AEW - MAY 2023

[Matt D]

12 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is the definition of spiraling. Why is everyone jumping to such stark conclusions based on Punk's name being kept hush hush on all this stuff. Isn't that the AEW playbook for him? They booked a building and named a show without announcing him when he came in. When he got hurt and returned it was a surprise. I didn't expect his name to be on anything today. He was just going to show up on June 17th. This is all PR & cover up for his name being found on the initial press release before someone was like no wya guys his return is supposed to be a surprise.

Him posting videos being annoyed with the reporting of stuff doesn't make me feel like all of this has blown up. Just the contrary. He's being talked about more today than he has been in awhile. He's keeping himself relevant. He's drumming up interest in himself. Not exactly the same as drumming up interest for AEW, I can recognize that. But that's how draws become draws. They use their own drawing power to make themselves a bigger deal and rises the tide for the company (theoretically).

All I'm going to say is if this all happens to be true somehow, and Steel was supposed to come back but they decided against it... that's not on Punk. Dude has not wavered from that detail. And had AEW agreed to it, then reneged... that's on them for breaking their word. But again I think this is mostly something being made out of nothing.

Ok, enough with that boring grass-touching. Let's get back to parsing through this. There was a point yesterday when the barrage of instagram posts were going around, where people here just threw up their hands. Not this guy though. So that got me thinking just why everything felt more severe this time and whether it's accurate or if it just hit us that way. It's a combination of a few things.

• This was happening on upfront day. 
• Punk was railing against the fans in a way that he didn't before, even his own fans. 
• Punk was going after Alvarez so directly, even pulling out old e-mails.
• Punk was going after Bix at least indirectly. Bix is not a guy I've had any contact with since he stopped posting regularly on PWO (and he was sporadic before that) and he's not someone I have a lot of one-on-ones with or anything, but he's someone that we've been in the same circle with for literal decades. So that felt weird.
• While yes, we don't know anyone, etc. etc. He just seemed so thoroughly unhappy with everything. Nothing new there, but it's one thing to seem that way when you just got injured for the second time in a few months. It's another when you're about to come back and we're hearing from Dax how excited you are to give back to the fans and come back, etc. It just felt like a guy who didn't want any of this bullshit in his life anymore. 
• And yes, he posted one meme about Larry being a better exec than the ones at AEW and one picture of the door from Brawl Out. Those are not small things necessarily but he wasn't posting about talent or Khan or anything else like he with Mox and Rocky previously.

So it felt a little more personal, a little closer to home, a little more dire (especially the timing). 

But was it really all that bad? I don't know. It sure felt that way. 

Meltzer made it seem like a hostage situation this morning where they've got the show in a rough time spot and are getting paid a lot of money, where they've booked the buildings, ambitious ones, especially Chicago, where WBD still thinks he could and should come back, where if he doesn't, him not being there will overshadow anything they possible do, all combined with the sheer fact that there's no one else. Goldberg, Mercedes Mone, Drew or Edge in the medium term. There's no one out there that can fill the gap. 

So I guess it's kind of between Punk's irritation and his spite. What's more powerful. If it's spite, hopefully he rolls back in and channels all of this massive negative energy and goes on a blistering heel run. If it's irritation, well.. I guess we've seen what that looks like.

[Dolphman 3000]

49 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Punk was going after Bix at least indirectly. Bix is not a guy I've had any contact with since he stopped posting regularly on PWO (and he was sporadic before that) and he's not someone I have a lot of one-on-ones with or anything, but he's someone that we've been in the same circle with for literal decades. So that felt weird.

Bix and the PWO crew have been accusing Alvarez of grooming his wife for the past 24 hours since apparently she was underage when he thanked her in Death of WCW

PWO turned into a bloodthirsty anti-Observer cult at some point, so to see them with knives out is not surprising

[Matt D]

2 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

PWO turned into a bloodthirsty anti-Observer cult at some point, so to see them with knives out is not surprising

Bix is an entity unto himself. There was a point where I'd humorously call PWO something of an Observer Watchdog Thinktank but that stopped being true by 2013 or so and it became more of a retro podcast farm and engine for GWE 2016. Now it's most useful for the repository of specific match reviews. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Bix and the PWO crew have been accusing Alvarez of grooming his wife for the past 24 hours since apparently she was underage when he thanked her in Death of WCW

PWO turned into a bloodthirsty anti-Observer cult at some point, so to see them with knives out is not surprising

No dog in the fight, but that's super shitty and way over the line - I really, really don't like the way people throw 'grooming' around nowadays - same with stuff like 'gaslight.' 

