WrestleZAYNia XXXIX - 4/1 & 4/2/2023

[The Idiot King]

1 hour ago, worldcupfever said:

We need to get away from the idea of "tarnished by losing to the champ" - an individual or a team going back to the drawing board and redefining themselves, especially if it's specifically to defeat a certain roadblock (not Rochester) is one of the best stories you can tell in any sports-related medium.  We're not automatically devaluing half the NFL because they lost to the Chiefs last year, we're looking forward to seeing what they've all done to adjust to the task of beating the Chiefs and/or winning the Super Bowl.  

Let's not focus on the tarnish, let's focus on the retooling:

https://youtu.be/YNv4fGQvKQQ

I appreciate this thought, and it's a valid point, because it is easy to forget how long a year is and how much can change/be forgiven and forgotten in that time. I think where it's tricky is some of the people who are most naturally in line to be challengers have already been beaten either very decisively, or multiple times. I think Bianca's in another tough spot with how dominant she's been, but I think the easy solution here is that you just turn her, which isn't really an option with Roman at this point. I think you have a couple of match-ups for Roman that they'll probably run while Cody is off dealing with Brock -- Riddle (for a second time), Orton, Rollins (for a second time) -- but in the end, truly, it's going to be Cody who beats him, just at a different PPV, which is what I ultimately don't really understand as a decision. I think a lot will depend on how Cody's booked from now until then, and I'm pretty sure he'll be fine and kept safe to ultimately take the belt off Roman, but he has certainly looked like a geek this weekend. It is just such a mixed-up, all-over-the-place, messy kind of decision-making that doesn't seem to really leave anybody happy or wanting more. Wrestling fans are FICKLE but it is always interesting to see what causes the wind to blow in a certain direction, even if it's not hugely based in reality (i.e. the company is still currently making more money than god), but this (and Vince's return) seems to have blown away a lot of the good will that they've accumulated over the last year or so.

Will it ultimately matter? Probably not. WWE is too big to fail at this point. But what good is it to be on a wrestling message board if not to hand-wring and pore over the sacred texts and what-if and fantasy book. Why, maybe the next great son-of-a-billionaire wrestling promotor is sitting amongst us as we speak.

 

[worldcupfever]

2 hours ago, The Idiot King said:

I appreciate this thought, and it's a valid point, because it is easy to forget how long a year is and how much can change/be forgiven and forgotten in that time. I think where it's tricky is some of the people who are most naturally in line to be challengers have already been beaten either very decisively, or multiple times. I think Bianca's in another tough spot with how dominant she's been, but I think the easy solution here is that you just turn her, which isn't really an option with Roman at this point. I think you have a couple of match-ups for Roman that they'll probably run while Cody is off dealing with Brock -- Riddle (for a second time), Orton, Rollins (for a second time) -- but in the end, truly, it's going to be Cody who beats him, just at a different PPV, which is what I ultimately don't really understand as a decision. I think a lot will depend on how Cody's booked from now until then, and I'm pretty sure he'll be fine and kept safe to ultimately take the belt off Roman, but he has certainly looked like a geek this weekend. It is just such a mixed-up, all-over-the-place, messy kind of decision-making that doesn't seem to really leave anybody happy or wanting more. Wrestling fans are FICKLE but it is always interesting to see what causes the wind to blow in a certain direction, even if it's not hugely based in reality (i.e. the company is still currently making more money than god), but this (and Vince's return) seems to have blown away a lot of the good will that they've accumulated over the last year or so.

Will it ultimately matter? Probably not. WWE is too big to fail at this point. But what good is it to be on a wrestling message board if not to hand-wring and pore over the sacred texts and what-if and fantasy book. Why, maybe the next great son-of-a-billionaire wrestling promotor is sitting amongst us as we speak.

 

Yeah, I don't want to make it seem like people CAN'T work themselves out of title contention or that the perception of contenders can't affect the standing of a champion.  I just don't want to write off the viability of a good top-to the bottom-to the top story arc.

Edited April 4, 2023 by worldcupfever

[Infinit]

Late to the party...and sorry I didn't read all 23 pages so sorry ahead of time lol

I thought Michael Cole was great both nights.

Seth/Logan was pretty good for what it was supposed to be.

Rey/Dom was dope. Loved the entrances. Dom has the potential to be a megastar.

