DC Comics omnibus thread

[ArtVanderlay]

Thoughts?

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/08/25/dc-tells-editors-stop-batgirling-go-back-to-meat-and-potatoes/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

 

Just that this further proves my own belief that there is a major disconnect between stuff that the Internet likes and what real people in the real world like.  Like people always complain that a lot of HBO Original Series get great reviews but do horrible in the ratings.

 

The forty-seven year old comic geek who's bought Batman religiously for the last 35+ years doesn't give a crap what the AV Club thinks about Jim Gordon as Mecha-Batman, Bruce Wayne has always been his Batman, goddammit, and he isn't buying Batman if it isn't Bruce in the suit.

[odessasteps]

Admittedly, my first hand data is now 15 years old, but when i worked in a store that had its fair share of "discerning" readers, the vast majority bought books based on the characters and intertia than the creative teams. More than a couple people had "all Batman" and such on their pull sheet.

I do agree about the dangers about appealing to a vocal minority, be it comics or tv or wrestling. IIRC, Mad Men had a viewership of under 2 million people. I often joked all their viewers must have TV critics or bloggers.

[Spritenaut 32]

Just that this further proves my own belief that there is a major disconnect between stuff that the Internet likes and what real people in the real world like.  Like people always complain that a lot of HBO Original Series get great reviews but do horrible in the ratings.

 

The forty-seven year old comic geek who's bought Batman religiously for the last 35+ years doesn't give a crap what the AV Club thinks about Jim Gordon as Mecha-Batman, Bruce Wayne has always been his Batman, goddammit, and he isn't buying Batman if it isn't Bruce in the suit.

 

Well, I'd argue that execution has a lot to do with it, but Snyder's "Bat-Chappie" arc has been pretty damn solid.  On the other hand, there have been plenty of substitutions that stuck and went over well with the general readership.  Superior Spider-Man comes to mind.  Barry Allen and Hal Jordan - Flash and Green Lantern in most casual fans' minds - were dead for years (decades, in Barry's case).  Marvel is on the verge of making some major changes to flagship characters, etc.

 

I agree that changes are hit and miss.  I tend to think the Bat-chappie and Superman backlash are more of a reflection of how little goodwill DC has with readership after years of soft reboots and arbitrary changes.

 

 

Admittedly, my first hand data is now 15 years old, but when i worked in a store that had its fair share of "discerning" readers, the vast majority bought books based on the characters and intertia than the creative teams. More than a couple people had "all Batman" and such on their pull sheet.

 

I've always wondered how many people really buy books based on creative teams and how many simply buy for characters or titles.  I've never done that.  Actually, my pull lists usually specify issues to pull, or at least writer.  It's standard practice for me to skip fill-in issue or annuals if the creator I'm following isn't involved.  Same thing with company-wide events.  I usually read the main book and skip tie-ins unless it's a book/creator I'm already reading.

 

I used to assume most serious customers of lcs' followed creators and casual fans and people buying comics at newsstands/bookstores bought for characters, but i suspect I was wrong about that.

[The Unholy Dragon]

Totally backwards. Most LCS patrons follow characters while bookstore folks track creators.

The big problem here is that Marvel and Image have diversified their stuff and eaten up the midlist space DC used to own. The sudden hits of Batgirl and Harley Quinn combined with Marvel/Image's success pushed them to try new stuff. Critically it's been great. Sales wise remains to be seen. We're only on month three. But abandoning it this soon may lose them an audience they'll never get back when the meat and potatoes crowd lets them down again.

[Eivion]

I agree that changes are hit and miss.  I tend to think the Bat-chappie and Superman backlash are more of a reflection of how little goodwill DC has with readership after years of soft reboots and arbitrary changes.

 

Bat-chappie was more the ridiculous design than anything else. Even with goodwill I'm pretty sure people would have still given them shit for Superman.

[Brian Fowler]

There are creators I'll follow, but I confess, I'll buy any Buffy book, period.

[WholeFnMachine]

Personally, there are some books that I buy no matter who is writing or drawing them & then there are creators who I buy almost everything they do (Snyder, Sean Murphy, Jeff Lemire, Matt Kindt.) And most comics fans that I talk to are the same. 

[WholeFnMachine]

From my man at my LCS 

 

"All of the Superman titles are up 20% or more in monthly sales at Best Comics since June. It may have started as a stunt, but people are staying because the stories have been good.

 

And the Batman title starring Gordon has been better than it has any right being. Seriously. It shouldn't be remotely good and I'm enjoying it more than any of the preceding 20 issues.

 

There's no need to "throw the baby out with the bath water" -- leave the better quality titles on course to tell their stories. If something isn't working, shelve it and move into something else."

[The Unholy Dragon]

I mean, the weird thing is that there's no real indication anything is selling way below the usual levels barring weird fringe stuff like Prez (which is amazing btw). It just hasn't goosed sales the way they wanted. But the tumblr crowd has a better track record for loyalty than the LCS one, which means if consistency is what they want they should try to hold out.

It just kills me that three months into trying new stuff for the first time in forever they're already talking about scrapping it when sales on everything except the books that already fit this idea were anemic and dropping off steadily with few pickups. It wasn't working.

[ArtVanderlay]

Bleeding Cool now speculating that Dan Didio is back in control of DC editorial after losing some power with the "Batgirlification" that allegedly led to 2 million in losses.