[Technico Support]

Bix is the Rupert Pupkin of wrestling journalism.   

Edited May 18, 2023 by Technico Support

[Dolphman 3000]

15 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Bix is an entity unto himself. There was a point where I'd humorously call PWO something of an Observer Watchdog Thinktank but that stopped being true by 2013 or so and it became more of a retro podcast farm and engine for GWE 2016. Now it's most useful for the repository of specific match reviews. 

The Bix's and Roverts of the world now coordinate their nonsense on the Voices of Wrestling Discord since they've been banned everywhere else - 99% of terrible things on Wrestling Twitter originate from there

[Craig H]

For Bix, the weird thing is that he's had this on again off again feud with Dave and Bryan for years now. However many years again, less than 5 but more than 1, Bix was even on WOR to talk wrestling and dispel rumors of there being heat between the two parties. Going further back, Bix worked for Dave, and going further back than that, Bix on here was hanging all over Dave's nuts trying any way possible to get on the show with Dave to get Dave to notice him. He was basically rovert before there was a rovert. 

Then you have rovert who I think got banned from the WO boards for being rovert and that turned him against Dave. But until then, he was also always just trying to get Dave to notice him.

They're both fucking weirdos, but I can at least say with some degree of confidence that I wouldn't have to worry about Bix stalking anyone at NXT.

But basically, it's two dudes who looked up to Dave way too much and had varying degrees of success with that and now have varying degrees of discord with the guy.

[Matt D]

The point I was trying to make is that it's a different sort of self-destructive behavior to be messily feuding in public with Alvarez and Bix than with Stephen Woltz/Adam Page and Matt and Nick Massie/Jackson. And it just made for a very weird and uncomfortable couple of hours yesterday that was different than what we'd been used to up til now (though we were on the road after Meltzer's message board post a month or two ago) and it's hard to place "just how bad it is" relatively. Probably better than a locker room right but ...

[Technico Support]

I alluded to it in another post, but I keep thinking about the Marty & Sarah Love Wrestling podcast episode from after Brawl Out.  DeRosa is an ex friend of Punk (a growing list!) and longtime friend of Colt ("Colt got us in the divorce") and he suffers from depression and anxiety.  He touched a little bit on Punk's issues with friends (no tell all/scandalous bullshit, just an honest conversation), mentioned a face to face discussion with Punk about therapy where Punk told him it's something he just doesn't believe in, and one of the last things Marty said in the ep was he just hopes Punk gets the help he needs. 

We all play internet psychologist and maybe it's not fair, but his behavior at the press conference alone, before anything else, was not the actions of a person who is well.  I mean shit, I'm personally not well and I would never dream of going off on my coworkers at a work function or anything of that degree.  And then you have the behavior yesterday that @Matt D is talking about...it's just disconcerting.  Yeah, AEW is better off without him.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Technico Support

[Craig H]

1 minute ago, Matt D said:

The point I was trying to make is that it's a different sort of self-destructive behavior to be messily feuding in public with Alvarez and Bix than with Stephen Woltz/Adam Page and Matt and Nick Massie/Jackson. And it just made for a very weird and uncomfortable couple of hours yesterday that was different than what we'd been used to up til now (though we were on the road after Meltzer's message board post a month or two ago) and it's hard to place "just how bad it is" relatively. Probably better than a locker room right but ...

So here's my take on that. We've seen how Punk's hatred snowballs. It grows small and turns into something different the larger it gets. It starts out going after the only two wrestling journalists on his mind because there's a perception they're making shit up and making life miserable to him. I'd be willing to bet that you could trace all of this shit back to DVDVR probably 20 years ago or so. It also doesn't help that Bryan for weeks has been crying about being dragged into drama while he's been stirring shit up. 

