Craig H Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 That isn't accurate...Like, at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Abrams had nothing to do with either of those endings, so I'm not sure why he'd be losing sleep over fan reaction to them.Maybe the fact that his name is attached to them? If that's me I am deeply invested in making sure those shows don't end badly.I understand how you might think that, but that's really not how the production game works.Do you think Steven Spielberg has ever wasted a second of his time fretting over the reviews for TERRA NOVA? Or FALLING SKIES? Or any of the other shit shows he's produced over the years?These guys put their names on a ton of shows. But if they're not deeply involved in the day-to-day running of the show, they could really care less beyond whether they stay on the air and keep the checks coming in. They don't see the quality of the show as a reflection on themselves at all.Abrams had almost nothing to do with LOST after the pilot. If anything, he probably got too much credit for the show, considering how quickly he bolted and left it in the hands of Lindelof. I think he has one co-writing credit in season 3, and that's it.He was actually more involved with FRINGE in the earlygoing, but even then he checked out before the last few seasons. Direct all hate to J.H. Wyman.Falling Skies and Terra Nova made little and zero impact. Once your property becomes a cultural phenomenon like Lost did I think I'd pop my head in the door once in awhile. He may have even had the power to go to ABC when the network was pushing for more, more, more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Man, maybe it's just me, but isn't a creator having his own vision and pursuing it, instead of listening to a bunch of outside voices, quite potentially a good thing? If Abrams went into this trying to make sure every single serious hardcore Star Wars nerd would end up happy, then there would be a 0.0000000000000001% chance the movie wouldn't absolutely suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Man, maybe it's just me, but isn't a creator having his own vision and pursuing it, instead of listening to a bunch of outside voices, quite potentially a good thing? Yes when you are actually the creator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 That isn't accurate...Like, at all. You mean my comment about Abrams being involved in coming up with stuff that he didn't have an explanation for?From this story: The development process had unfolded so quickly, there was very little time to figure out what all the weirdness meant — when I ask Lindelof how much of the mythology they had mapped out at that stage, he says, "During the pilot? None of it, to be honest with you" Initially, the writers had discussed a wild boar attack, but Abrams wanted the animal to hint at the unique properties of the island, and suggested some kind of genetically-enhanced creature. Producer Sarah Caplan felt that could make viewers mistake the creature for the monster, and suggested they just pick an animal that wouldn't belong there. In Lindelof's memory, he and Abrams replied, "It should be a polar bear!" at the same moment. So it's a polar bear because that's freaky, not for any good reason within the show.In an interview with David Fury, the guy who wrote the first episode with the Numbers, Fury says Abrams came up with the concept of having numbers, but when asked what the numbers mean, he says, "Frankly, your guesses are as good as mine. No, wait… Better. Your guesses are much better than mine." So if Abrams knew, he didn't bother to tell the guy writing the episode.And Lindelof says, "we had no idea, no grand design behind the Numbers."As the first link says, it was a super rushed job to get it together in time. So it's not terribly surprising that they didn't have time to come up with explanations for some of the mysteries. But then, that means when it's time to come up with an explanation, sometimes the best explanation for why there was a polar bear is "because polar bears possess keen memory and adaptability instincts, [making them] prime candidates for studies in electromagnetic research". And the numbers refer to the characters somehow with no explanation of how they got their number or why they had to punch the numbers into the computer.So maybe it was unfair of me to say it was the "plan" to do wacky stuff then worry about it later. Maybe they just didn't have time to figure it out, so they went by the seat of their pants. And that seemed to be a bad influence on Lindelof and Cuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 It is not too uncommon a tactic. Steve Englehart referred to it as tossing plates in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Vince Gilligan wrote the greatest show of all time while making it up as he went along. It's harder to do that on TV than any other medium, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that approach. Lindelof & Cuse's mistake was in lying about having a plan. That said, you also have to understand the unique pressure they were under. LOST was the first big mythology-driven hit show since the X-FILES, and the wounds from how badly that show went out were still fresh on people's minds. The public basically demanded that they promise LOST wouldn't hurt them like that. If they had said, "No, we're writing this from season to season like every other TV show, ever," people would've started jumping ship a lot sooner than they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 X Files ran out of steam, but there was a clear plot charted throughout the show and every mythology episode furthered that plot and made sense. Lost didn't just make it up as they went along, they made it up without figuring out a payoff as it went along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Lost and X-Files were completely different shows. X-Files was a monster of the week with some minor elements of mythology and Lost was a serialized story. It's apples and oranges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 In terms of the mythology though, X Files did it a million times better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Do you guys seriously not remember the public outrage over how the mythology of the X-FILES slowly devolved into idiocy? I remember it well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 In terms of the mythology though, X Files did it a