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2022 WRESTLERS LEAVING COMPANIES THREAD (Releases, FAs, etc...)


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9 minutes ago, AxB said:

Is Smoke and Mirrors a CFO$ tune? Because if it is, it’s probably not coming back.

It was not. TV/TV was the band who did the original and Jim Johnston was credited on the later remixes. Personally always thought the original was the best.

 

Although, Downstait did cover it as well so that's possible

Spoiler

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gordlow said:

Hawt take: it's OK to value sincerity, even within a traditionally insincere business.

 

Thanks for saying that.  I probably should have just said it like that instead of coming on too strong with my opinion.  Note to everyone here: do not have a strong opinion on a wrestler’s behavior, lest someone label you as having a parasocial relationship.  

Edited by Technico Support
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3 hours ago, Gordlow said:

Hawt take: it's OK to value sincerity, even within a traditionally insincere business.

Something to consider: The things we're sincere about can change over time, and the things we used to be sincere about we can no longer believe in, but we may not need to update the world when our feelings change.

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It's very disrespectful of Flash Morgan Webster, to choose a name with those initials. Also, dude is doing a Mod gimmick, but didn't shave off his pandemic beard once NXT-UK tapings started back up. 

He's OK. He's an NXT UK wrestler, it's the same story with almost all of them. He wrestles like a man who is passionless, and not quite able to take himself seriously. 

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Octo-Thoughts

I guess I don’t feel inconsistencies with Cody wanting more creative control and then signing with the WWE. He wanted his backstage role to be the same/ what it was when the company started and he felt he was worth X. Tony Kahn as the owner of AEW wanted him to have less of a role with creative and felt his worth was Y.  In the negotiations, which we don’t know specifics, they couldn’t come to an agreement. The WWE also does not offer creative power (very safe to assume) but their offer of Z is much more appealing then Y. X was his goal, but without the perks, Z was better for him and his family. A family which now has a baby and I can’t judge someone’s family decision. I don’t see any of this as selling out. Maybe if he was actually offered X and was vocal about wanting that and still took Z, but they didn’t agree to the terms for X. 

Now, why specifically go to WWE? It seems odd being anti-WWE. A few factors make more understandable for me.

- Talks fell apart with AEW. Where else would he be able to go for the money he wants? He could bet on himself again and try and meet another lifelong wrestling obsessive who is also in a billionaire family. He could retire, but I don’t know his expenses and what the money is tied up in. If he has a specific number for what he feels he is worth, then WWE is the only other option.

- HHH is supposedly on the outs. He smashed a throne with a hammer, not a  large muscular picture of Vince in Zumba pants. Maybe he feels his position with the company will be better with Bruce and the gang. 

- Did he feel he was wanted in AEW? Both by ownership and the fans. He was getting booed and his recent segments (assuming they were his idea) were heavily criticized and panned. It hurt his positioning on contract negotiations but also if I was in his shoes, I’d maybe want a fresh start. Yes, back to WWE sounds funny as a fresh start. However, he has a new coat of paint on him and the landscape of WWE is different. If Seth or whoever puts him over in a surprise match at WrestleMania, he would be viewed as a legitimate Upper Mid-card superstar even to audiences that are not familiar with AEW.

 

As for upside and downside. I’m pessimistic enough to feel that even with the best intentions, his run could likely be butchered. I will say that after everything since All Out, I won’t bet against Cody. 

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If he goes to WWE and his segments suck, he can at least claim that it was the writers. Whereas in AEW, with the power (we think) he had, it all falls on him and him alone.

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7 hours ago, Technico Support said:

 

I'm not sure if I'm not expressing myself properly or if you guys are reading things into what I'm saying that aren't there.  I just have a real distaste for a wrestler being "carny" now.   I don't care if any wrestler is just out for money instead of "love of the game."  I just don't like guys just straight up lying every second they're in public.  This is no better than Hogan.  I stopped listening to Prichard's podcast when it became crystal clear he's just a carny liar and paying any attention to him is a waste of time.  This is the same thing.  If you're cool with it and that's just rasslers being rasslers, we just disagree.

 

I have very bad news for you but kayfabe is alive and well, it just shifted from convincing you what is happening in-ring is 100% legit to convincing you that the person they project outside the ring and online is 100% legit, that they are just like you and you should buy their stuff. If this is legitimately a big deal for you then you secretly should probably hate a large number of your favorite wrestlers.