So that's how it starts, going after Bryan, the guy crying so much about being dragged into stuff, and Bix, the easy target. Then as it grows it turns into taking shots at execs at AEW and probably not Kenny, Matt, and Nick this time, and then taking veiled shots at fans.

From all of the reporting, you can pretty easily piece together that something happened between Punk and AEW within the last few days, maybe involving Ace Steel, and there's no hockey on for Punk to distract himself with, he was presumably supposed to have a film crew at his place, and instead he's left to follow wrestling drama on Twitter and IG and then he reacts to all of that.

 

[JohnnyJ]

Right. It's the distinction between having issues in the workplace and having issues with the state of wrestling media. Yes, wrestling media is a ridiculous echo chamber starved for content.  If you are suffering from it, it's not going anywhere. Just log off. 

Reading between the lines, whatever the contract is between Punk and AEW, each side kind of understands they are stuck with each other. It feels like a couple in a bad marriage with both knowing it would cost too much money to divorce. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by JohnnyJ

[Craig H]

3 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I alluded to it in another post, but I keep thinking about the Marty & Sarah Love Wrestling podcast episode from after Brawl Out.  DeRosa is an ex friend of Punk (a growing list!) and longtime friend of Colt ("Colt got us in the divorce") and he suffers from depression and anxiety.  He touched a little bit on Punk's issues with friends (no tell all/scandalous bullshit, just an honest conversation), mentioned a face to face discussion with Punk about therapy where Punk told him it's something he just doesn't believe in, and one of the last things Marty said in the ep was he just hope Punk gets the help he needs. 

We all play internet psychologist and maybe it's not fair, but his behavior at the press conference alone, before anything else, was not the actions of a person who is well.  I mean shit, I'm personally not well and I would never dream of going off on my coworkers at a work function or anything of that degree.  And then you have the behavior yesterday that @Matt D is talking about...it's just disconcerting.  Yeah, AEW is better off without him.

I wouldn't take the step to say Punk is unwell. Honestly, he's probably fine. Lots of people have trust issues or have an easier time letting people know that they felt slighted. Plenty just know how to manage it and cut out anyone that is perceived to be toxic or cancerous and keeps a very small circle of friends of confidants. Maybe that's just how Punk is. Now, if we started hearing that he was taking shit out on April then that would be a different story. 

[Dolphman 3000]

2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

I wouldn't take the step to say Punk is unwell. Honestly, he's probably fine. Lots of people have trust issues or have an easier time letting people know that they felt slighted. Plenty just know how to manage it and cut out anyone that is perceived to be toxic or cancerous and keeps a very small circle of friends of confidants. Maybe that's just how Punk is. Now, if we started hearing that he was taking shit out on April then that would be a different story. 

I remember years ago Punk did an interview where he explained why he chose "Cult of Personality" as his theme, and his explanation was just some surface-level dreck that disappointed me like "the lyrics say I exploit you, still you love me - that's what I do to fans!"

We can act like Punk is a genius playing fifth-dimensional chess, but the fact is he's not the brightest bulb

[odessasteps]

To me, he still appears to be the same jerk as he was in 2002. 

(Said as someone who is same jerk they were in 1988) 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I wouldn't take the step to say Punk is unwell. Honestly, he's probably fine. Lots of people have trust issues or have an easier time letting people know that they felt slighted. Plenty just know how to manage it and cut out anyone that is perceived to be toxic or cancerous and keeps a very small circle of friends of confidants. Maybe that's just how Punk is. Now, if we started hearing that he was taking shit out on April then that would be a different story. 

Oh for sure, we all draw the line differently.  I say the guy is unwell in my own judgment because I feel like if your issues snowball and get so out of hand and uncontrollable that it causes you friendships or jobs, then you're not well.  If you swap out "rage" or "trust issues" with "alcoholism" and you say, "I got drunk and lost friends and fucked up my job," or "my drinking led to a physical altercation at work where I punched someone," then the prevailing opinion would be that you're unwell and need some help with the alcohol.  But again, we're just looking at one person's behaviors at face value and applying our own judgment, etc.

[Craig H]

Much easier to do away with a job when you're sitting on fuck you money.

