHH in-ring? Because we can just stipulate that I think Rollins and HHH are pretty dire in-ring so that you can disagree with me more efficiently. 2 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said: Like I said, I wouldn't have done it. But if someone else chose to do it--finish the sentence as you wish. OK, but that doesn't really address the original point. You said, "If someone is made, champ, of course they deserve it!" By no metric did David Arquette deserve the championship, so your argument falls flat. And as someone that hates most chants outside of "WE DON'T WANNA HEAR IT!" when a heel is cutting a promo and "BREAK IT, BREAK IT" when a face is working a hold, I should be inclined to agree with you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo~! Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Someone, I think it was Jericho(?), said winning the championship is more akin to winning the Oscar than winning any kind of a sporting event. By that metric are we not allowed to be happy for a performer who's stuck it out his whole career, with ups and downs, clearly recognized by the public for his talent even if the establishment didn't and finally filmed The Revenant won the Galactic Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said: It's just how like in real life, whenever someone gets a promotion, it's clearly because they deserved it and not because of any sort of flaws with management or company policy. I mean, someone decided it was going to happen, after all. Someone saw fit for them to get the promotion. So, yeah. We agree. @Smelly McUgly Put it this way: if the choice is made for someone to have something, who am I to begrudge them? Who am I to say that something shouldn't happen simply because I don't agree with it? Especially when it comes to entertainment-related stuff. I suppose I just don't wrapped up in who deserves what in that sense. Eva Marie could be crowned WWE Champion tomorrow, taking it from Ambrose. It's a story. Someone saw reason for her to do that. They felt like she 'deserved' it in some way, however abstract. Maybe it's based on skill, maybe it's based on controversy, all of it is based on the money to be made. Ultimately, it's just a plot device. No one is saying don't be happy for Owens. I didn't follow his indie career and I'm not going to pretend that I'm his #1 fan. I really like the guy, and good on him for getting the belt. But if they had put it on Big Cass--what would be the point of being upset about it? They wanted him to have it. He would have deserved it, under those parameters. If you don't agree, you don't agree. No hard feelings, we just don't see 100% eye to eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bink_winkleman Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 No, we do not, and that makes zero sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 4 minutes ago, Craig H said: Going back to how the fans are the real heels and that nonsense bullshit gregg and others were spouting out earlier...We likely wouldn't even have WWE today or any wrestling at this stage if fans didn't cheer for clear heels like Austin and the Rock, if they didn't find them compelling enough to follow them so closely, etc. Fans chant the heels and, to address the other point of contention, like to congratulate them on the big title win. They did it for the Miz, they did it for Ziggler, for Bryan, and for so many others. They've reached the top. This person you've watched for so long made it to the top of the company. They grinded it out and endured shit booking, they endured grinding out indies, and they're now considered the best. You're god damn right KO deserves it and the fans should be able to chant that to celebrate them if they want. Which years was Miz grinding it out on the indies? Those six months in OVW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 minute ago, Burgundy LaRue said: Someone saw fit for them to get the promotion. So, yeah. We agree. My eyes are twitching a bit reading this post, but it's too late in the night for me to get into a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 1 minute ago, sydneybrown said: Which years was Miz grinding it out on the indies? Those six months in OVW? The indies remark wasn't in regard to the Miz, more for the others, but grinding it out certainly counts. He endured his own shit and kept working at it when everyone said he'd be a failure. He improved on his promos, improved enough in the ring, and made it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 7 minutes ago, Sammo~! said: Someone, I think it was Jericho(?), said winning the championship is more akin to winning the Oscar than winning any kind of a sporting event. By that metric are we not allowed to be happy for a performer who's stuck it out his whole career, with ups and downs, clearly recognized by the public for his talent even if the establishment didn't and finally filmed The Revenant won the Galactic Championship? Like Marty finally winning for the Departed? A pseudo lifetime achievement award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 14 minutes ago, bink_winkleman said: No, we do not, and that makes zero sense. Jeepers, Binky! You done me put in my place! Derrrrrrrppppy-baaaa-deee-derrrrrppp-baaaaaa. . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneybrown Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 3 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Like Marty finally winning for the Departed? A pseudo lifetime achievement award. Literally the most telegraphed Oscar presentation in history. Coppola, Lucas, and Spielberg come out to award the Best Director Oscar to who? Paul Greengrass? Scorsese may as well have come out on stage with them. The Departed is still a fucking great movie. It's not his best movie but I'd put it in his top half. And his top half in my mind includes movies that would NEVER be nominated for directing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 At the very least holding the top belt in some way signifies that you've reached the pinnacle of your profession and that's something that Owens probably never in a million years thought would happen. It's something I as an Owens fan on the indies and shit certainly never thought would happen.. so why not give a round of applause for this guy who worked his ass off and reached the goal of not necessarily holding a title but certainly reaching this previously thought to be unobtainable place in their career Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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