 

Also, lower page rates and more ads are coming to DC titles to make up the 2 million..

[Eivion]

He never lost control of editorial, even after he was promoted. Its been a big part of problem.

[The Unholy Dragon]

Also the $2 million loss is from elsewhere in the company (the Burbank move and Convergence primarily) with other factors like lower trade sales playing in. One anonymous beancounter on Bleeding Cool said that some evergreen books had been hurt by adaptations, citing the Miller Batman stuff and Watchmen as examples (Watchmen sold in 7 months this year what it was selling monthly pre-film).

There's a lot happening and while they're hoping DK3 makes some millions for them, 1:5000 variants and all, they're also not likely to risk cash on stuff that isn't immediately hitting. And because reactive business, meat and potatoes will get more chances than experimental.

[ArtVanderlay]

There's a lot happening and while they're hoping DK3 makes some millions for them, 1:5000 variants and all, they're also not likely to risk cash on stuff that isn't immediately hitting. And because reactive business, meat and potatoes will get more chances than experimental.

 

I like how there is apparently no one left in DC editorial who remembers the huge backlash that DK2 got when it came out and are apparently expecting this to be some sort of colossal megahit that will singlehandedly put them back on top of the sales charts for the long term.

[ArtVanderlay]

My apologies if this has already been discussed, but were there any notable names who didn't make the move from New York to Los Angeles?

[odessasteps]

She had already left, but Karen Berger?

[The Unholy Dragon]

There's a lot happening and while they're hoping DK3 makes some millions for them, 1:5000 variants and all, they're also not likely to risk cash on stuff that isn't immediately hitting. And because reactive business, meat and potatoes will get more chances than experimental.

I like how there is apparently no one left in DC editorial who remembers the huge backlash that DK2 got when it came out and are apparently expecting this to be some sort of colossal megahit that will singlehandedly put them back on top of the sales charts for the long term.

It's been a long time, they have amazing creators to filter Miller's crazy through, and the weird formats and gimmicks and high threshold variants will also be a thing. If the first issue sells less than half a million standard edition copies I'll be surprised.

Besides, DKSA sold fine. It just got critically panned. But it sold okay and still sells enough to be perpetually in print. There's money here.

[ArtVanderlay]

 

 

There's a lot happening and while they're hoping DK3 makes some millions for them, 1:5000 variants and all, they're also not likely to risk cash on stuff that isn't immediately hitting. And because reactive business, meat and potatoes will get more chances than experimental.

I like how there is apparently no one left in DC editorial who remembers the huge backlash that DK2 got when it came out and are apparently expecting this to be some sort of colossal megahit that will singlehandedly put them back on top of the sales charts for the long term.

It's been a long time, they have amazing creators to filter Miller's crazy through, and the weird formats and gimmicks and high threshold variants will also be a thing. If the first issue sells less than half a million standard edition copies I'll be surprised.

 

 

Frank Miller:  Okay, so DK 3 will end with Bruce Wayne forcing every American citizen to have a microchip implanted under their skin, and then, as he dies of old age, he uploads his consciousness into a Super Computer that will use the microchips to track every American and prevent any crime from ever occurring.

 

Brian Azzarello:  And then Superman and Wonder Woman come in and destroy the Super Computer, right?

 

Frank Miller: Huh?  No, Supes, Wonder Woman, and their children are in the Middle East wiping out every Arab terrorist in existance.  They hear what Bruce is doing and give him the thumbs up.

 

Brian Azzarello:  Okay, no, we're not doing that...

[Spritenaut 32]

I gotta admit, my interest in DK3 depends greatly on how much ends up being Azzarello/Kubert and how much ends up being Frank.  I don't hate Frank's recent work, but more Azarrello/less Miller will be a selling point for me.  Honestly, if Miller were doing the art, we'd be into "no buys" territory.  I'm assuming DC is saddling Frank with an artist and co-writer because Frank working by himself would be likely to deliver something possibly brilliant but non-commercial (although "possibly insane" is at least as likely as "possibly brilliant").

[Bustronaut]

cf. Holy Terror

[Eivion]

I gotta admit, my interest in DK3 depends greatly on how much ends up being Azzarello/Kubert and how much ends up being Frank.  I don't hate Frank's recent work, but more Azarrello/less Miller will be a selling point for me.  Honestly, if Miller were doing the art, we'd be into "no buys" territory.  I'm assuming DC is saddling Frank with an artist and co-writer because Frank working by himself would be likely to deliver something possibly brilliant but non-commercial (although "possibly insane" is at least as likely as "possibly brilliant").

Well that and I believe Miller's health isn't the best.

[bobholly138]

Somedays it feels like I am one of the few that loved DKSA. But I see it for what it was. Miller getting tired of the fanboys begging for a sequel. So he wrote the biggest Fuck You Fanboys comic I have ever seen.

[odessasteps]

And he made the Spirit, which was an FU to people who like the Spirit and good movies.

[Brian Fowler]

Especially the latter of those two groups.

[The Unholy Dragon]

Honestly there was a while I genuinely preferred DKSA to DKR. I've come around but I still don't think DKSA is as bad as it's made out to be.

Then again, I'm also aboard for ASBAR being great and legitimately being disappointed the rest isn't happening apparently.

[Brian Fowler]

I've never cared for DKSA but ASBaRtBW is fucking great and I'm pissed Dark Knight/Boy Wonder isn't happening but DKIII is.