Tabe Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Is that the median outcome from a 34 year old Teixiera, though?) 2011: .248/.341/.494 2012: .251/.332/.475 2013: .151/.270/.340 (63 PA) I think a more realistic expectation is his 2012 season, if not a continued downward trend from that point. I suspect you're probably right. I did say "if". Maybe a year off recovering from injury, hitting some roids and HGH or whatever will rejuvenate the guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 You'll feel better when he has a era in the mid 4's and a couple of DL stints in a year or two. 20 million a year for an unproven MLB pitcher is insane. . . I never really got it either. A starter who depends on a splitter being perfect every time seems like he will eventually be worn down to a nub in Wrigley. I don't think Craig has lost a franchise guy here at all. In fact, signing him would have been the cubbiest cubby thing to do and not getting him is probably a good sign...although a better one would have been not chasing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Red Sox have signed Grady SIzemore to a 750k contract. He's coming off microfrature surgery and miss the last two years(per 4 letter story). That's the kind of signing a defending champion can do, a relatively inexpensive lottery ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireThunder Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm ok with not signing a #3 starter for more than $20 million a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It isn't missing out on Tanaka that stings, but rather that it's becoming clear that JedStein put all of their eggs in one basket and didn't care to have a backup plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbymark Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The backup plan was to try and sign Tanaka. The main idea is still in play, developing Baez, Soler, Alcantara, Bryant, etc. The days of trying to do it a la Jim Hendry are over, and I for one am glad to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not saying to go all Hendry, but I think it was a mistake to punt on opportunities with other free agents to put all of their hopes into signing Tanaka, while expressing that they're not going after anyone else because of the 2nd round draft pick compensation, and then have Tanaka sign with the Yankees. I'm fully behind the youth movement, but at the same time, the lateral movements need to stop. They're essentially at the poker table, but are getting blinded out because they're just waiting to flop a nut flush, and it just never comes. Besides, pitching is important, but they need to improve their OBP and situational hitting. I'm hoping Renteria helps in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 All the other pitchers on the market, like Santana, Jimenez, Garza, etc? They're not going to be anything *but* a drain on the payroll when the Baby Cubs are ready to roar (sorry, awful pun). You're essentially saying "they need to throw money around to appease the fans", ignoring how terribly that worked out last year with Jackson, who isn't even a stopgap. So the Cubs give Jimenez 4/60 - great. They still win roughly 70 games in 2014, maybe 72 in 2015 - then what? The Cubs just blew $30 million to....appease the pink hats, or whatever they're called in Chicago? Big fucking deal. And not that money is an issue for the Cubs, but that's $15 million less they'll have to spend on players who might actually contribute to their long-term future. This isn't the Orioles or Indians foolishly standing pat coming off of a playoff berth - this is a team that only needs to make "a huge move" for PR reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChesterCopperpot Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 4 years $52million for Matt Garza to Milwaukee Brewers pending a physical - per Ken Rosenthal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Garza's elbow will blow up 1 year into that deal. And in news that pisses me off to no end, it came out that the Cubs only bid 6/$120, same as the White Sox, and balked at bidding anything higher than that when it was clear that money wasn't going to get it done against the Dodgers or Yankees. So a bulk of this offseason had JedStein talking about how signing Tanaka was a priority, when they didn't have any intention of making a realistic bid to land the guy. Great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Darn. Now the Cubs are going to have to look elsewhere for their #4 starter once they're good again. Fuck's sake, Craig. Spending $$$ just because you can is not ever a good strategy. You know what decreases in value less than pitchers? Well, everything, really, but most of all: Money. The Cubs holding their money is the equivalent of sticking it in a T-Bill rather than buying a Ferrari. I get you want the Ferrari, but it's a dumb investment in the future. That $170M you wanted the Cubs to blow on a guy who'd be spending his best years on a bad team can be spent on someone who will address the needs the team has once they're actually good again. Or possibly 5 someones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Lucia Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Balfour Rage is also heading back to Tampa. 2/12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Where literally dozens of fans will get hyped for his entrance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. HmmmWhat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. Any idea on the three? Thought Dwight Gooden might be one but he's not. Depending on how they calculated it (innings before 24th birthday? or innings up through their age 24 season?), one of 'em is Frank Tanana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. Any idea on the three? Thought Dwight Gooden might be one but he's not. Depending on how they calculated it (innings before 24th birthday? or innings up through their age 24 season?), one of 'em is Frank Tanana. Finally found the original article by verducci on cnnsi.com, its Tanana, blyleven and Larry Dierker. Burt Blyleven ended up just short of 5k innings, and ultimately the HOF obviously, Tanana had a nice long career after arm surgery in his mid twenties, and Dierker sort of fell of a cliff. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Darn. Now the Cubs are going to have to look elsewhere for their #4 starter once they're good again. Fuck's sake, Craig. Spending $$$ just because you can is not ever a good strategy. You know what decreases in value less than pitchers? Well, everything, really, but most of all: Money. The Cubs holding their money is the equivalent of sticking it in a T-Bill rather than buying a Ferrari. I get you want the Ferrari, but it's a dumb investment in the future. That $170M you wanted the Cubs to blow on a guy who'd be spending his best years on a bad team can be spent on someone who will address the needs the team has once they're actually good again. Or possibly 5 someones. You're mistaking what I'm annoyed about. I'm annoyed that Theo and Jed made certain intentions known, when in all actuality, they had no intention of doing anything other than the bare minimum. I've been vocal before about the concerns for Tanaka, but if they weren't going all in like they said they were, then they shouldn't have said that. Better yet, they could have been more productive in other ways, except they chose to continue making lateral moves, finding talent that they could later flip for minor league talent. We're now headed into year 3 of their 5 year deal, and each year the maturation date for contending gets pushed back a year. When they came aboard they spoke of dual tracks, but they've only taken a single track approach. They're clearly banking on their minor league talent to be what propels the major league team, but the majority of the talent they're banking on is probably 2 to 3 years away from having any kind of impact. In that time, if the major league team continues on with 60 win seasons, Theo and Jed are going to be fired or they're not going to have their contracts renewed. That then means a new GM comes in with a different vision and the team then goes in yet another direction. In essence, Theo and Jed are betting huge on what could be a very long shot. It would be wonderful if Tom Ricketts and Crane Kenney would see this through, but continual declines in ticket sales from year to year could force their hand. So that's my fear and why I've been grousing so much the last couple days. It has less to do with not signing Tanaka, and more to do with the implications in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbymark Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I think Ricketts is willing to see it through since he (or his daddy depending on your perspective) bankrolled a major part of the purchase price. I also don't see the Ricketts family doing a Miami Marlins and coercing a city to give them a crap load of money for a stadium renovation only to gut the team a year later, seeing as the potential big time pieces will be team controlled and bargains in MLB money. Furthermore, if Theo and Jed are really into sabremetrics, it doesn't make sense to grossly overpay for one or two more wins from starting pitchers who aren't getting any younger and have lots of mileage on them. I agree the pitching prospects in the minors aren't all there, but by stockpiling all these minor league pieces, it's conceivable the Cubs will in fact make a move to obtain David Price via trade. That's the one guy I feel that is available that would really be worth making a push towards, with the added plus that he's an awesome left handed pitcher, and those guys don't at all grow on trees. The Yankees would be maxed out as they'll be paying through the nose for aging dudes and Tanaka, don't have the minor league system to pull it off, and I highly doubt the Rays would trade Price to a division rival. Same story for the Red Sox. The Dodgers have tons of money tied up as well, and I don't think they have the minor league pieces either. Ubaldo Jimenez and Matt Garza aren't the kind of guys at this stage in the game that will be difference makers for the salaries they believe they merit. David Price is a different story. He's going to cost you prospects, and $$$ but he has a proven track record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Regarding the ballpark, Ricketts is financing it 100% on their own with no help from the city or it's people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbymark Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Cubs avoid arbitration for Travis Wood. $3.9 million. That's a smart move. He'll cost about $10 million less than Ubaldo Jimenez and Garza, and be better than those two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. Any idea on the three? Thought Dwight Gooden might be one but he's not. Depending on how they calculated it (innings before 24th birthday? or innings up through their age 24 season?), one of 'em is Frank Tanana. Finally found the original article by verducci on cnnsi.com, its Tanana, blyleven and Larry Dierker. Burt Blyleven ended up just short of 5k innings, and ultimately the HOF obviously, Tanana had a nice long career after arm surgery in his mid twenties, and Dierker sort of fell of a cliff. . . Dierker got hurt - twice. He was fine his first 10 seasons, getting hurt in 1973, pitched a couple more years, then retired at age 30 after getting hurt again. He actually had a pretty nice career, playing parts of 13 years in the majors, winning 20 once, 300 innings once, leading the league in wild pitches once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Cubs avoid arbitration for Travis Wood. $3.9 million. That's a smart move. He'll cost about $10 million less than Ubaldo Jimenez and Garza, and be better than those two. $3.9 million for their #1 starting pitcher is a pretty good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 a tweet from Mike Reinold, retweeted by Gammons: Tanaka has thrown 1,315 IP in Japan. Only 3 pitchers threw that many IP by age 24 in MLB in last 50 years. Hmmm. Any idea on the three? Thought Dwight Gooden might be one but he's not. Depending on how they calculated it (innings before 24th birthday? or innings up through their age 24 season?), one of 'em is Frank Tanana. Finally found the original article by verducci on cnnsi.com, its Tanana, blyleven and Larry Dierker. Burt Blyleven ended up just short of 5k innings, and ultimately the HOF obviously, Tanana had a nice long career after arm surgery in his mid twenties, and Dierker sort of fell of a cliff. . . Dierker got hurt - twice. He was fine his first 10 seasons, getting hurt in 1973, pitched a couple more years, then retired at age 30 after getting hurt again. He actually had a pretty nice career, playing parts of 13 years in the majors, winning 20 once, 300 innings once, leading the league in wild pitches once It was also a different era, but having coaches protect him might have had him last longer. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubbymark Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Robin Ventura gets a multiyear extension to stay on as manager for the White Sox. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/01/white-sox-extend-robin-ventura.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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