Rhea/Flair was alot of fun. Maybe not 5* but it was really good.

Tag title match was beautiful. WWE got the ending of night 1 right. Kudos.

IC title was great. 

Main event was a great match until the finish.

I didn't like:

Cena looked so awkward. Dude is a 20+ year veteran and broke the STF without seeing the ref or hearing the bell ring.

Was that the most MEH HiTC ever? And how hilarious was them trying to rewrite history that "Brood Edge" was some sort of dangerous character? The Brood were basically Ministry of Darkness lackeys and Edge and Christian weren't much until they hooked up with The Hardys, which was post Brood, if I recall correctly. 

All in all, Night 1 was pretty great and Night 2 was pretty good, in my opinion. 

 

[Craig H]

Kennel in a Cell is still the worst, but this match didn’t need the cam at all. You could have done the same thing with a regular cage match or a weapons cage match. We got I think one decent bump off the cell and that was Finn’s CDG and he wasn’t much higher than the turnbuckle. It also didn’t help that Finn’s head got opened up like it had a zipper.

[Hamhock]

I have a truly terrible idea: I want to see a year-long meta storyline where the roster collectively agrees to stop challenging for the World Title because "there's no point...someone from the Bloodline will just interfere, or interfere again, or if you ban the Bloodline someone new will debut and interfere and join the Bloodline", and Reigns grows rusty and desperate for attention each month as no one wrestles him.  In Simpsons terms, Reigns is leader of the Stonecutters, and everyone else just forms a Ancient Mystic Society of No Romans.

The US Champion wins The Money in the Bank, and  just says, "Nah, we all know how that goes - I'm going for Gunther's IC Title - now there's a fighting champion!" This person or Gunther (now the IC/US dual champion) also becomes the Royal Rumble winner, declines to face Reigns and declares himself the true/uncrowned champion, and "defends" it at Elimination Chamber.

Reigns has gone nearly a year without defending the title, and they're going to strip him of it if he doesn't, but no one will agree to challenge him for it. He tries defending it against jobbers on Smackdown, but the Royal Rumble winner just heckles him from the stage, and Reigns agrees to an insane list of stipulations guaranteeing a clean outcome in order to get an opponent to face him at Wrestlemania.

[The Natural]

Fucking hell, WWE.

[Craig H]

I didn’t see this initially, but I caught HHH saying that this was only the start of the Bloodline story with Cody and to be patient.

You know what else he said that about? When Charlotte beat Rhea and then both proceeded to do fuck all and Rhea was misused to the point where some of us thought she could get cut since they were cutting other high profile wrestlers. It took three years to get back to Charlotte vs Rhea.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I don't believe they are incapable of booking babyfaces.  Bianca has been kept red hot for over a year 

[supremebve]

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I don't believe they are incapable of booking babyfaces.  Bianca has been kept red hot for over a year 

I have a friend that I argue with basketball with, and we had to set a rule where any argument that can only be supported by Kevin Durant is invalid.  There is literally no reason to believe that anyone not named Kevin Durant can do as many things on a basketball court as Kevin Durant.  If he's the only example you can give, the argument just gets thrown out.  I say that to say this, Bianca Belair is Kevin Durant.  She is literally that talented, she can't be the only example of the WWE knowing what to do with a babyface, because she's good enough that I don't believe they can fuck her up.  Bianca Belair and Rhea Ripley are not only the most talented wrestlers on the roster, but they are the most talented while being groomed to do exactly what the WWE wants them to do.  Any success either of them has is not in any way indicative of any success anyone else will have in the exact same situation.  

[The Natural]

Meltzer:

Sami Zayn/Kevin Owens vs. The Usos, *****.

GUNTHER/Sheamus/Drew McIntyre, *****.

I'd give ***** to the Triple Threat and possibly Zayn/Owens vs. The Usos also. Need to watch it back.

Edited April 7, 2023 by The Natural

[NikoBaltimore]

20 hours ago, The Natural said:

Fucking hell, WWE.

Well that unfortunately invalidates Dom's otherwise awesome entrance.  I know there's talks of cuts and all that but I would seriously fire the dude who put that together.

[Craig H]

Rhea vs Charlotte should have received 5*, but who cares, it's subjective, so I will give it...TEN STARS because it FUCKING. RULED.

