SECRET SANTO 2023~!

[Curt McGirt]

3 hours ago, Gordi the former AEW fan said:

Damn, Curt. Pretty good way to start this one off. Thanks for this!

Thank @Elsalvajeloco (the damn tagging thing won't work for me anymore, just like putting videos in, just like posting fucking pictures...) because he wrote this in the joshi thread and I wasn't not gonna watch it then: 

Quote

I was thinking about the Survival Shout match. I absolutely hate a lot of the AJW "tag" matches from the late 80s/early 90s post Crush Gals that don't honor the traditional Australian rules cause why call it a tag match when you never actually tag. You just jump in the ring whenever and there is no real smooth transition unlike the Michinoku Pro multi man matches from back in the day. However, that match between Aja/Bison vs. Bull/Grizzly is some next level shit in that smash mouth style you only really saw in the territories or the 70s/80s All Japan with all the big names from the Funks to Hansen and Brody. It's almost like they gave too much even if for example, that kendo stick or modified kendo stick that Grizzly used was gimmicked. They beat the holy mess out of each other. It's basically the female equivalent of Cactus/Maxx Payne vs. The Nasty Boys from Spring Stampede 1994 on the ridiculously violent scale even down to the inconsequential finish of Grizzly being pinned with a German Suplex while the fans cannot possibly process the chaos that just took place. It more than redeems not following the actual tag team rules. Moreover, for what amounts to a heel vs. heel match, it totally helped build on Bull Nakano kinda totally breaking away from the lineage that started when she joined Dump's army and becoming her own woman.

 

[Sammo~!]

22 hours ago, brynn9292 said:

Not particularly!

I’ve got access to Peacock/WWE, Impact Plus and ROH currently for streaming.

Anything outside of that, as long as it’s on YouTube, I’m good! My favorite things on YouTube right now are old WWF house shows (like Philly, MSG, Boston, etc). Deathmatches are also fun!

Alright I got one for ya! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycb4R_dQkWQ

[onelegbrynn]

17 minutes ago, Sammo~! said:

Alright I got one for ya! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycb4R_dQkWQ

Perfect!! Thank you! I love these types of insane matches!

[onelegbrynn]

@Zimbra Here's one for you ... Jon Moxley fighting Ron Mathis in front of maybe a dozen people from sometime in 2010

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by brynn9292

[Curt McGirt]

Isn't it weird that the same ancient, fourth-generation FMW footage is floating around out there? Hasn't there been anything better released that can be put up?

[Sammo~!]

15 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Isn't it weird that the same ancient, fourth-generation FMW footage is floating around out there? Hasn't there been anything better released that can be put up?

Even just finding full matches that haven't been clipped to pieces is a real challenge these days

[John E. Dynamite]

I'm gonna very politely ask to be shoehorned into this if you're all still rockin' an odd number of participants. I found an old Google doc of good weird matches I had kicking around + I've been throwing darts at Roy Lucier's board again. This would be a healthy way to spend my time.

[Matt D]

Just now, John E. Dynamite said:

I'm gonna very politely ask to be shoehorned into this if you're all still rockin' an odd number of participants. I found an old Google doc of good weird matches I had kicking around + I've been throwing darts at Roy Lucier's board again. This would be a healthy way to spend my time.

You're in for next week. The whole Person > Person > Person thing gets confusing.

