pipGofern Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The arena fight scene was pretty cool. So cool that Andrew Stanton almost staged a literal shot-for-shot remake in John Carter. But I'd have to go with the Maul/Qui Gon/Obi Wan fight scene, too. I have a borderline irrational love for the original trilogy so I have a hard time putting any of the new trilogy over them - I'd argue "Nooooooooooo" pretty much cancels out the Ewoks single-handedly - but I will say that Sith was far and away the best of the new batch. I don't feel like rehashing all the ways Lucas went wrong with those movies but suffice to say, I've always felt the biggest issue with the first two is there is only one movie worth of story (if even) stretched out to an intolerable degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well, nobody goes to a Star Wars movie for political debate about trade agreements and blockades, so Episode I is fucked right from the word go. I mean, seriously, look at the movies, look at the stakes: Episode IV: The Empire blew up one planet, and are preparing to blow up another, ending the rebellion against them, and securing their grasp on the universe forever with the ultimate weapon. Episode V: The Empire has regrouped. Vader is trying to turn the galaxy's last hope to the dark side, thus snuffing out the last chance the Jedi may rise again (Cryptic Leia reference aside.) The Empire is attempting to capture the heroes of the rebellion and snuff it out. Episode VI: Still trying to turn Luke, plus THEY'VE REBUILT THE FUCKING DEATH STAR AND ARE GOING TO DESTROY THE REBELLION Episode I: A trade dispute. The fuck, George? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Yeah, but Duel of Fates is intertwined with Anakin Spacefighter and Jar-Jar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 This is always fun to link back to: http://www.toddalcott.com/the-phantom-menace.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I mostly find Episode II just really fucking boring. They're both bad, but at least PM is bad in some interesting ways, like the Pod Race, which is terrible on any conceptual level, but is pretty cool as an isolated scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 The failing point of PM is that Anakin is a kid when we first meet him. I know that we're supposed to be terrified by the prospect that this innocent, altruistic child is going to become Vader, but then Padme is in her mid twenties when Anakin is like nine or ten. Makes the pending relationship veeeery creeeepy... Can we at least get some clarification that says that humanoids from Naboo have a longer life span / age slower or that the stupid medachorians age Anakin faster than normal and give him preternatural maturity?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Padme was supposedly only 16 in TPM. I mean Portman wasn't, but the character was. And Anakin was supposed to be 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Well, nobody goes to a Star Wars movie for political debate about trade agreements and blockades, so Episode I is fucked right from the word go. I mean, seriously, look at the movies, look at the stakes: Episode IV: The Empire blew up one planet, and are preparing to blow up another, ending the rebellion against them, and securing their grasp on the universe forever with the ultimate weapon. Episode V: The Empire has regrouped. Vader is trying to turn the galaxy's last hope to the dark side, thus snuffing out the last chance the Jedi may rise again (Cryptic Leia reference aside.) The Empire is attempting to capture the heroes of the rebellion and snuff it out. Episode VI: Still trying to turn Luke, plus THEY'VE REBUILT THE FUCKING DEATH STAR AND OUR GOING TO DESTROY THE REBELLION Episode I: A trade dispute. The fuck, George? I don't remember when it happened, but at some point bad guys stopped being allowed to ever get over on the good guys(I blame Vince). The thing that made the original trilogy great is because the Empire were ruthless motherfuckers who would kill an entire planet to prove a point. The chances of the Rebel Alliance winning was so minimal in A New Hope, you were on the edge of your seat hoping they'd win. In Empire Strikes Back, the rebels flat out got their asses kicked. In Return of the Jedi, Luke is unsure of himself and would have died if his father didn't save him. The reason we connected with the characters is because we were able to see them at their best and at their worst. The prequels basically was nothing but the Jedi kicking ass at all times. Darth Maul should have killed Qui-Gon Jin and Obi-Wan should have had to run away like a bitch just to live. Every Jedi who fought in the arena should have died except for Obi-Wan and Anakin and Padme should have suffered a serious injury. I never felt like the villains in I-III were a threat, Darth Maul looked like someone who would eat your soul instead of popcorn while he watches movies, but he died in his first battle. Everyone else was either a senior citizen or a robot with a breathing problem. Make us want to root for these guys, by giving us a villain worth hating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 And a 7 year age gap once you are adults isn't creepy, but it is when you KNEW THE KID WHEN HE WAS 9! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Padme was supposedly only 16 in TPM. I mean Portman wasn't, but the character was. And Anakin was supposed to be 9. Yeah, there is no way I'd mistake Natalie Portman for a mid-teen or peg the character Padme herself as portrayed by Portman as a sixteen year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 God, Maul so shouldn't have died in Episode I. Even if he died at the start of Episode II, like Christopher Lee in III did, it would have been so much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonteCarl Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I read awhile back - and maybe it was even discussed here on the old board - about what some considered the "best" way to introduce somebody to the films who hasn't seen any of them. Do you go from 1 to 6? If so, you lose the "I am your father" impact. Do you go in release order? What was suggested was this: A New Hope Empire Strikes Back Attack of the Clones Revenge of the Sith Return of the Jedi In this order, you start with Luke's story, are introduced to Vader, the "I Am Your Father" moment is still in there, and we end on a cliffhanger in Empire. We then go to a "flashback" series of sorts to find out how Vader became Vader and how Obi-Wan ties in with it all. We see Anakin fall from grace and succumb to the dark side, and then we're back to Return of the Jedi. This gives the end with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor a little more drama because the tension is built up more. Will Luke succumb like we just saw his father do? We