 

Granted my personal approach/advice is to just not go pulling on strings if you don't want to see what it'll reveal so we might actually be largely in agreement on that, but yeah we don't know what the vast majority of wrestlers are "really" like and shouldn't pretend that we do.

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In my experience, a lot of wrestlers are genuinely nice people.

Not always. I have personally seen Dynamite Kid curse out some children who asked him where Matilda was. I heard some very nasty rumours about how one wrestler who became nationally known behaved when he was working in the Vancouver territory. I have heard pro wrestling old-timers tell stories that they thought were very amusing but which seemed to me horrific.

On the other hand, I have had many more very positive experiences hanging out with pro wrestlers than negative ones. I can state with absolute confidence that not all current pro wrestlers are carny assholes who are only out for money. 

Abdullah the Butcher and Akira Hokuto both have reputations for being unfriendly to fans. Maybe there some truth to that... but both of them were extremely kind and friendly to me when I had the good fortune of meeting them. Well above and beyond ordinary politeness. So, my tendency is to think that people may not be kind enough in their assessment of some pro wrestler's actual personalities, rather than to assume the opposite. 

I have zero problem believing that the nice guy persona that Bryan Danielson portrays is a reflection of the thoughtful, positive, legitimately good dude that he is out of the spotlight. I've been in the same room as him a few times, spoken with him at length, seen how he treats other people... It's a small sample size, but I have never seen him do anything that would make me suspect he's not a genuinely warm and decent human being.

I think Danielson, Kingston, and Mox (to name three) have all given us glimpses of their true selves, recently.

I'm good friends with  a handful of wrestlers, on the Vancouver and Osaka scenes, and some of them at their worst are better than many people at their very best. 

Here is a very partial list of wrestlers who have been extraordinarily kind or friendly to me when they didn't stand to gain a single dime from it:

 

John Tenta, Bad News Allen, Gene Okerlund, Atsushi Onita, Bob Sapp, Asian Cooger. Ebessans 1 and 3, Tigers Mask, Chono, Irie, Akiyama, Apple Miyuki,  Dump Matsumoyo, Joe Doering, Tajiri, Mr. Hito, Kotoge, Harada, Tadasuke, Zeus, Bodyguard, Superstar Billy Graham...

 

So many positive experiences and happy memories over so many years.

 

It's cool that there's a diversity of opinion w/r/t how much importance we wanna place on wrestlers being sincere. 

It's fair to paint pro wrestling as a business with carny roots based on dishonesty and taking the marks for all they are worth.

However, my point of view is that many of us might be very pleasantly surprised by what many our current favourite wrestlers are like in real life. My experience is that the once-notoriously-carny business has an awful lot of very nice people working in it these days.

 

Edited by Gordlow
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Cody may be a tedious geek with an inflated and mercurial sense regarding his own creative powers, but he is — according to everything we’ve seen reported — one of those good and kind people. 

Were I to guess — and that’s what this is, so maybe I just shouldn’t — I’d say he suffers not from an excess of carny cravenness as much as genuine flighty earnestness. I suspect he meant all the anti-WWE rhetoric when he portrayed it, but ended up feeling jilted and under appreciated by AEW and its fans. 

Edited by Beech27
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31 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

In my experience, a lot of wrestlers are genuinely nice people.

Not always. I have personally seen Dynamite Kid curse out some children who asked him where Matilda was. I heard some very nasty rumours about how one wrestler who became nationally known behaved when he was working in the Vancouver territory. I have heard pro wrestling old-timers tell stories that they thought were very amusing but which seemed to me horrific.

On the other hand, I have had many more very positive experiences hanging out with pro wrestlers than negative ones. I can state with absolute confidence that not all current pro wrestlers are carny assholes who are only out for money. 

Abdullah the Butcher and Akira Hokuto both have reputations for being unfriendly to fans. Maybe there some truth to that... but both of them were extremely kind and friendly to me when I had the good fortune of meeting them. Well above and beyond ordinary politeness. So, my tendency is to think that people may not be kind enough in their assessment of some pro wrestler's actual personalities, rather than to assume the opposite. 

I have zero problem believing that the nice guy persona that Bryan Danielson portrays is a reflection of the thoughtful, positive, legitimately good dude that he is out of the spotlight. I've been in the same room as him a few times, spoken with him at length, seen how he treats other people... It's a small sample size, but I have never seen him do anything that would make me suspect he's not a genuinely warm and decent human being.

I think Danielson, Kingston, and Mox (to name three) have all given us glimpses of their true selves, recently.

I'm good friends with  a handful of wrestlers, on the Vancouver and Osaka scenes, and some of them at their worst are better than many people at their very best. 

Here is a very partial list of wrestlers who have been extraordinarily kind or friendly to me when they didn't stand to gain a single dime from it:

 

John Tenta, Bad News Allen, Gene Okerlund, Atsushi Onita, Bob Sapp, Asian Cooger. Ebessans 1 and 3, Tigers Mask, Chono, Irie, Akiyama, Apple Miyuki,  Dump Matsumoyo, Joe Doering, Tajiri, Mr. Hito, Kotoge, Harada, Tadasuke, Zeus, Bodyguard, Superstar Billy Graham...

 

So many positive experiences and happy memories over so many years.

 

It's cool that there's a diversity of opinion w/r/t how much importance we wanna place on wrestlers being sincere. 

It's fair to paint pro wrestling as a business with carny roots based on dishonesty and taking the marks for all they are worth.

However, my point of view is that many of us might be very pleasantly surprised by what many our current favourite wrestlers are like in real life. My experience is that the once-notoriously-carny business has an awful lot of very nice people working in it these days.

 

Cheers for sharing. Glad Bryan Danielson is great as a person as he appears to be. I love the guy. We don't get opportunity to meet wrestlers as much over here plus the travelling/standing in line with the CP.

Edited by The Natural
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7 hours ago, Gordlow said:

In my experience, a lot of wrestlers are genuinely nice people.

Not always. I have personally seen Dynamite Kid curse out some children who asked him where Matilda was. I heard some very nasty rumours about how one wrestler who became nationally known behaved when he was working in the Vancouver territory. I have heard pro wrestling old-timers tell stories that they thought were very amusing but which seemed to me horrific.

On the other hand, I have had many more very positive experiences hanging out with pro wrestlers than negative ones. I can state with absolute confidence that not all current pro wrestlers are carny assholes who are only out for money. 

Abdullah the Butcher and Akira Hokuto both have reputations for being unfriendly to fans. Maybe there some truth to that... but both of them were extremely kind and friendly to me when I had the good fortune of meeting them. Well above and beyond ordinary politeness. So, my tendency is to think that people may not be kind enough in their assessment of some pro wrestler's actual personalities, rather than to assume the opposite. 

I have zero problem believing that the nice guy persona that Bryan Danielson portrays is a reflection of the thoughtful, positive, legitimately good dude that he is out of the spotlight. I've been in the same room as him a few times, spoken with him at length, seen how he treats other people... It's a small sample size, but I have never seen him do anything that would make me suspect he's not a genuinely warm and decent human being.

I think Danielson, Kingston, and Mox (to name three) have all given us glimpses of their true selves, recently.

I'm good friends with  a handful of wrestlers, on the Vancouver and Osaka scenes, and some of them at their worst are better than many people at their very best. 

Here is a very partial list of wrestlers who have been extraordinarily kind or friendly to me when they didn't stand to gain a single dime from it:

 

John Tenta, Bad News Allen, Gene Okerlund, Atsushi Onita, Bob Sapp, Asian Cooger. Ebessans 1 and 3, Tigers Mask, Chono, Irie, Akiyama, Apple Miyuki,  Dump Matsumoyo, Joe Doering, Tajiri, Mr. Hito, Kotoge, Harada, Tadasuke, Zeus, Bodyguard, Superstar Billy Graham...

 

So many positive experiences and happy memories over so many years.

 

It's cool that there's a diversity of opinion w/r/t how much importance we wanna place on wrestlers being sincere. 

It's fair to paint pro wrestling as a business with carny roots based on dishonesty and taking the marks for all they are worth.

However, my point of view is that many of us might be very pleasantly surprised by what many our current favourite wrestlers are like in real life. My experience is that the once-notoriously-carny business has an awful lot of very nice people working in it these days.

 

Yeah, I'm going to side with this.  Youth mistakes cynicism for wisdom.

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17 hours ago, Technico Support said:

LOL so we should expect all wrestlers to always be working us and just constantly lying, even in a non-wrestling context.  Got it.