Anyway @porksweats gave me Orange Cassidy vs Effy. This was from July 2019 and at GCW. From what I gather, Effy was just on the rise in GCW (This was his fifth show and his first singles match). He's a guy who I understand the idea of but I haven't actually seen much in practice. I bet he actually came out of this with some thoughts on how to tweak the act or lean harder and more consistently into it. Cassidy was a few months away from really starting in AEW and he had his own act mostly worked out. It's one of the minor miracles of this decade in wrestling so far that he figured out how to take the act and lean it into a more traditional babyface framework. Wrestling is ultimately symbolic and moves (or to take it a step further, actions) are symbols. You can substitute one thing in for another so long as it has the same narrative value. You just have to control the response accordingly. He was farther along here in figuring it out than even some 2019 matches I've seen out of him. There was more of a sense that it was a mind game as opposed to him just being this weird entity that broke wrestling. In that regard, Effy was even further along that line in some ways, but not nearly as committed from a kayfabe perspective; he broke more because Cassidy was just unyielding. You could hurt him but you couldn't otherwise break him. If he was in a position to have autonomy, he was going to fire up only to give you the weak chop or walk around you just to give you the weak kick. Really, what it took for Effy to ultimately win was to steal the mist, which is one of those spots that you could imagine Adrian Street overcoming Kabuki with in 1984 but otherwise seems sort of hard to imagine at any other point in wrestling history. Even then, Cassidy was able to get the better of Effy again until Effy just managed to show a tiny bit more effort in a key moment, maybe breaking some unwritten accord. This was on the high end of what Indy Orange Cassidy could do and could be but it really highlights how he upped the act in making it more mainstream and streamlined. It's important to reiterate just how unlikely, almost impossible even, it was that he managed to pull it off though without losing anything but cynicism he didn't need in the first place thereby still managing to retain so much of what made it entertaining and special in the first place, all the while jettisoning those bits that would make it disrupt reality on an overall card

[Curt McGirt]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

The whole Person > Person > Person thing gets confusing.

See? Goddamn Round Robin tournaments 

[The Natural]

On 12/3/2023 at 7:00 PM, Matt D said:

Week 1!

@The Natural
@Casey
-------
@porksweats
Matt D
------
@Curt McGirt
@Gordi the former AEW fan
-------
@Sammo~! > @brynn9292 > @Zimbra ( > Sammo~!) So Sammo gives a match to Brynn. Brynn gives a match to Zimbra. Zimbra gives a match to Sammo. Got it?

Feel free to post what you'd want to see now. I'll take literally anything at this point. Anything you want, PS?

 

On 12/4/2023 at 4:36 AM, Casey said:

This your only prerequisite, or you have anything specific in mind?

Let’s see… give me a good early to mid 90s WWF main event. That doesn’t feature Bret Hart. Make it a little challenging for ya!

Sorry for the depression delay.

I'll turn to the Bull Nakano fan for Bull Nakano recommendations please.

Finding a WWF match from that timeframe without Bret Hart was indeed the gravest challenge. Deliberate foreboding for my pick for you, The Undertaker vs. Mankind at In Your House 11: Buried Alive 1996.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rT7eElns0c8&pp=ygUVdW5kZXJ0YWtlciB2cyBtYW5raW5k

[Casey]

CHAIN MATCH: Bull Nakano vs Shinobu Kandori

It’s age restricted because of the blood and how violent it is. So you’ll probably need an account to watch it on YouTube? But it’s worth it. Not really talked about all that much amongst Bull’s classics with Aja Kong or Akira Hokuto or the like, maybe because it wasn’t on one of those big AJW supershows. For my money, it’s one of the more violent Bull matches. I really wish a deathmatch against Megumi Kudo or Shark Tsuchiya existed, but, alas.

Anyway. It doesn’t have any blood drinking like Hangman/Swerve, or glass, or anything. But in a lot of ways it’s more visceral and brutal. You should also know that this is basically just a falls count anywhere/No DQ match that happens to involve a chain. No touching the ring posts or anything.

 

EDIT: I’m also going to watch your match tonight (I haven’t seen it! Shocker, right?) but I’ll do so on Peacock since YouTube is OBNOXIOUS with mid-video ads these days. But I’ll get to it tonight!

Edited December 7, 2023 by Casey

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

CHAIN MATCH: Bull Nakano vs Shinobu Kandori

It’s age restricted because of the blood and how violent it is. So you’ll probably need an account to watch it on YouTube? But it’s worth it. Not really talked about all that much amongst Bull’s classics with Aja Kong or Akira Hokuto or the like, maybe because it wasn’t on one of those big AJW supershows. For my money, it’s one of the more violent Bull matches. I really wish a deathmatch against Megumi Kudo or Shark Tsuchiya existed, but, alas.

Anyway. It doesn’t have any blood drinking like Hangman/Swerve, or glass, or anything. But in a lot of ways it’s more visceral and brutal. You should also know that this is basically just a falls count anywhere/No DQ match that happens to involve a chain. No touching the ring posts or anything.

