NOV 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Casey]

The match-ups aren’t anything you wouldn’t see on a Smackdown. The only thing different was the “Versus” screen during the matches and Dustin Rhodes being the Natural.

[mattdangerously]

This place is crawling with Dustin Rhodes marks.  Hell yeah we want to see that.

[Guest Edwin]

This is one of those things that should never exist...

[odessasteps]

The board might break if Ric does a record with Pitbull. 

[Guest Edwin]

5 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

The board might break if Ric does a record with Pitbull. 

At this point, that’s a possibility...

[Victator]

2 hours ago, BubblegumRogue said:

Always loved the SS 88 tag team tag match. The double turn with Powers Of Pain and the Demos was so very well done.

I found the last half of the match fell apart because of the Conquistadors. I like them but they should not have been surviving the barrage the Powers were dumping on them. They could have handled the turn better. On the PPV broadcast it almost looks like Fuji is turning face. For some reason as a kid, I thought the TV recap said Fuji used a magic spell to corrupt the Powers. 

Fuji was a bold dude. Dump your tag champs for a new team and make an open challenge to a fresh Hulk Hogan on behalf of your blown up champion. 

Survivor Series 89 has the 4X4s (Team Hacksaw) vs The King's Court where Ronnie Garvin put in a great performance. 

90 has the Visionaries vs The Vipers in a match that is a personal favorite. It was worked perfectly with Jake's team slowly being dismantled. One sliver of hope came with Jake destroying Warlord with the DDT and then he chases Martel to get counted out. 

I have a odd love for Team Slaughter vs Team Volkoff from the same show. He cuts this incredibly hateful promo on the troops. Piper on commentary seemed legit pissed off and it fed into the whole thing. Then Slaughter's team gets picked off (shit its Boris and the Orient Express) then Slaughter takes out the opposing team by himself. Well up to Tito and he gets DQ'ed. Because they did not want Slaughter near Hogan or Warrior. 

I still think the Grand Finale was a great idea. You just divy the teams up as blue and red or black and white. Here it was dripping with politics. I think this was the first time the insecure Hogan appeared. Before this he always shared the spotlight. Here he is cutting Warrior's legs off of him. I think he could have just blocked the Power Plex instead of no selling it. Tito eliminating Warlord was a cool moment. 

Team Bischoff vs Team Austin at Survivor Series 2003 is great. The good thing was you are not sure who was winning. I was actually leaning toward Austin at the time. So the finish caught me off guard. 

[Casey]

17 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

This place is crawling with Dustin Rhodes marks.  Hell yeah we want to see that.

So nostalgia is okay when it panders to early 90s WCW marks because house show business is down, but bad when it’s for people who grew up in the Attitude Era and actually makes tickets to a WrestleMania sell faster? Got it.

[Brian Fowler]

4 minutes ago, Casey said:

So nostalgia is okay when it panders to early 90s WCW marks because house show business is down, but bad when it’s for people who grew up in the Attitude Era and actually makes tickets to a WrestleMania sell faster? Got it.

One, it was one time with one guy who is on the active full time roster.

Two, attitude era nostalgia gets played to all the fucking time. We don't get thrown a bone very often.

[Victator]

1 minute ago, Brian Fowler said:

One, it was one time with one guy who is on the active full time roster.

Two, attitude era nostalgia gets played to all the fucking time. We don't get thrown a bone very often.

Seriously Dustin is a full time roster member and is super over regardless of his push. They are misusing him. He also checks the box for Attitude Era too. 
 

[odessasteps]

It's not really nostalgia if it gets brought up all the time, right?

I mean, if they had war games for a decade instead of inventing the elimination chamber, people would not have been so excited about it coming back this year. 

[Casey]

So I’m supposed to believe if Haku was trotted out every WrestleMania season for the past few years that everyone who loves older WCW would complain about it because it’s worn out it’s welcome?

and Dustin wasn’t the only nostalgia act there. Steamboat, Rock ‘n Roll Express, Arn Anderson... I mean, you guys can laugh all you want, but there’s an air of hypocrisy here when we’re bashing WWE relying on stars of yesteryear to bolster business and then they have a house show in what used to be NWA territory, named after an old WCW event, with some WCW/NWA names - and suddenly it’s okay and everyone wants to watch a house show with regular Smackdown matches that happen to feature a few seconds of people you guys grew up watching.