million times better. Regardless, the level of difficulty in managing mythology in a Monster of the Week show is so much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Vince Gilligan wrote the greatest show of all time while making it up as he went along. It's harder to do that on TV than any other medium, but I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that approach.Lindelof & Cuse's mistake was in lying about having a plan. That said, you also have to understand the unique pressure they were under. LOST was the first big mythology-driven hit show since the X-FILES, and the wounds from how badly that show went out were still fresh on people's minds. The public basically demanded that they promise LOST wouldn't hurt them like that. If they had said, "No, we're writing this from season to season like every other TV show, ever," people would've started jumping ship a lot sooner than they did. Speaking of 'lying about their plan', I just happened across this: A document detailing some original plans for LOST. In it, Abrams and Lindelof make the ironclad promise that the show wouldn't be serialized. Kinda funny. I'm not faulting them for deviating from this document, since most (maybe all) of the deviations were for the better. They don't mention the flashback/centric concept of episodes, which I think was one of the best parts of the show. I wonder when they came up with that. It's also funny that Lindelof has complained that explaining too much would be like "midi-chlorianing" the show (bringing things back to the thread topic). If they had just never explained why there was a polar bear there (like they did with the Hurleybird, for instance) or if they'd just left the numbers to be ambiguous, that would have been so much better than the goofy midi-chlorianing they did. (though to be clear, I'm laying most of the blame there on Lindelof and Cuse, not Abrams) (BTW, in the document linked above, they actually joke about how they're not going to explain the polar bear.) When you think about it, how many long-term LOST mysteries really paid off? Stuff where they planted seeds early, but didn't harvest them until much later -- and it came off as actually good storytelling rather than merely tying up loose ends or worse. Maybe the Incident. I guess the Others. Probably a few more, but not the best hit/miss ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Lost is a thousand times better if you realize it's supposed to be about the characters and the mythology stuff is just there to stimulate them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Lost is a thousand times better if you realize it's supposed to be about the characters and the mythology stuff is just there to stimulate them. Which is the most cop out answer of cop out answers. Because they were all shit human beings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 So back to Star Wars...they are accepting online auditions for the two lead characters. I'm very interested in watching the submissions. I like Star Wars a lot, but some of these dudes are playing a different game. Some of the less self-aware members of the group are going to go all out to embarass themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted November 11, 2013 Author Share Posted November 11, 2013 Cool, George Michael Bluth for the lead! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 So back to Star Wars...they are accepting online auditions for the two lead characters. I'm very interested in watching the submissions. I like Star Wars a lot, but some of these dudes are playing a different game. Some of the less self-aware members of the group are going to go all out to embarass themselves. Are you not familiar with Mr. Christiansen's body of work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigertooth Posted November 11, 2013 Share Posted November 11, 2013 And as the current flashback Observer on f4wonline shows, both LOST and nWo began by the seat of their pants without longterm planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 So we are inching closer to actual news. I guess I'm at the accecptence stage of dealing with the death of the EU as I know it. It's now what percent of things survive? 5%? For me the big one is now Mara Jade. Beloved by fans, if they want Luke to have a son it would make sense to use her. I will say I kind of like the idea of Luke, Han, and Leia getting the lead in episode 7. There is plenty of time to move on to the kids who won't be Jacen and Jaina Solo. The other fun rumor is Pixar making a Star Wars movie. That could go a lot of directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Isn't there some kind of committee to see what's going to stay and what'll go? That just boggles my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 There is and I should be on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 There shouldn't be one. Why handicap yourself from a storytelling standpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ultimoDANK Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Oh boy. Cue the Benny Hill music. Some people think it's wrong and or stupid to torpedo hundreds of stories so JJ Abrams can have his vision. I'm fine with some things being cut in order to make the story going forward more accessible for a casual fan. Given the age of big 3 why cut the Zahn trilogy. The story can't pick up 2 weeks or even 2 years after RotJ. There's gonna be a gap between episode 6 and 7 that is similar to the gap between 3 and 4. I'd keep all the Old Republic stuff because I don't think anyone really cares. Plus you have a huge gap between the Old Republic and A New Hope. A whole new story could come from there. Keep all the Clone Wars stuff. Keep the framework of everything up until the Yuuzhan Vong invasion because Chewbacca just can't be dead in Ep7. I would imagine the hardest of the hardcore would find it difficult to argue for a dead Chewbacca. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Doing away with all of it would kind of be stupid though. You have plenty there that can be mined for something useful and interesting even if your rewriting it to an extent while there are stories in the far past that there really isn't a reason to erase since they don't have an effect on the current stuff and again could be mined for something interesting to build on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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