 

EDIT: I’m also going to watch your match tonight (I haven’t seen it! Shocker, right?) but I’ll do so on Peacock since YouTube is OBNOXIOUS with mid-video ads these days. But I’ll get to it tonight!

Cheers, Casey. I have a YouTube account. Will watch ASAP. Glad I managed to pick a match you haven't seen in The Undertaker vs. Mankind Buried Alive. My original plan was Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind In Your House 10: Mind Games but it's not on YouTube.

[Casey]

I haven’t seen that either, so if I’m bored tonight after the Game Awards I might watch that as well!

[Godfrey]

2 hours ago, Casey said:

EDIT: I’m also going to watch your match tonight (I haven’t seen it! Shocker, right?) but I’ll do so on Peacock since YouTube is OBNOXIOUS with mid-video ads these days. But I’ll get to it tonight!

If you're an ad blocker kind of person, YouTube just tried to get around ad blockers and made them far more effective as a result

Also highly recommend checking out the Mind Games match too when you can

[Curt McGirt]

I wondered about that. Their bullshit was working for a minute, then all of the sudden it's back to normal (ads blocked, that is). 

[The Natural]

On 12/7/2023 at 5:54 PM, The Natural said:

Cheers, Casey. I have a YouTube account. Will watch ASAP. Glad I managed to pick a match you haven't seen in The Undertaker vs. Mankind Buried Alive. My original plan was Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind In Your House 10: Mind Games but it's not on YouTube.

 

On 12/7/2023 at 6:04 PM, Casey said:

I haven’t seen that either, so if I’m bored tonight after the Game Awards I might watch that as well!

 

On 12/7/2023 at 6:41 PM, Godfrey said:

If you're an ad blocker kind of person, YouTube just tried to get around ad blockers and made them far more effective as a result

Also highly recommend checking out the Mind Games match too when you can

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind at In Your House 10: Mind Games 1996 is an absolute must see. Been meaning to do my Best WWE Matches Ever here and it would be in or just outside my top ten. Hell 1996 is the only year I have a Shawn Michaels Match of the Year over a Bret Hart one, vs. Steve Austin at Survivor Series 1996 and y'all know how I love Bret. If you can only watch one of my picks for you, please go with Mind Games.

[Godfrey]

48 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Shawn Michaels vs. Mankind at In Your House 10: Mind Games 1996 is an absolute must see. Been meaning to do my Best WWE Matches Ever here and it would be in or just outside my top ten. Hell 1996 is the only year I have a Shawn Michaels Match of the Year over a Bret Hart one, vs. Steve Austin at Survivor Series 1996 and y'all know how I love Bret. If you can only watch one of my picks for you, please go with Mind Games.

It’s a toss up for me, both matches are great and Bret is one of my faves too. Some people knock Mind Games down a notch for the finish, before that was next level stuff though

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, Godfrey said:

It’s a toss up for me, both matches are great and Bret is one of my faves too. Some people knock Mind Games down a notch for the finish, before that was next level stuff though

I can understand people having an issue with the Mind Games finish but it doesn't detract from the brilliant preceding it as we both note. There's not many WWE matches I'd have above it. 

[HeadCheese]

If there is any room,  may I join week 2

[porksweats]

On 12/3/2023 at 3:15 PM, Matt D said:

There barely are any pre-84 WWF TV matches that are gems like this. I gave Gordi the Battle of Atlantic City three years ago from weirdo local WWWF TV and it's great but kind of too long.

This is a cheat since it's a Philly house show match but I don't think I've given it to anyone and the heat is off the charts. I did post it when Sheik died and wrote about it on SC though:

And if these weren't what you were thinking, I'm going to break your rule and just give you Tito vs Windham from 89 or something (Or the late 90s Texas vs Memphis WWF match maybe?)

I got nothing right now. We got too many sick kids and adults for me to think through what I'd like. Pick a match that you like a ton (or hate!) and want to see me write about. That's good enough for me.

Okay, the one I've chosen to review at this time is the second match here, though the first sounds like a lot of fun and will watch later. In addition, the ones if you broke the rules Matt would've also been fantastic. I haven't seen Tito/Barry but I have seen the Shotgun Memphis/Texas match which is a hoot and a half!