I literally alluded to Cody representing this old time conman mindset and said I'm glad he's out of AEW.  I don't think it's "backwards" to hope for better of wrestlers, in 2022, to not be carny dirtbags. 

exactly!! I am so sick of "well it's wrestling they have always been carny"  bullshit!!  I know so many kind hearted people in wrestling that aren't just in it for themselves or for money. People that absolutely enjoy the work they do.  It's 2022, not 1982.    The locker rooms, the vibes, totally different.  Video games,twitter, and instagram, have replaced  booze, cards, and pills.  Wrestlers now are making great money with less travel as well. Cody has a newborn with the AEW deal he would probably have more time with her than he's going to with WWE. It's not even debatable. 

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10 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Something to consider: The things we're sincere about can change over time, and the things we used to be sincere about we can no longer believe in, but we may not need to update the world when our feelings change.

while you are correct in saying this, this is also why you don't burn bridges. Especially on live TV!!  Cody had a choice. In fact it was his own idea to do it. Yes people can be forgiven but people acting as if he is a fucking saint is cringe,   

WWE gave him the goofy gimmic, he did well in getting it over. Hell Dustin was given a worse gimmic but how many people prefer Golddust to Dustin Rhodes?  

Watch Scott Halls Youshoot video.  He flat out says he would have been a GI Joe character if that's what Vince wanted.

Good workers can make any gimmic work.   He complained and tried to trash the company that gave him his first big break and now he is crawling back to them.  

But what happens when Cody is unhappy again? Where does he go? Back to AEW?  And more importantly what will you all say when he does?

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9 hours ago, AxB said:

If he goes to WWE and his segments suck, he can at least claim that it was the writers. Whereas in AEW, with the power (we think) he had, it all falls on him and him alone.

he should come in and give a heart felt promo. Then out of nowhere lights go out and Polka dots show up on the Tron.  Flashbacks to Dashing Cody Rhodes come back on the Tron, Stardust flashbacks show up after that.  It consumes Cody.  It drives his anger and he becomes a vicious heel hell bent on proving everyone wrong.   This is what I want to see. Cody driven mad by the previous gimmics and doing everything he can to win the big one on his own as the American Nightmare.  

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2 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

while you are correct in saying this, this is also why you don't burn bridges. Especially on live TV!!  Cody had a choice. In fact it was his own idea to do it. Yes people can be forgiven but people acting as if he is a fucking saint is cringe,   

WWE gave him the goofy gimmic, he did well in getting it over. Hell Dustin was given a worse gimmic but how many people prefer Golddust to Dustin Rhodes?  

Watch Scott Halls Youshoot video.  He flat out says he would have been a GI Joe character if that's what Vince wanted.

Good workers can make any gimmic work.   He complained and tried to trash the company that gave him his first big break and now he is crawling back to them.  

But what happens when Cody is unhappy again? Where does he go? Back to AEW?  And more importantly what will you all say when he does?

You would have really hated Ricky Steamboat in the late-1980s and early-1990s, when he would leave a company and complain about his treatment, then a couple of years later be working for the same exact company.

Look, I can't make someone's personal business decisions for them, nor am I really in a position to judge what their decisions should be. If Cody Rhodes feels going to WWE is the right choice for him, then so be it. It has no bearing on me personally.

There really is no such thing as "burning bridges" in wrestling either. Wrestling is not a normal business. Eric Bischoff tried to put Vince McMahon out of business for years, then eighteen months after his company crashed and burned, he was working for WWE. Wrestling is a business where if people think there's money to be made, they're going to try and make it.  That's just the reality of how wrestling has worked for decades and decades.

And really... that's how pretty much all entertainment fields work. I'm not sure if that's a cynical take or not, maybe someone will judge me for it, but history has shown that if people in an entertainment field think there is money to be made, they're going to try and make it.

If you think that's wrong, so be it. I can't make your ethical choices for you. But on the scale of things to have an ethical crisis about, Cody Rhodes saying he disliked his former employer and is now returning to go work for them is a pretty strange thing to have one about.

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19 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Says the person with the most cynical possible view of a certain someone. 

The guy working a message board gimmick in 2022 is judging me.  Fuck, dude, at least I'm genuine.

I'm judging Cody by his actual documented words and actions.  That's a little different than saying "all these people are carnies and they're working all you marks."  

Edited by Technico Support
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Not to speak for @Technico Support, but I think the point is that Cody was sooooo outspoken about tearing down everything WWE stands for.  That was like his entire persona in early AEW.  That's a lot different than being like, "man, it sucks working here" and then coming back later when the grass isn't greener.

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