[Lawful Metal]

It’s all a work to drum up will he or won’t he in Chicago for the debut of Collision.

I have spoken.

[TheVileOne]

Once again, Tony Khan has failed as a leader and failed to properly manage this situation. 

[matt925]

13 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

It’s all a work to drum up will he or won’t he in Chicago for the debut of Collision.

I have spoken.

Even if that was the case and Punk simply didn’t want his return announcement to be at an advertising presentation, this would be really bad storytelling. Now the fans are turning against Punk for sure because of how this narrative is going. Is he supposed to make his triumphant return in Chicago as a heel? Be a super face in Chicago and a super heel everywhere else? 
 

To me it’s just like mjf at the last double or nothing. Everything got really weird and unlikeable. Turned me off a lot. 

[hobo joe]

If this is a shoot it's fucking stupid and if it's a work it's even fucking stupider.

I'd love it if this was the end of Punk in AEW. He's already proven to be more trouble than he's worth and he's received more chances than he deserves. But Punk's got Tony by the balls and Ace Steel will end up an EVP by next Wednesday.

Tony restructuring the entire roster around Punk only for Punk to blow it up last minute is hilarious, but the funniest outcome is still Punk coming back despite this and getting immediately injured again, so that's what I'm expecting.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

35 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Once again, Tony Khan has failed as a leader and failed to properly manage this situation. 

Eh, idk if I can fully get behind that - while I agree with you on a certain level in that I think many, if not most of us here would have handled the situation (or certain aspects of it) at least somewhat differently were we in TK's shoes, the reality of the situation is that even Vince McMahon was quoted as saying Punk was harder to deal with than Shawn Michaels at his most pill-faced. 

[Lawful Metal]

25 minutes ago, matt925 said:

Even if that was the case and Punk simply didn’t want his return announcement to be at an advertising presentation, this would be really bad storytelling. Now the fans are turning against Punk for sure because of how this narrative is going. Is he supposed to make his triumphant return in Chicago as a heel? Be a super face in Chicago and a super heel everywhere else? 
 

Yes.

[TheVileOne]

5 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Eh, idk if I can fully get behind that - while I agree with you on a certain level in that I think many, if not most of us here would have handled the situation (or certain aspects of it) at least somewhat differently were we in TK's shoes, the reality of the situation is that even Vince McMahon was quoted as saying Punk was harder to deal with than Shawn Michaels at his most pill-faced. 

Well yeah, but look at the source of who said that. Not exactly a person of integrity and fair business. Also, Vince did owe him many ones, pal.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

5 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Well yeah, but look at the source of who said that. Not exactly a person of integrity and fair business. Also, Vince did owe him many ones, pal.

I mean, I definitely see where you're going with your position, but I don't think it's quite the 'gotcha' you think given that Punk was still with WWE at the time, heading into a huge WM match with Undertaker at Giants Stadium... I don't think the shit really hit the fan until the end of that year (though I do know that was the root of some issues in that he wanted to close the show over Cena/Rock, which is insane in retrospect, and I also seem to recall some kind of payday dispute)  But again, I stress: you definitely aren't wrong in principle -  if he said something like this subsequent to leaving, like on THAT Colt pod, at a UFC presser, or any of the AEW shows he worked in '21-22, that's a different deal - but given his position/status at the time it was said, I'm still gonna give the benefit of the doubt that was not yet an 'unreliable narrator' if you will - YMMV (and clearly does, but that's okay)

[Dolphman 3000]

10 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I don't think the shit really hit the fan until the end of that year (though I do know that was the root of some issues in that he wanted to close the show over Cena/Rock, which is insane in retrospect, and I also seem to recall some kind of payday dispute)

In the Colt podcast, Punk said after his Mania match with Taker he was congratulated by Vince who said something like "that could have been the main event!" and Punk responded "SO PAY ME LIKE A MAIN EVENTER". And he said Vince just laughed it off.

Punk's passive unless you give him leverage to work with. In WWE, he had leverage in 2011 and his demands were that he wanted an Ice Cream Bar and a documentary about himself. I think Vince was done catering to him after that, even though he was a reliable champion.