also know that Luke is right about Vader having some good in him, as we saw him before he turned and when he was in love. Then he gets his redemption. Overall, the entire series is about Vader/Anakin. You take out the horrid Phantom Menace all together, which really does not introduce anybody to anything that is missed out on if you don't see it, except Qui Gon Jin. Hardly any Jar Jar and absolutely none of the midichlorian crap. Sure, we miss out on Darth Maul and the awesome dual of the fates battle, but overall, what did he mean to any of the story? Nothing. Overall, what did any of the Phantom Menace mean to the whole story? Not much. It shows how Ben and Anakin met and how Anakin and Padme met and how Palpatine started to get full control over the senate. There may be some small holes in Attack of the Clones about who some of the people are, but the overall narrative is pretty easy to follow without any of Menace in there. Ever since reading that I've been wanting to watch the movies in this order, but haven't done so yet. I haven't really watched any of the movies in years. I should do that soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 God, Maul so shouldn't have died in Episode I. I was okay with Maul getting what was coming too him in Ep. 1. His purpose was to establish Obi-Wan as a bad-ass. Mission successful since Maul had to use Dark Side chicanery because he couldn't beat Obi-Wan legit in a saber battle. Obi-Wan was about to go through Maul like a spoon ful of Draino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 It's called Machete Order, iirc. Don't remember the name of the guy who proposed it first, but it seems like it would be the best way, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 God, Maul so shouldn't have died in Episode I. I was okay with Maul getting what was coming too him in Ep. 1. His purpose was to establish Obi-Wan as a bad-ass. Mission successful since Maul had to use Dark Side chicanery because he couldn't beat Obi-Wan legit in a saber battle. Obi-Wan was about to go through Maul like a spoon ful of Draino. But we knew Obi-Wan was a bad ass, we didn't know anything about Darth Maul until we watched a cartoon about him a decade later. What is the point of creating such a bad ass character only to have him be the sidekick for some old guy whose name sounded like the lovechild of Count Chocula and an actual piece of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 We knew Obi-Wan was a bad-ass, but he was still in Qui-Gon's shadow. When Obi beat Maul, the student became the master and passing of torches is one of the core theme of the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think we needed to establish the Sith more than we did Obi-Wan. Let Kenobi kill him in Episode II. Plus, then we get a rematch. Because Christ Episode II needed a better lightsaber duel than it got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think we needed to establish the Sith more than we did Obi-Wan. Let Kenobi kill him in Episode II. Plus, then we get a rematch. Because Christ Episode II needed a better lightsaber duel than it got. Nah, that was the one thing that Lucas got right. The jobbing out of Maul and Dooku only seems dumb from a metaplot perspective. If you look at it from the context of the story, it makes perfect sense. Maul and Tyrannus were expendable. Palpatine was after Anakin the whole time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 We knew Obi-Wan was a bad-ass, but he was still in Qui-Gon's shadow. When Obi beat Maul, the student became the master and passing of torches is one of the core theme of the franchise. I agree, but you had three movies to make Obi-Wan look good, but there is no one credible for him to fight. After watching the prequels did anyone think Obi-Wan should have been hiding out in a cave because he was worried about Anakin coming for him. He just kicked Anakin's ass and chopped off 3 out of 4 limbs, he should have been walking around the galaxy like George Jefferson. Obi-Wan becomming a bad ass should have been a slow burn, and him getting his ass kicked by Maul should have been the first step. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 After watching the prequels did anyone think Obi-Wan should have been hiding out in a cave because he was worried about Anakin coming for him? Hell yeah he should've been worried. Order 66, man. By the time New Hope rolls around, Palpatine and Vader had an entire government and an army at their disposal dedicated to wiping out Jedi. Even Yoda bounced to Dagotbah to avoid detection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pipGofern Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Obi-Wan being able to kick Anakin's ass is besides the point. The reasons he hid out were twofold: first, even if he could take Vader, the entire Jedi Academy was wiped out so it's not like he can overthrow the Empire by himself. And second, he knew Qui-Gon's prophecy of Luke being the redemption of The Force was true so he knew his time was better spent keeping Luke safe than worrying about killing Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Obi-Wan being able to kick Anakin's ass is besides the point. The reasons he hid out were twofold: first, even if he could take Vader, the entire Jedi Academy was wiped out so it's not like he can overthrow the Empire by himself. And second, he knew Qui-Gon's prophecy of Luke being the redemption of The Force was true so he knew his time was better spent keeping Luke safe than worrying about killing Vader. I understand that, my point was more that Obi-Wan was going to look like a bad ass eventually for beating Anakin's ass, so we didn't have to kill Maul to make him look like a bad ass. He was eventually going to kick the shit out of the biggest bad ass in the galaxy, getting his ass kicked early would have done a lot to build drama in a story that had basically none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Is the Clone Wars cartoon/movie considered EU or is it cannon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Pretty sure its considered cannon, especially since Lucas actually worked on some of it. I have very little memory of Episodes 1-3. The only one I recall not liking was II. I was indifferent towards Phantom Menace. I can only recall the hilariously bad Nooo!!! scene at the end of ROTS. ROTJ was probably my favorite, but it has been so long since I have actually sat down and watched any of the films I have no idea how I would rank them today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 Just saw Fisher on tonights Big Bang Theory for the first time in I don't know how long, and Jesus H. Christ. I get she has mental issues, but what happened physically? Between her and Hamil supposedly the size of a blimp, Ford has his work cut out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts