April 2023 Wrestling Discussion

[Cobra Commander]

15 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said:

Yeah, I fantasy booked it well knowing that Jannetty might not have been in the company at the time.

But the alternative is booking HBK against Hacksaw or someone like that, so I'll just also fantasy re-hire Jannetty in time to do the title switches for this show. 

Did we ever get heel HBK vs face Big Boss Man during HBK’s first year as a heel and BBM’s way out of the promotion?

[SirSmUgly]

1 minute ago, Cobra Commander said:

Did we ever get heel HBK vs face Big Boss Man during HBK’s first year as a heel and BBM’s way out of the promotion?

 

[zendragon]

4 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Do they have to say "quintessential stud muffin?" 

Better refer to my physique as “filleted”

3 hours ago, StarChief EagleDemon said:

It may be worthwhile to revisit the old wrestling saying: is they money in the chase anymore? Is the money in the catching now?

Or should we just say "the money is in the TV rights deals" in current times.

honestly yes. People act like Roman is a big star but much like Tom cruise is the last real movie star and the ip is what matters would some one else being in that spot really change things

[Elsalvajeloco]

Sorry for having not followed Gertner as closely post-ECW or watching a shoot interview, but why did Joel not eventually come over with the Dudley Boyz? I am guessing if they are heels, it would be too much of a face act? That and the intros would take almost 10 minutes? You couldn't trim off some time from those opening segments that ran until infinity?

That shit in 1999/2000 WWF would have gotten over to riot levels.

[Dolphman 3000]

12 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Sorry for having not followed Gertner as closely post-ECW or watching a shoot interview, but why did Joel not eventually come over with the Dudley Boyz? I am guessing if they are heels, it would be too much of a face act? That and the intros would take almost 10 minutes? You couldn't trim off some time from those opening segments that ran until infinity?

That shit in 1999/2000 WWF would have gotten over to riot levels.

Other than mouthpieces for talent who couldn't talk well or had a thick accent, Vince wasn't using managers by that point. Dudleyz came back to ECW in late-2000 as a one-off and had Gertner do their old intro, but they were already megastars at that point and just doing Heyman a favor

Edited April 4, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Elsalvajeloco]

10 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Other than mouthpieces for talent who couldn't talk well or had a thick accent, Vince wasn't using managers by that point. Dudleyz came back to ECW in late-2000 as a one-off and had Gertner do their old intro, but they were already megastars at that point and just doing Heyman a favor

Bearer was still around. He didn't do very much compared to the whole Kane/Mankind/Taker triumvirate in 1996-1998, but he was around. The period before Russo leave and before WCW goes out of business, there are a bunch of useless characters around in an ancillary role. There were mouthpieces around, but most of the mouthpieces weren't that good. 

For example, they brought back Bob Backlund for like 3 weeks to be around Angle. He had that gaffe on live TV, and they immediately stopped using him.

[Dolphman 3000]

17 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Bearer was still around. He didn't do very much compared to the whole Kane/Mankind/Taker triumvirate in 1996-1998, but he was around. The period before Russo leave and before WCW goes out of business, there are a bunch of useless characters around in an ancillary role. There were mouthpieces around, but most of the mouthpieces weren't that good. 

For example, they brought back Bob Backlund for like 3 weeks to be around Angle. He had that gaffe on live TV, and they immediately stopped using him.

Ok I found it - Gertner says he signed a contract with ECW in May 1999 because Heyman promised him the color commentator role for ECW on TNN. Says the Dudleyz tried to talk him out of it, and that Terry Taylor called from WWE and approached him about coming in as manager for Public Enemy:

 

[tbarrie]

3 hours ago, Raziel said:

I'm about 95% sure that was Backlund's first pinfall loss in WWF period...

I remember Pro Wrestling Illustrated, later that year, commenting that Razor was involved in the two biggest upsets of the year: beating Backlund and losing to the 1-2-3 Kid.

My friends at the time didn't see the former as an upset, though.