[Craig H]

6 minutes ago, Casey said:

So I’m supposed to believe if Haku was trotted out every WrestleMania season for the past few years that everyone who loves older WCW would complain about it because it’s worn out it’s welcome?

and Dustin wasn’t the only nostalgia act there. Steamboat, Rock ‘n Roll Express, Arn Anderson... I mean, you guys can laugh all you want, but there’s an air of hypocrisy here when we’re bashing WWE relying on stars of yesteryear to bolster business and then they have a house show in what used to be NWA territory, named after an old WCW event, with some WCW/NWA names - and suddenly it’s okay and everyone wants to watch a house show with regular Smackdown matches that happen to feature a few seconds of people you guys grew up watching.

Yeah, how dare we want to watch wrestling with something unique in it, for WWE that is. And it was already explained to you why this is different. Is there a bit of a double standard when it comes to that? Sure, but there's reason behind it. Not everything needs to be black and white.

Also, you explained in your comment what is unique about this particular event that we wanted to see. I bolded it for you.

So are we bad for wanting to see this? I'm reading your comments and it's almost like you think we should just move on and not talk about it or have the desire to see it.

[Brian Fowler]

I don't know if Meng showing up would wear out it's welcome BECAUSE IT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENS.

You seriously can't see a difference between the guys and time period they bring up every single year and guys who and an era that they've basically reduced down to "Ric Flair" gets one night?

They constantly cater to attitude era fans, to the point where it's not even really nostalgia, it's how they sell their biggest show every single year (and, honestly, I'm not even someone who bitches about it. I love Triple H and Undertaker) but pre-Hogan WCW (which, btw, doesn't even really include Meng, he showed up around the same time the Hulkster did and is very much part of the Monday Night Wars era) is a bastard stepchild WWE rarely likes to acknowledge outside of the occasional Hall of Fame induction.

[DeathyBoy]

If we're not allowed to be happy that, even with his career ending injury, Anderson can still nail the best spinebuster ever and roll out of the ring like a fucking boss...

 

[Casey]

I’m just trying to wrap my head around when it’s unique, I guess. All that happened was Dustin Rhodes working a match against a Revival member in his old WCW gimmick, Arn Anderson giving Dolph Ziggler a spinebuster, and appearances by Steamboat and the Rock ‘n Roll Express. Besides that, the matches weren’t anything that wouldn’t be on Smackdown Live - and the “unique” part was the event name and the (admittedly pretty awesome) match-up title card on the mini-tron during the matches.

None of that really screams to me, “this should have been on the Network, goddamnit, they’re burning money by not showing this!”

[Brian Fowler]

I don't think any of us feel they left money on the table.

I think those of us who find the name Starrcade special would've liked to have watched Starrcade. They hyped this show more than most house shows, gave it a legendary name, booked a few things that are unique... And then didn't let us see it.

[odessasteps]

Was trying to think if they could anything similar around the country:

a superclash in the twin cities?

something in Dallas, New Orleans, Tampa, Portland, Calgary?

maybe Memphis, but they don’t own the IP. 

Putting a one-hour special on the network seems like best solution. That would get you a few of the matches and some legends video packages. 

[Casey]

They didn’t want anyone to see Rusev be the 2nd most over person on the entire show, obviously. 

[Victator]

19 minutes ago, Casey said:

I’m just trying to wrap my head around when it’s unique, I guess. All that happened was Dustin Rhodes working a match against a Revival member in his old WCW gimmick, Arn Anderson giving Dolph Ziggler a spinebuster, and appearances by Steamboat and the Rock ‘n Roll Express.

Because its not done all the time or even every year so it still feels special. How is that a hard concept to grasp? 

I think people would have liked to have seen it at least on tape delay. Since the camera are already there and Corey Graves could crap out commentary in an afternoon. They could do the same thing with MSG shows. They complicate this shit too much. 

