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Full Gear IV - 11/19/2022


Dolfan in NYC
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4 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

They have twice as many things that need athletically support/to be covered up to be allowed on TV? Some of those things are way harder to keep strapped in than anything a dude has, stick right out of the front and exist near rotating arms and shoulders that most workers don't want sleeved-in? Wrestling creates a far higher number of wardrobe-malfunction circumstances than other athletic endeavors? Millennia of gender relations and politics have created an entertainment industry that rewards skimpiness? Which is only amplified by professional wrestling's historic demographics? Said gender imbalances mean there's proportionally less women in sports i.e. less priority in creating female athletic wear? I mean fuck man it's a LOT of things.

Mildred Burke: Founder of the World Women's Wrestling ...

Lou Thesz - Wikipedia

we historically the women wore more coverage then the men.

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1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I BET YOU DID.

Kind of hard not to when there are also multiple memes of her sitting on the rope adjusting her hair and her top while waiting for Nyla to leg drop her.  If I'm being honest it was probably one of the top 5 worst AEW matches ever. 

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37 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Kind of hard not to when there are also multiple memes of her sitting on the rope adjusting her hair and her top while waiting for Nyla to leg drop her.  If I'm being honest it was probably one of the top 5 worst AEW matches ever. 

But Pedro, there were more than 5 Jimmy Havoc matches, no way was it worse than any of those.

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I'm not going to get distracted into a "Misawa adjusted his tights all the time" tangent.

INSTEAD.

I've been thinking about what rationale Regal might use to justify this. First and foremost, I still think it's very important that this wasn't some long-running, premeditated plan but instead an act of opportunity that came after MJF proved himself by throwing the ring away.

That still leads to why MJF instead of Mox, right? What I'd like to see is a promo from Regal where the big hingepoint is a sentence like "But dear Jonathan, as sorrowful as it makes me to say this, you have become a hero," which then spins out on how Moxley's no longer a proper villain because he's taken the company and carried it on his shoulders through fire and darkness and has become the sort of champion that all should look up to and how that simply won't do.

That sort of thing.

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1 hour ago, Pedro said:

Kind of hard not to when there are also multiple memes of her sitting on the rope adjusting her hair and her top while waiting for Nyla to leg drop her.  If I'm being honest it was probably one of the top 5 worst AEW matches ever. 

But Britt Baker wasn't even in it.

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2 hours ago, (BP) said:

I don’t think we should underestimate how much more nihilistic and amoral people are on average than in 2011, especially in my neck of the woods. Max was a hero last night, a slimy cheating hero. 

As Bob Dylan sang, “In Jersey everything's legal as long as you don’t get caught.” 

Mate - the Jersey Shore was at its absolute peak in 2011. This is not some new age of amorality: if anything it has heightened in the other direction (see: Caster's previous suspension).

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1 minute ago, A_K said:

Mate - the Jersey Shore was at its absolute peak in 2011. This is not some new age of amorality: if anything it has heightened in the other direction (see: Caster's previous suspension).

Yeah, there were overzealous gimmick posters on message boards then too, but that’s gotten worse. 

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2 hours ago, Andrew POE! said:

This is the biggest reason / problem I have with MJF winning the title at Full Gear. The fans wanted to cheer MJF - so give them a reason to cheer him. Have him lose against Moxley and want a rematch on Dynamite. Regal tells him that Moxley is on vacation and will defend the title when he feels like it. Make Regal/Moxley the true heels everyone wants them to be - Moxley and Regal fought and it would be a similar relationship to Roman Reigns and Paul Heyman. Have MJF be a babyface with an edge and fight whatever obstacles Moxley/Regal throw at him to lead up to the rematch for the title (have him face former members of The Firm, have him face Claudio / Danielson / Yuta). Maybe Yuta, Claudio or Danielson get cold feet about fighting MJF and Moxley/Regal kick them out of the Combat Club. So MJF has a de facto partner in all of this while people wonder if he's really a 'good guy' despite getting screwed over.

Instead, no we get MJF winning the World title because he had incredible promos against Jon Moxley and William Regal, not on the basis of his actual matches. TK books wrestling like he's in college with a final paper that he started on the night before.

This is all good except I must have missed the incredible promos.

