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MLB OFFSEASON 2023


RIPPA

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Would Bochy have been eligible for this ballot if he was stayed retired? (He last managed the Giants in 2019 and I don’t know if the cutoff was 2018 or 2019)

Mike Scioscia seems like a guy who might need another good stint to get over the hump.

Dave Roberts is a few years away from having an interesting HOF case as a manager since he managed teams that won a lot but some people see him as a figurehead for the system.

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32 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Cito better get it. 

Based on what? He managed for 12 years and had 2 good years and was under .500 five times. I know he's got the two titles but, man, he did basically nothing else. 

Lemme put it another way - he's a guy that should be in Toronto's Ring of Fame or whatever. Local legend for two titles. Celebrated constantly, never has to buy a beer again. But an all-time great manager? Nah. 

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2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Would Bochy have been eligible for this ballot if he was stayed retired? (He last managed the Giants in 2019 and I don’t know if the cutoff was 2018 or 2019)

Mike Scioscia seems like a guy who might need another good stint to get over the hump.

Dave Roberts is a few years away from having an interesting HOF case as a manager since he managed teams that won a lot but some people see him as a figurehead for the system.

Rippa and I had to look up Scioscia.  He is just outside the cutoff for this ballot.  So Bochy would also be after the cutoff.  

And yeah.  It FEELS like Scioscia needs a more - like another title for sure, or 5 or so more years as manager.  I'm not in love with him as a candidate but you could lump him with Leyland, Piniella and Davey Johnson and he wouldn't feel that out of place.

I have no feel for Dave Roberts at all.  He's just a guy with a title and there are lots of them not in the Hall.  But I also have no feel for how modern managers are going to be evaluated after Francona, Dusty and Bochy get in.

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Cito is probably really hindered by not getting any jobs aside from Toronto.

I also forgot about the second Cito stint

Yeah.  Not getting a second real gig after the Jays went up in flames THEN his second Jays stint being bad does not put him in any kind of good light.  

Like Tabe said, there's really nothing there with Cito. 

Two rings?  Ralph Houk has that and is not in.  And Cito doesn't have the win totals to pump his record.

He was just a guy at the right place at the right time who was given an All Star team and was smart enough to not screw it up.  Good for him and Jays fans.  The flags fly forever.  That doesn't make you a HOFer though.

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another modern manager who might be one successful job away from getting into the conversation for the HOF? Joe Maddon. But the Angels thing probably moved him away from the Hall so he'd need his equivalent to a Jim Leyland run at the very least

as for how modern managers are evaluated, maybe there'll be more value to sticking around and having success in an era where there's less managerial control. But I'm of the POV that if certain things become less important for managers, the stuff that managers have to do becomes more important. So keeping clubhouses running smoothly is more important now since that's one thing that can't really be micromanaged

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5 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

another modern manager who might be one successful job away from getting into the conversation for the HOF? Joe Maddon. But the Angels thing probably moved him away from the Hall so he'd need his equivalent to a Jim Leyland run at the very least

as for how modern managers are evaluated, maybe there'll be more value to sticking around and having success in an era where there's less managerial control. But I'm of the POV that if certain things become less important for managers, the stuff that managers have to do becomes more important. So keeping clubhouses running smoothly is more important now since that's one thing that can't really be micromanaged

Yeah.  Maddon was on the path with the Cubs WS win.  Then the Cubs run went sideways.  No prob!  Dusty's Chicago managerial run went up in flames too!  A fella can rebound.  The the Angels run happened and he now is just Billy Martin without the bar fights.  Another run with a team he can turn around gets him into consideration.  Like if he could make Colorado a non-sinkhole then he clearly would be John McGraw 2.0 like he seems to think he is.

As to modern managers, I feel you're on the right track.  It's probably going to completely come down to evaluating guys who have really long tenures - regardless of records - and tons of post-season appearances since even writers are starting to grasp the post-season is a crapshoot.  That said, I sort of feel there will be a long stretch after the wave of Francona, Dusty, Bochy before we see a modern manager put in.

 

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It'll be like starting pitchers where some people probably think it'll be really hard to pick HOF pitchers since there'll be a fewer pitchers with huge win totals.. and then somehow they'll find guys to induct in time

until then, they might get around to inducting Tommy John to pass some time.

The only pitchers who pitched in the last 100 years with 250 wins who aren't in the hall are Clemens, Tommy John, Moyer, Verlander, Pettitte, and CC Sabathia. Two of those guys are on the roids blacklist. Moyer and John are probably penalized for pitching forever and just amassing stats. Verlander will be in. I think they'll induct CC.

After that group, there's Bartolo Colon with 247 wins who pitched forever and had a PED suspension that we all agreed to forget about because he's a goofy looking large guy.

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I have a soft spot for Moyer; it’s impressive to pitch that well across four different decades. I wish there was a Curiosities wing at the Hall of Fame for outliers like him and John.

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Ive always said there’s room in the Hall, esp having been there in July, to honor people with an exhibit without them being inducted. 
 

things like Bert Campaneris playing all 9 positions in a game or someone that hit 2 grand slams in one game or other oddities records.

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For reasons that are baffling - the Giants are interested in Bob Melvin as their manager so the Padres (who clearly can't believe their luck) have granted him permission to interview for the job

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On 10/22/2023 at 4:46 PM, RIPPA said:

For reasons that are baffling - the Giants are interested in Bob Melvin as their manager so the Padres (who clearly can't believe their luck) have granted him permission to interview for the job

The Giants are indeed gonna hire Melvin because they hate success

Official announcement won’t be until after the World Series

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Frank Howard - one of baseball's great forgotten mashers - passed away yesterday at the age of 87

I met Howard a couple of times at Old Timers Days/Card shows, etc... (he was a coach with the Yanks pretty much my entire time in High School)

I thought I was a large man... Howard put me to shame

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Twins TV broadcaster Dick Bremer - who has been calling Twins game since for what seems like the beginning of time - is stepping away from the booth

He will remain with the organization as "special assistant to the front office"

 

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