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RAMPAGE- 11/4/2022!

DEAN

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Craig H

Craig H

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3 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Should Shibata even be wrestling right now?

Sure. Odd question coming from the guy who watches a lot of MMA where plenty of those guys have had their brains beaten in way too much.

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Shartnado

Shartnado

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2 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Should Shibata even be wrestling right now?

Absolutely not. That's what makes it such a huge deal. From a health standpoint, someone must have cleared him to do so, but obviously, it is not in his best interest.

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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1 minute ago, Craig H said:

Sure. Odd question coming from the guy who watches a lot of MMA where plenty of those guys have had their brains beaten in way too much.

Shibata literally had his brain removed, according to Dave Meltzer.

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Dog

Dog

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Should Shibata even be wrestling right now?

 

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

Sure.

 

2 hours ago, Shartnado said:

Absolutely not.

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Edited by Dog
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Matt D

Matt D

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Do I like Shibata?

Oh hey, I wrote up a Shibata match in 2017.

  

On 1/7/2017 at 10:49 AM, Matt D said:

You couldn't pay me to watch Omega vs Okada right now but I traded a watch of Shibata vs Goto (Well outside my wheelhouse) for them to write up Trevor Lee vs John Skyler (out of theirs, and another match where the commentary helps drive the narrative with the great "wrestling defensively" talking point), so here's my thoughts on that match at least.

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I'm not entirely sure how to tackle this. Let me try with two background comments and then to go from there.

 

Background comments:

1.) I have never seen Goto before and I've only seen one Shibata match, the tag vs Taue from far, far earlier in his career. I can connect those dots to some degree as both performances centered around a sense of attitude and full dedication to, if not a character, than an ideal. I do appreciate that.

2.) My understanding and enjoyment of this match was heavily colored by the commentary. I'm not 100% sure it's accurate. I'm not sure if the company gave them talking points or not. I'm not entirely sure that the crowd reactions they were describing at times were accurate. It didn't feel that way. I never got a sense that the crowd was disappointed in Goto. I also don't know if I'd consider the commentary objectively "good." It was, however, effective, in that I bought into the story they were telling and overlaid it over I was seeing. I may have understood this match very differently and engaged with it far less without the commentary.

 

Ultimately, I liked the first third and I liked the last third, and I was into the finish. I didn't know how this ended and the announcers built it up well enough (likely too well) and Shibata proved himself to be such a force in the match that I didn't think Goto was going to be able to pull it off. That's a testament to the total package, that I was engaged in the finish and popped at least a little for Goto overcoming what was presented to me as "the odds." 

 

With how the match was presented, I was absolutely okay with the early arm work being blown off. Here's why. As presented, everything in the first third, or so, until they started doing the corner run assaults back and forth, was Shibata bullying Goto, being disappointed in him, trying to wake him up and make him really fight, to awaken his inner spirit. As such, once it was obvious from the opening moments that this was not happening, Shibata went to the arm not to control him or break him down, but to show him what this match would be like if he didn't wake up. It was a form of bullying, of trying to push him. It was Shibata saying "If you're not going to really fight me, I'm not going to fight you. I'm just going to twist at this body part and break it down and there's nothing you can do about it." It was the pro wrestling equivalent of stuffing him in a locker basically and it made total sense to me that once Goto really started to fight, Shibata wouldn't go back to it. He didn't WANT to go back to it. He never wanted to go to it in the first place. He wanted the fight and by pushing him with the arm work, he got it.

 

I was ALSO okay with that corner back and forth with delayed selling. When it occurred, not enough damage had been done that I couldn't believe they wouldn't fight through it. The point of the match, at that point of the match, was that they were TRYING to fight through it. If they spent the next ten minutes acting that way I would have had problems with it but it led to a moment of selling. With that exchange, I was ok.

 

I was also okay with Shibata popping up. This is what he wanted, at least according to the commentary. This is what he reveled in. When it came to strikes, I could buy it to a degree. He was goading Goto. He was pushing Goto, and once he pushed him there, he had to show that it was his own turf, where he belonged. It wasn't quite "Cactus Jack loves pain!" but it was why he got out of bed this morning, and in that regard, it made sense for him to pop up and prove his toughness. With that bit, I was ok,

 

With the subsequent no selling of suplexes, I wasn't. That's where the match lost me. I was able to suspend my sense of disbelief, was able to go along for a ride that I don't usually enjoy going on due to the back story the announcers fed me, the fact I haven't seen this particular match six other times so it was novel, and the sense of commitment from both guys, but it all fell apart when the escalated things but still did the delayed, two-moves later, selling. I don't think it was necessary to tell the story they were trying to tell. I think they could have accomplished all the more by playing up the wear and tear on their bodies and having each move mean more at this point. 