[OSJ]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

I’m just trying to wrap my head around when it’s unique, I guess. All that happened was Dustin Rhodes working a match against a Revival member in his old WCW gimmick, Arn Anderson giving Dolph Ziggler a spinebuster, and appearances by Steamboat and the Rock ‘n Roll Express. Besides that, the matches weren’t anything that wouldn’t be on Smackdown Live - and the “unique” part was the event name and the (admittedly pretty awesome) match-up title card on the mini-tron during the matches.

None of that really screams to me, “this should have been on the Network, goddamnit, they’re burning money by not showing this!”

@Casey, first of all let's dispense with this "the guys you grew up watching" stuff, Steamboat is my senior by four years, Ricky Morton is a year older than I and  Arn Anderson is a year younger, and I recall very well watching Dustin's first TV match; so it's pretty hard to write these guys off as the ones I grew up watching. We old NWA and WCW fans aren't the demographic that VKM is chasing, although lots of us have disposable income and he may be missing something by not throwing us a bone more often. There's a huge difference in having these performers appear ONCE and bringing the Rock back whenever he's between movies and bored or dragging out Shawn Michaels every year to push Wrestlemania.

[Casey]

That seems like an odd point to single out - Okay, so you were the same age as these wrestlers when they were in their prime. Awesome? My general point stands, just because YOU were their age or older doesn’t change my argument one bit.

[Victator]

Yeah but your argument is nonsense. Three different people have explained it to you with varying degrees of niceness. But stone wall everyone pretending you can't understand. 

To an outsider it sounds like you are bitter you came along when everything imploded. 

[AxB]

7 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I may be forgottening someone but:

Burgundy, Sorceress Knight and Jen. 

PHIL might have an idea about lurkers he has approved that do not post. 

Plus, who knows how many folks do not disclose their gender/orientation/current 2017 term? 

@SorceressKnight is a dude, man. But you forgot @Mickie Zeidler

[Casey]

10 minutes ago, Victator said:

Yeah but your argument is nonsense. Three different people have explained it to you with varying degrees of niceness. But stone wall everyone pretending you can't understand. 

To an outsider it sounds like you are bitter you came along when everything imploded. 

Yes, everyone was very polite in explaining why it's special to them and laying out their reasons. You, and someone else, weren't. But I'm not complaining about that, so I don't see why you brought it up. I'm not stonewalling anything - they've explained, I still don't see it. I'm sorry that I don't see the importance of a regular ass Smackdown house with a different name that featured 10-15 minutes of old school wrestlers. For all the bitching you guys did about how War Games wasn't like the old ones and this and that, you'd think Starrcade being a HOUSE SHOW and not a PPV event that's promoted on television with actual pay offs to feuds would be your main point of contention. But it's because you can't see it - and then, most likely, you'd complain that it didn't live up to Starrcade 1985 or something.

Nothing imploded to me. This is pretty much how wrestling has always been since I've been a fan. And I'm perfectly fine with the "era" that I grew up in. When some were 28 they could watch NWA on TV, or maybe the Attitude Era live depending on their ages. I'm 28 now, and I can watch any wrestling I choose, either through the Network or on YouTube (and music is an entirely different thing now too, which I'm happy with). I'm extremely grateful for that. NWA/WCW was never my style, I've said that before on here, and I even admitted that it might be why I don't understand why this is so special. Fuck, I'm from the South and I can't even get into the Memphis stuff.

[Victator]

Okay I will go into more detail. 

The nostalgia acts here were in lower card matches. Some like Arn, Steamboat and Ric Flair were not wrestling, they were just making appearances. Now Arn did do a Spinebuster to Dolph. But Arn has not done that since 2002. 

The Rock & Roll Express have not wrestled in the WWF since 1998, so them wrestling the Hardys in an undercard match in the Carolinas is a nice thing to do. 

Now lets compare this to the situation at Wrestlemania on a yearly basis. The same group of people who rarely appear the rest of the year, walk into top spots on the biggest show of the year. Which is almost a necessity with how WWE treats the full time roster. But you can see the difference in these situations.