Tennis

[Niners Fan in CT]

9 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

A number of British jornos are in the "she was wrong" camp. I wouldnt necessarily trust the ESPN US Open crew, given they are a rights holder and part of the tennis industrial complex. 

Sure but people like Taylor Rookes have nothing to do with ESPN or tennis and they have all come out defending Serena and saying the ump was out of line and that male players get away with a lot more, etc.  so it's worth looking into whether that's true or not,  that's why I'm asking 

[jaedmc]

17 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

It happens on this very board. 

Could you please report any posts like that to an Admin of your choice.

[Tabe]

Just now, Niners Fan in CT said:

Sure but people like Taylor Rookes have nothing to do with ESPN or tennis and they have all come out defending Serena and saying the ump was out of line and that male players get away with a lot more, etc.  so it's worth looking into whether that's true or not,  that's why I'm asking 

A lot of those saying the male players get away with more also say stuff like "McEnroe did that all the time and never got penalized" or some slight variation.  That's patently false.  

I'm not real sure why people think the umpire did something wrong here.  He let Serena say her piece - twice (once when the coaching happened, then later when she called him names) and THEN, when she came back yet again with the name-calling, she got the penalty. 

[odessasteps]

The second captains irish sports pod had a good multi faceted discussion about it today. 

https://www.secondcaptains.com/2018/09/10/episode-1262-serenas-outrage-why-she-is-a-nuance-free-zone-dominic-ryan-retires-with-concussion-solos-in-slaughtneil/

[John from Cincinnati]

I’m not much of a tennis fan, so I need some help. I’ve seen this tweet pop up in front of me a couple times now, and I know it’s lacking a world of context. Would anyone mind framing this properly for me? The sports talk thing I have on in the background seems to be as knowledgeable on tennis as I am. 

 

[odessasteps]

Basically, penalties. 

[Tabe]

1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

The second captains irish sports pod had a good multi faceted discussion about it today. 

https://www.secondcaptains.com/2018/09/10/episode-1262-serenas-outrage-why-she-is-a-nuance-free-zone-dominic-ryan-retires-with-concussion-solos-in-slaughtneil/

I didn't have high hopes going in, even with your positive description, but you're right - that discussion was really good.

[odessasteps]

It is a good show for deep issues. They had a really good show not long ago about some Irish rugby players involved in a sexual assault situation that was handled more maturely than you would expect an American show would. 

[Raziel]

2 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

It is a good show for deep issues. They had a really good show not long ago about some Irish rugby players involved in a sexual assault situation that was handled more maturely than you would expect an American show would. 

Considering all American shows and conversations about a topic devolve into demonizing and hot takes, that's a low bar to hurdle. 

[Tabe]

19 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I’m not much of a tennis fan, so I need some help. I’ve seen this tweet pop up in front of me a couple times now, and I know it’s lacking a world of context. Would anyone mind framing this properly for me? The sports talk thing I have on in the background seems to be as knowledgeable on tennis as I am. 

 

Code violations are penalties assessed to a player for any number of infractions - equipment abuse (smashing a racquet), slow play, coaching, verbal abuse of officials, unsportsmanlike conduct (yelling during a point), or whatever.

It's a graduated scale: warning, point, game, forfeit

[Brian Fowler]

FWIW, several men's players have come out to say they've said significantly worse things to umpires without getting even a warning.

[Niners Fan in CT]

That tweet means nothing to me because we don't know why they were penalized and who said or did what to receive the penalty they did..   that is a Trump era statistic. 

[John from Cincinnati]

1 hour ago, Tabe said:

Code violations are penalties assessed to a player for any number of infractions - equipment abuse (smashing a racquet), slow play, coaching, verbal abuse of officials, unsportsmanlike conduct (yelling during a point), or whatever.

It's a graduated scale: warning, point, game, forfeit

I've got that bit mostly. I'm wondering more about how much I should trust the conclusion he seems to want us to draw from the numbers. Lacking context, I don't trust it. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Yeah, I'd like to dive into that a bit more. I'd say I watched about 80% of the coverage throughout the tournament, and majority that I saw I think were relating to delay of game/the new shot clock for serving. 