 

And then, they more or less did just that, going into the forearm exchanges (which for once worked for the reasons I mentioned before), and the story that Shibata, MAYBE, shouldn't have woken a dragon when he was so banged up and when that dragon had whiplash inducing offense as his trademark/specialty. Every one of Goto's goofy flip moves was exactly the bane to Shibata's taped up neck and shoulders. And after every one, Shibata would try to fight his way back in it to the point where I thought he'd be just too much for Goto but Goto hung on and it was a nice little moment when he won it.

 

I'm fairly glad I saw this. I don't think it was five stars. I think watching Shibata would get old quickly. This style walks a definite tightrope of appropriateness and the line between grisly and awesome and believable and the whole thing just falling apart is very, very thin. Good on them for getting it back after it did, but the fact that it did in the first place was a problem to me. From a personal standpoint, I'm also not entirely comfortable having relied upon commentary so much for something I might not have seen or believed on my own.

 

Edited by Matt D
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Gordi the former AEW fan

Gordi the former AEW fan

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Mike Tyson talking over everyone while JR went on his usual disconnected mini-tangents was the awkward kind of funny. I loved that match though. Orange and Shibata are two very very different pro wrestlers, but they understand, know, get, and respect one another. Weirdly heart warming for something so violent. Hayter beating on Skye during pitcher in pitcher was absolutely the good stuff! Did Jericho piss in Regal's tea or something? Here I was complaining that AEW no longer panders directly to niche fans like me... Then they go and book Gates of Agony vs WarJoe. BMMSM. Joe in Peril! Was it Tony or Ex getting all worked up about Kaun's physique? I think It was Tony. It was definitely JR getting worked up about Toa's football background. Rampage blew Dynamite out of the water this week, in my opinion. Sammy vs Dragon 2 outa 3 will be HAWT!! Hobbs vs Wardlow gonna be maximum BMMSM. Bandido vs Roosh! Way to win me back over, AEW.

Edited by Gordlow
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DEAN

DEAN

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SHIBATTA! SHIBATTA!  SHIBATTA!  GO SIXTY!  This is going to be weird.  JANE!  Shibatta is fucking intense.  Oh, this match is fucking great.  So Orange Cassidy is the best all around wrestler in AEW.  I love that Mike Tyson knows more about Shibatta than everybody else.  Oh man, it's so good to see Shibatta wrestle again.  DEATH VALLEY DRIVER!  SECOND ORANGE PUNCH!  So fucking good.  SHIBATTA! SHIBATTA! SHIBATTA!  Oh man, I CAN'T WAIT for Shibatta versus Danielson.  JAMIE HAYTER!  HAYTER! HAYTER! HAYTER!  Skye Blue looks good in this.  In picture in picture, Britt Baker CHEATS!  AEW needs women's tag team titles for Baker and Hayter.  Blue is a good babyface in peril and God Knows that Hayter and Baker can beat her to the point that the crowd will get behind her STRUGGLE to escape the 1970s Glamour Girls ass beating that is being supplied.  The crowd doesn't dig Madison Rayne.  Hayter fucking CRUSHES Rayne with a Lariat!  Postmatch, Toni Storm and Jamie Hayter beat the living fudge out of each and the crowd comes alive.  Skye Blue looked good in this.  Hey!  It's the Gates Of Agony versus WardJoe!  I assume Powerhouse Hobbs and Brian Cage make an appearance postmatch.  BANDIDO VERSUS RUSH!  THAT will fucking rule.  Shibatta versus Samoa Joe would prolly be a very bad idea.  I love that Samoa Joe is Wahoo McDaniel now, with his knife edge chop being 80% of hi offense. Wardlow makes the Hot Tag and goes completely STEINER!  Kaun is the Booker T of the Gates o' Agony.  They also never actually win.  That was fun.  Shibatta!  AEW RULES THE WORLD!

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DEAN

DEAN

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4 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

Mike Tyson talking over everyone while JR went on his usual disconnected mini-tangents was the awkward kind of funny.

Tyson was SOOOO much better than JR.

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DEAN

DEAN

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1 minute ago, The Natural said:

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Eddie Kingston vs. Ricky Starks please and thank you. Thinking Bandido takes it. Have to say it's a weaker line-up compared to previous World Title Eliminator Tournament entries.

I don't know.  All of these look like they range from interesting to awesome.

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