 

Doing a little research here before starting to watch it, the match description says its JYD's Philly Debut, which looking into, we're about two months removed from his first WWF appearance, he doesn't seem to have too much of note up north before this outside of a match on Cagematch where JYD's the sixth man to the Wild Samoans going against Big John Studd and the Moondogs. Don't know if theres footage of that but I do love there are competing dogs on each side of that match. Let's hit play on this bad boy.

Sheik and Volkoff come down first and the crowd's tossing all sorts of garbage at them before the anthem even plays. That's some heat baby. Volkoff's USSR shirt is very shoddy. Iron Sheik's billed from Teheran on the chyron, we get Sarge billed and the crowd goes crazy but that's when Volkoff requests the anthem to be played! Double Middle Fingers right behind Volkoff, I love this crowd at the Spectrum. JYD comes down to Bad to the Bone? Had no idea! JYD is the most patriotic man I ever seen with the flag and hat. The Sarge really has a moonface doesn't he? Sarge avoids stolen valor in his location being billed from Paris Island rather than Parris Island.  Sarge enters the ring and Sheik wastes no time laying in blows, but quickly the Axis is driven out by JYD joining the fray. Our referee Dick Worley's got a tough task ahead of him keeping order. Well, I guess Sheik or Volkoff need to enter the ring for order to be kept, they are stalling with the best of them. Sheik's in, Sheik's out. Volkoff In, Volkoff out, but now finally it's Sheik and Slaughter and Sheik's spitting at the Sarge! Crowd is still on fire here and all we've got has been Sheik being punched down and in a headlock. Slaughter's off the ropes and kicks Volkoff of, back to another headlock to Sheik. Sheik tries the same thing to JYD but now Sheik's stuck being punched back and forth between Slaughter and Dog. Slaughter gets cocky and goes back for another Volkoff blow but gets tangled up and held as Sheik recovers but no! Slaughter's free and Sheik delivers one beautiful knee to Volkoff and he's down. Sarge is pumping that crowd up, Volkoff gets up and tags in as the partners make peace. The USA chants are filling the air and Sarge is thriving off this energy. JYD wants to get in that ring bad, and the fans only get wilder once he's in. JYD's coming in head down, mouth open biting at Volkoff and Sheik, both him and Philly are rabid here. JYD looks massive (in a good way) here, and he shrugs off Sheik's turnbuckle head slam, only to give Sheik his own medicine and here's JYD just in the groove, great stuff. Sarge tagged back in and bites the Sheik himself! Sheik goes for a kick but gets the leg caught by Sarge who turns it into a beautiful backbreaker and a stomp to the gut. Sheik's a geek as he's getting double gutbusted. Volkoff breaks up the pin attempt but it might not be enough as JYD gets tagged in and drops a headbutt to the fallen Iranian. Dog stays on all fours and gives another headbutt to Sheik as he tries to rise back up. Quick tag back to JYD gets Sarge back in, but he eats a kick from the crazy pointed boots and falls right over. Yeah, he's in trouble here, Volkoff takes over the beatdown of Sarge, getting tossed and hung up in the corner. The second irish whip hits the corner chest first and Sarge gets launched back, it's a wild fall. Sheik gets his boot up for Volkoff to bash Sarge's head into and now we've got blood. Sarge is bleeding and woozy and can't get back in control here. The crowd is pissed and want to see USA overcome. Quick tag bringing Sheik in and fast enough to cut off Sarge's tag to JYD. Sheik gets a two and a half off the gutwrench. Slaughter's trapped in the heels corner here, JYD tries to get in but gets sent back by the ref. Extended heel control until Sarge counters a suplex of Sheik's! And he gets to his corner, and he goes to tag JYD but no he falls first! Sheik tries to reign  in the Sarge again but Slaughter's determined to get that hot tag! JYD's in! Crowd is loving every second of this as both of them get wrecked by JYD until a missed headbutt to Sheik. Sarge is trying to get back up on the apron so JYD get tag in, but Sarge's running on fumes. Volkoff keeps a nerve hold on JYD during this, not much happening while JYD tries to get the energy to break out of it. Sheik tags in, keeps the hold. JYD's trying to crawl over but down goes Slaughter from another Sheik blow. Sarge gets up just as the Camel Clutch is getting locked in, but Slaughter gets revived and attacks Sheik to break it up, attacks Volkoff! Shoves down the ref! Pandemonium, fists a flying, JYD charges the corner where everyone's fighting, ref calls for the bell, Slaughter shoves down the ref again.  JYD/Slaughter beat down Volkoff in the corner but Volkoff and Sheik escape outside and they've had enough, and that's what Dick Worley has had, and calls the match a double DQ.