[zendragon]

Even by attitude era standards the would have to really clean up the act of the QSM

[Elsalvajeloco]

24 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Ok I found it - Gertner says he signed a contract with ECW in May 1999 because Heyman promised him the color commentator role for ECW on TNN. Says the Dudleyz tried to talk him out of it, and that Terry Taylor called from WWE and approached him about coming in as manager for Public Enemy

He's right that it probably would have been death had he been saddled with PE especially five years after the height of the gimmick. However, based on how Joel answered that question and being unsure of the timeline of events, it makes it sound like he had that decision in his hands and just simply made the wrong one. Nothing wrong with that cause he didn't have the benefit of hindsight (plus ECW didn't really start circling the drain until like midway through the 2000), but that's gotta be a kick in the pants when he's seeing (as I've mentioned) random people doing absolutely nothing compared to what he was doing in ECW on WWF programming when they're doing insane TV ratings.

13 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

I remember Pro Wrestling Illustrated, later that year, commenting that Razor was involved in the two biggest upsets of the year: beating Backlund and losing to the 1-2-3 Kid.

My friends at the time didn't see the former as an upset, though.

Keep in mind, Kid beat DiBiase on Challenge in August IIRC thanks to Razor (setting up Razor vs. DiBiase at SummerSlam) and then the next month Razor also helped PJ Walker beat IRS (building toward Razor vs. IRS at the Rumble 94). 

[porksweats]

24 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Ok I found it - Gertner says he signed a contract with ECW in May 1999 because Heyman promised him the color commentator role for ECW on TNN. Says the Dudleyz tried to talk him out of it, and that Terry Taylor called from WWE and approached him about coming in as manager for Public Enemy:

 

He would've definitely transitioned over to the Dudley's manager once PE flamed out. I really think that's the only reason the Dudleys were brought in in the first place, to replace a failed Public Enemy.

[Cobra Commander]

33 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Terry Taylor called from WWE and approached him about coming in as manager for Public Enemy

which turned out to not exactly be a spot that would have lasted long

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Even by attitude era standards the would have to really clean up the act of the QSM

You're right, but even post Russo, they're walking up to the line and basically seeing how far they can go without slightly stepping over it. Watching some of this stuff back, they were straddling the shit out of the line though either way.

I wonder where the real change came in at. I am guessing that TNN refused to let WWF go to the same levels they had on USA (and sometimes UPN).

6 minutes ago, porksweats said:

He would've definitely transitioned over to the Dudley's manager once PE flamed out. I really think that's the only reason the Dudleys were brought in in the first place, to replace a failed Public Enemy.

I dunno. Maybe you're correct, but one act was gaining serious steam and the other one had already failed miserably in Atlanta and noted as a one hit wonder. By the time they got to New York, WWF was branching back out of the Northeast and becoming a global product once again. I'll let you decide which one was which.

I think ECW had already peaked by the time they got the TV deal, but some of those acts were over enough that it would have been an easy transition to WWF. You hear the crazy pop Taz got at MSG for his debut against Angle and wonder where Paul fucked it up. 

[Cobra Commander]

So, to sorta tiptoe towards last night/Sunday night.... is crowd heat that isn't anger towards the booking decisions pretty much impossible unless people start deciding to play along?

in less 'civilized' times, the outrage of fans would be more towards what they're seeing as opposed to what they know/think the backstage decisions were... like Brock attacking Cody last night would have caused people to boo and throw things in some periods of time as opposed to just sitting on their hands or being mad at the booking.

[Dolphman 3000]

9 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

So, to sorta tiptoe towards last night/Sunday night.... is crowd heat that isn't anger towards the booking decisions pretty much impossible unless people start deciding to play along?

in less 'civilized' times, the outrage of fans would be more towards what they're seeing as opposed to what they know/think the backstage decisions were... like Brock attacking Cody last night would have caused people to boo and throw things in some periods of time as opposed to just sitting on their hands or being mad at the booking.

It's the one RAW per year where fans have paid thousands of dollars to fly in from all over the world to see what direction the company will take after WrestleMania

That silence was the sound of regret

[dragonzombie]

WWE stock is up

97.23 USD +7.93 (8.88%)today

[supremebve]

4 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

So, to sorta tiptoe towards last night/Sunday night.... is crowd heat that isn't anger towards the booking decisions pretty much impossible unless people start deciding to play along?

in less 'civilized' times, the outrage of fans would be more towards what they're seeing as opposed to what they know/think the backstage decisions were... like Brock attacking Cody last night would have caused people to boo and throw things in some periods of time as opposed to just sitting on their hands or being mad at the booking.