Given that the men are playing best of 5 compared to the women's best of 3 sets, there's also far greater capacity to attract those violations too. It was also probably simultaneously the hottest conditions and the slowest courts the US Open have had in a long time - plenty of added capacity to be called for taking too long at injury time outs, more 5 setters, etc.

[Tabe]

1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

FWIW, several men's players have come out to say they've said significantly worse things to umpires without getting even a warning.

That means nothing. Did they say those things while arguing the exact same point - again, while lying - for the third time over a half hour? Did they repeatedly question the integrity of the official himself - again, after receiving no penalty whatsoever the first time - while also trying to humiliate the umpire over the microphone? Were those terrible things said after they'd already received two penalties and been put on notice for bad behavior? Or, like the tweet above, are these guys just saying stuff with no context? 

On the surface, what Serena said wasn't THAT terrible. But it was part of a long, drawn out, repeated tirade. And, eventually, an official is going to get tired of being called names and say enough is enough. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

The only thing she said that was even the slightest bit harsh was that he was a thief,  I mean people are different so maybe he felt some sort of way about it but to me that's light. It was the championship final I think maybe he could have warned her about the game penalty that would be incoming if she didn't stop. 

[odessasteps]

In other sports,  questioning the integrity of an official will often get someone tossed. 

It was disappointing to see the ITF and WTA not back up an offical. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

And the WTA CEO Steve Simon also weighed in:  

“Yesterday’s US Open final resulted in the crowning of a deserving new champion, Naomi Osaka. The WTA applauds Naomi for her tremendous accomplishment.

“Yesterday also brought to the forefront the question of whether different standards are applied to men and women in the officiating of matches. The WTA believes that there should be no difference in the standards of tolerance provided to the emotions expressed by men vs. women and is committed to working with the sport to ensure that all players are treated the same. We do not believe that this was done last night.

“We also think the issue of coaching needs to be addressed and should be allowed across the sport. The WTA supports coaching through its on-court coaching rule, but further review is needed.

“Yesterday’s match showcased one of tennis’s new stars as well as one of the greatest players of the game. We look forward to more thrilling matches between these great athletes and hope that what we all witnessed yesterday never happens again.”

[Tabe]

47 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The only thing she said that was even the slightest bit harsh was that he was a thief,  I mean people are different so maybe he felt some sort of way about it but to me that's light. It was the championship final I think maybe he could have warned her about the game penalty that would be incoming if she didn't stop. 

It's up to her to know the situation not the umpire to remind her. 

[Tabe]

Those statements by the WTA and USTA are embarrassing. 

[John from Cincinnati]

22 minutes ago, Tabe said:

Those statements by the WTA and USTA are embarrassing. 

How so? 

[Tabe]

1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

How so? 

Statements in support of a player who broke the rules - repeatedly - and was fined for it. Statements that were more about that player than the champion who kicked her butt - again. 

[J.T.]

I love how the USTA's defense of Carlos Ramos being a dick during the Women's Championship pretty much boils down to, "Well, he's a dick to everybody, so that's okay.

I feel bad for Serena, but I feel horrible for poor Naomi Osaka.  She can't even bask in the glory of her win because of this bullshit.

[Dewar]

Outside of the coaching warning, what exactly did the umpire do to be a dick? By the letter of the law, the coaching warning was correct, although bullshitty, since it is almost never called. Serena smashed her racqust for violation #2. Serena repeatly verbally abused the official, who finally had enough and gave her the third violation.

I feel horrible for Osaka. She was winning that match, playing the match of her life, and her accomplishment will forever be overshadowed by Serena screaming at an umpire.

I also feel bad for the official. He did his job, gave Serena a tremendous amount of leeway before issuing violation number three, and yet he has people who know nothing about tennis raking him over the coals.

[J.T.]

How can the call of coaching be correct and bullshitty at the same time?

The bullshit call was the catalyst that led to the other problems and Serena's temper did the rest.

I do not feel badly for the official.  It is fucking stupid to over-legislate any championship match..  Naomi Osaka didn't even get to claim a win due to her own skill because Carlos Ramos stole that from her as well as a point and a game from Serena.  He could've diffused the situation, but chose not to.

That being said, I do support the notion of irreversible calls since that is the real glue that give the USTA rules some bite and keeps things from going batshit.  No one wants to go back to the Johnny Mac days.