[supremebve]

5 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Rhea vs Charlotte should have received 5*, but who cares, it's subjective, so I will give it...TEN STARS because it FUCKING. RULED.

I agree,  it was the best match of the weekend for my taste. In a weekend full of great wrestling,  I feel like it was the best or wrestling match by a decent amount. If you want to talk about biggest moments or culmination of storyline, sure there were bets matches. But,  if you want two workers wrestling a hard hitting well worked match,  give me Rhea Ripley vs. Charlotte.  

[Niners Fan in CT]

Rhea and Charlotte was really good but I'd have it as the 4th best match on the card.  I don't really do star ratings, to me what takes it down a bit is the few opening sequences where there wasn't much going on and it wasn't a slow burn, there just wasn't much that played into the later sequences.  

Gunther vs. Sheamus vs. McIntyre is easily the best worked match and I typically don't like triple threats but they found a way to keep everyone involved.  

From a storytelling perspective,  the two main events were off the charts awesome.  I know a lot of people have a problem with the finish to Roman and Cody but man what a fucking awesome match from beginning to end.  Anyone who says "just another Roman match" probably didn't watch the full 36 minutes of greatness these two put on. So many memorable moments and the crowd is on it's FEET the entire time. 

[The Natural]

My top five of WrestleMania XXXIX:

1. GUNTHER vs. Sheamus vs. Drew McIntyre. WWE WrestleMania XXXIX Night 2, 2nd April. *****.

2. Sami Zayn/Kevin Owens vs. Jey Uso/Jimmy Uso. WWE WrestleMania XXXIX Night 1, 1st April. Need to watch it back to see if it's *****.

3. Rhea Ripley vs. Charlotte Flair. WWE WrestleMania XXXIX Night 1, 1st April. ****3/4.

4. Roman Reigns vs. Cody Rhodes. WWE WrestleMania XXXIX Night 2, 2nd April. ****1/2.

5. Bianca Belair vs. Asuka. WWE WrestleMania XXXIX Night 2, 2nd April. ****1/4.

[The Natural]

On 4/7/2023 at 11:44 AM, The Natural said:

Meltzer:

Sami Zayn/Kevin Owens vs. The Usos, *****.

GUNTHER/Sheamus/Drew McIntyre, *****.

I'd give ***** to the Triple Threat and possibly Zayn/Owens vs. The Usos also. Need to watch it back.

That's the first ***** WrestleMania matches from Meltzer since the classic Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13.

I'd say these were *****:

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels. WrestleMania XXV. That was definitely *****.

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels. WrestleMania XXVI.

Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton. WrestleMania XXX.

Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns. WrestleMania XXXI.

Edited April 9, 2023 by The Natural

[The Natural]

https://twitter.com/FinnBalor/status/1644462338047873025

Finn Balor is tough.

[supremebve]

14 minutes ago, The Natural said:

https://twitter.com/FinnBalor/status/1644462338047873025

Finn Balor is tough.

There is not a single move that makes me worry about injury more than his double foot stomp. I just don't see how you can keep doing that move so perfectly that you never crack your opponents ribs,  or sprain an ankle,  blow out a knee,  or any number of other things. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

8 hours ago, The Natural said:

That's the first ***** WrestleMania matches from Meltzer since the classic Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin at WrestleMania 13.

I'd say these were *****:

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels. WrestleMania XXV. That was definitely *****.

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels. WrestleMania XXVI.

Daniel Bryan vs. Batista vs. Randy Orton. WrestleMania XXX.

Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns. WrestleMania XXXI.

I’d say no to the last two. Bryan’s match dragged until he returned after the RKO/Batista Bomb combo, and Brock vs Roman didn’t have a finish, and became a three way for what two minutes? I love that match (the ending in particular), but I’m not shocked Dave didn’t give it five for the reason I outlined. Any match that changes that far along shouldn’t get the full five. 

[ChesterCopperpot]

On 4/7/2023 at 8:38 AM, NikoBaltimore said:

Well that unfortunately invalidates Dom's otherwise awesome entrance.  I know there's talks of cuts and all that but I would seriously fire the dude who put that together.

I don't believe it was used as part of his entrance - it was in a promo package during the pre-show.

The same promo ran just before the match a couple of hours later but that scene had been removed.