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3 minutes ago, (BP) said:

Yeah, there were overzealous gimmick posters on message boards then too, but that’s gotten worse. 

Oh no, you're right. The Jersey Shore era of 2011 with Snooki and Pauly D was a bastion of  social morality and good-taste compared to today. Whatever was I thinking?! Kids today just don't have manners.

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1 minute ago, A_K said:

Oh no, you're right. The Jersey Shore era of 2011 with Snooki and Pauly D was a bastion of  social morality and good-taste compared to today. Whatever was I thinking?! Kids today just don't have manners.

My posts weren’t about the MTV Program The Jersey Shore, this is weird. 

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1 minute ago, (BP) said:

My posts weren’t about the MTV Program The Jersey Shore, this is weird. 

I'm sorry - shall I try and make this simple for you? 

1 minute ago, (BP) said:

I don’t think we should underestimate how much more nihilistic and amoral people are on average than in 2011, especially in my neck of the woods.
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Thread is perfectly alive. If somebody posits the idea that the crowd cheering MJF is down to 2022 being this remarkably "immoral and nihilistic" world we live in compared to a decade ago, which was demonstrably far sleazier in many ways than today, they should be able to deal with a riposte without becoming .. scratchy? I can see it is a sensitive subject though, clearly, so happy to let that pessimistic view be embraced.

As for why MJF was actually cheered .. well, as other posters have already highlighted, its because he has the best character work in the company and has done a beast of a job at keeping things fresh even when dealt some very poor material / circumstances and most of the rest of the show has become terribly stale around him. Or .. it could be because they're all immoral nihilists. Who knows. Carry on.

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Carrying on.

  • 4 way for the ROH title: Lots of individual spots, sequences, and character bits I really liked here. The big highlights were Danielson and Claudio colliding and Jericho and Sammy doing the same, of course, with the secondary stuff when Claudio and Danielson worked together or Sammy and Jericho worked together. I loved the BCC guys going at it with the reversals of the hammer and anvil elbows, because it felt like two guys using the same specific martial art able to counter the signature move back and forth as they knew it so well. Sammy is the guy on the roster that I really don't want to like, but you put him in there with more of a base and he does some really good stuff. Like, I don't want to like his leapfrog/backflip/standing Spanish Fly take on the Jimmy Snuka signature spot, but I do! I just can't help it. The bit where he leaped up, hit the top rope cutter on Claudio and then the top rope Spanish Fly on Danielson was pretty amazing. Claudio catching Sammy's shooting star press to the floor was just picture perfect basing and I loved the gorilla press spot too. Jericho's antics were good here and the finish of him just diving into the giant swing was nuts. Yes, guys were on the floor for too long at times (Claudio especially) in a way that isn't correct relative to how long they'd be down in another sort of match, but in general, I did like this a lot and I'm looking forward to go back through it so I can write it up for SC.
  • Saraya vs Paige: I wouldn't call this good but it made me hopeful that Saraya has value and can figure it out. Again, Britt understanding the value of having Saraya's brother at ringside is the stuff she does so well. I liked that she targeted the neck throughout but some of the entry points were too cutesy and I wish Saraya's late match selling was as good as her fake selling at the start. There should have been some real sense of cumulative damage in this one given the focus. The bigger issue was that she was having trouble getting from spot A to B and they kind of ran out of stuff? Lots of air raid crashes and attempts. The running knees, that weirdly early Ram-Paige. That was combined with the fans not being familiar with Saraya's moves (though I like renaming the Paige Turner the Nightcap?). I always loved the Ram-Paige but the first one she barely had control on; the second and third were both hit differently but both looked good, but I did get the sense the fans just weren't familiar. Sometimes it just seemed like Paige was just kind of stumbling about, not even that she was moving into the next spot but that she was moving without purpose. She got there eventually, but... All that said, and like I started with, I think with some time in front of crowds and in matches, she can get back to where she was. The problem is that AEW isn't set up to give her those opportunities too easily. She really needs a bunch of singles and tag matches on Dark against Diamante and Emi Sakura and the Bunny and Kiera Hogan and Serena Deeb and whoever but she's not going to get that shot (and if she did, people would bellyache about it).
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