This is a really good question. I honestly think the current heat towards the booking is the best possible kind of heat. It means that people are engaged and care about the story you are telling. People might not like the outcome,  but they are cheering the faces and booing the heels. It's been a really long time since the storytelling in WWE was aligned with how the fans reacted to the characters. If the audience is mad at something the heel did to the babyface,  that's a step in the right direction even if they are more angry at the booker's story than the heel's actions.  They shouldn't be concerned if there is a loud negative reaction,  they should shit the bed if they get a quiet negative reaction. Engaged and angry is good,  disengaged and angry is bad. 

[For Great Justice]

EDIT: a lot of Raw/WWE talk in my response, and didn’t realize we locked that thread. Will post over there when it re-opens.

Edited April 4, 2023 by For Great Justice

[dragonzombie]

Seems Bayley is getting the Sasha Banks goodbye treatment in WWE, so she's signed with WWE but off TV until her contract is up.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

53 minutes ago, Red King said:

Seems Bayley is getting the Sasha Banks goodbye treatment in WWE, so she's signed with WWE but off TV until her contract is up.

Speculation that no actual reporter has reported or is claiming. SRS said it’s possible Bayley might ask for her release. He nor Meltzer said anything about her permanently being removed from TV. But please run more blind items as you think them up.

[Dolphman 3000]

1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Engaged and angry is good,  disengaged and angry is bad. 

Raven describing the ECW Arena fans turning on the crucifixion angle as "quiet Japanese heat" instead of acknowledging their largely Christian fanbase getting upset is still hilarious

[dragonzombie]

1 minute ago, LF2 said:

Speculation that no actual reporter has reported or is claiming. SRS said it’s possible Bayley might ask for her release. He nor Meltzer said anything about her permanently being removed from TV. But please run more blind items as you think them up.

Thought you were gonna ignore me pal. Everyone online thinks she's done, with her goodbye and other saying goodbye to her and the new beginning statement used for Damage Control.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

How many people that have been brought back are fucking kicking themselves today? Bronson Reed had a solid thing going with a New Japan push. Vince is back and he's certainly going to fade into a Main Event guy. Karion Cross better have had the foresight to write a no gladiator helmet clause into his deal. Regal is certainly not going to be Vince's Head of Talent Development. Vince says he's just going to be the overview guy and not get into the weeds. The overview guy doesn't get on the headsets. The overview guy doesn't order re-writes.

Triple H's WWE was a mirage. And anyone who jumped at the chance to go back had better have not burned any bridges to do so.

And since the Raw thread was closed I'm gonna throw some thoughts in here about that. There were a lot of poster getting mad at people watching the show that don't normally watch having opinions. The Raw after Wrestlemania has traditionally been (up until the past 4 or 5 years) been the most exciting episode of the year. That is the perfect jumping back on point to see if you enjoy the vibe. Getting mad that people who have tuned out have thoughts when they tune in is silly.

They had 2.3 million viewers. And what trended on Twitter? Worst Raw ever. They decided a few years back they don't want fly in smart mark crowds dictating who is allowed to get over, so they stopped the call ups and surprise returns. It's now a normal episode of Raw. And a whole bunch of people that aren't aware of that feel let down. I'm not even someone who was mad at Roman winning at WM. But that episode was the best follow up they could give us? A full on bait & switch of a match most people were probably intrigued to see. And a whole lot of absolutely nothing of note happening. Sorry but there's literally no reason to praise that episode or snap at people who didn't enjoy it.

WWE TV is mostly a content churn. And the post WM Raw used to be an exception to that. Not anymore. The sooner we all accept that's not the case anymore, the sooner we'll be better off.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

8 minutes ago, Red King said:

Thought you were gonna ignore me pal. Everyone online thinks she's done, with her goodbye and other saying goodbye to her and the new beginning statement used for Damage Control.

Then why is nobody of any worth reporting it? And not “everyone” believes it. Just because the resident horny for every Japanese female wrestler fan on this forum posts it doesn’t make it a fact. Face it you’re doing your usual trolling only this time you don’t have anyone to steal news from. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

The thing with Meltzer and I think most people have come around on this now is that he severely underrates WWE matches and he also has biases towards a lot of high spots.  He even says that in his old reviews that he liked this or that because of how many high spots it had. He really hasn't changed much.  

So if you know that going in,  it's easier to read his reviews and just be like ok cool.. and move on.  Everyone has their biases. If there's an NXT/WWE multi person match and there's virtually no story but a ton of cool spots, it's getting probably 4 stars maybe even 4.5 stars.    If the same match happens in AEW or Japan he might go the full 5.  That's Dave.