 

What a match, that crowd was into everything, JYD had great hot tags, Sarge bled. Loved the match, thank you for this Secret Santo~! gift, and I hope you enjoyed my Wall-o-Text!

[porksweats]

edited for double post

Edited December 9, 2023 by porksweats
double post

[Matt D]

Good job everyone. Here's Week 2.

@The Natural
Matt D
---
@Curt McGirt
@brynn9292
---
@porksweats
@Zimbra
---
@Casey
@Gordi the former AEW fan
---
@Sammo~! >>> @John E. Dynamite >>> @HeadCheese (Which means that HeadCheese gives a match to Sammo~!). John joined in and we ended up with an odd number anyway, but hey, the more the merrier.

Paul, got a match in mind for you later today.

[The Natural]

5 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Good job everyone. Here's Week 2.

@The Natural
Matt D
---
@Curt McGirt
@brynn9292
---
@porksweats
@Zimbra
---
@Casey
@Gordi the former AEW fan
---
@Sammo~! >>> @John E. Dynamite >>> @HeadCheese (Which means that HeadCheese gives a match to Sammo~!). John joined in and we ended up with an odd number anyway, but hey, the more the merrier.

Paul, got a match in mind for you later today.

Cheers, Matt. Anything you do/don't fancy?

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Casey, after really getting into the Bull tag that Curt gave me in Week One, I wanna take advantage of getting paired with our resident Bull Nakano Expert this week, and get your informed opinion on one of these sub-30-minute Nakano title matches. 100% your choice, which one, whether it's one you know well and have strong opinions on or one you are somehow not yet familiar with. I would just like to read your take.

For me, I prefer a weird, interesting, or violent match to a Meltzer/Keith *****+ "great" match, but really any non-WWE, non-NXT YouTube wrestling video you think I might enjoy or you'd like my take on would be fine, please & thank you.

 

Now that's a bunch of Bull!

Edited December 10, 2023 by Gordi the former AEW fan

[The Natural]

On 12/7/2023 at 4:10 PM, Casey said:

CHAIN MATCH: Bull Nakano vs Shinobu Kandori

It’s age restricted because of the blood and how violent it is. So you’ll probably need an account to watch it on YouTube? But it’s worth it. Not really talked about all that much amongst Bull’s classics with Aja Kong or Akira Hokuto or the like, maybe because it wasn’t on one of those big AJW supershows. For my money, it’s one of the more violent Bull matches. I really wish a deathmatch against Megumi Kudo or Shark Tsuchiya existed, but, alas.

Anyway. It doesn’t have any blood drinking like Hangman/Swerve, or glass, or anything. But in a lot of ways it’s more visceral and brutal. You should also know that this is basically just a falls count anywhere/No DQ match that happens to involve a chain. No touching the ring posts or anything.

 

EDIT: I’m also going to watch your match tonight (I haven’t seen it! Shocker, right?) but I’ll do so on Peacock since YouTube is OBNOXIOUS with mid-video ads these days. But I’ll get to it tonight!

Bull Nakano vs Shinobu Kandori in a Chain Match.

You've summed the match up well which I've just finished watching. Quite the weight difference. I wasn't sure whether to bring that up as I know it's a sensitive issue talking about somebody's appearance speaking from experience but it's a complement to both pulling it off credibly here. This is my first Shinobu Kandori match. What I liked about the match that it wasn't a hat on a hat like recent WarGames matches use added weaponry, here the focus is on the chain itself. Bull pulling Kandori into a clothesline as an example. Chain chokes. Nakano's top leg drop gets her the win, thing of beauty that is. Cheers, Casey!