MapRef41N93W Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 I'm with you! I have no problem with jumping to make lifts easier, or Irish whips. I do have to retract something I said earlier, though: it's definitely possible to do that kind of cross-leg vertical suplex setup without making it look like the opponent is picking their foot up for no reason. I went looking for clips of it being done wrong and quickly find several of Omega doing it right. (Here he is doing it to Heath Slater back in his FCW days.) But then there are examples like this: So I guess it's on the person taking the move more than I initially thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 It's always cooperative, so if the timing is off, you'll get stuff like that. I mean, doing a wacky submission to a human being is basically impossible the way its done in wrestling as they just lay there and let you control their limbs. There's ways around it, but there's no real point in caring too much, but I can see why it would bother some. Watch Marufuji take a DDT a few times. You'll start hating it. He blatantly plants himself with a headstand. I've seen him do it on a botched DDT and it looked hilariously dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapRef41N93W Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 9 hours ago, Ryan said: I mean, doing a wacky submission to a human being is basically impossible the way its done in wrestling as they just lay there and let you control their limbs. I hate that too! A lot of pro wrestling matwork is awful. But I suppose when the audience doesn't care, the performers don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spritenaut 32 Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 9 hours ago, Ryan said: I mean, doing a wacky submission to a human being is basically impossible the way its done in wrestling as they just lay there and let you control their limbs. Cooperation? Milano Collection AT is sure he has no idea what you're talking about: Spoiler For the record, Milano working the wacky submission style in Toryumon - llave - is one of my favorite things in wrestling and Milano is easily a top 10 guy for me. I still have to try not to laugh when I watch old Toryumon tapes these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 And the only move he kept after that fizzled out was the Paradise Lock. And then he had to retire cause Gedo kicked him in the eye socket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Does Milano react at all when SANADA does the Paradise Lock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 minute ago, Ace said: Does Milano react at all when SANADA does the Paradise Lock? I assume so, I believe he's using it to mock him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Otto Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Ace said: Does Milano react at all when SANADA does the Paradise Lock? Yes, he absolutely does. The best word to describe it is that Milano acts aghast at the audacity of that man who cannot be governed, SANADA. How dare he?! It's great. The peak of it was a while back when SANADA did it directly in front of the commentators table in every match for about six months straight. Milano took it as such a personal insult, and it gave a more distinct, heelish character to Sanada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Otto Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 10 hours ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said: Cooperation? Milano Collection AT is sure he has no idea what you're talking about: Hide contents For the record, Milano working the wacky submission style in Toryumon - llave - is one of my favorite things in wrestling and Milano is easily a top 10 guy for me. I still have to try not to laugh when I watch old Toryumon tapes these days. Milano Collection AT is definitely in my top 10, maybe top 5, in terms of "what if...?" performers who had to call it quits due to a career-ending injury. Potential main event level talent for sure. The first two generations of Toryumon trainees and the matches from those early years were brilliant. I haven't personally watched anything recently, but it was so innovative and the crowd atmosphere was so positive at that time, I'm sure it still holds up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Alan talks about DG pretty frequently on his show and the past few months they've had some incredibly well received matches. I may have to check some of it out. As Otto said, Milano used to get indignant but the last time I remember hearing him call a Sanada match with the Paradise Lock in it, I remember him saying "HE LOVES ME! HE LOOOOVES ME!" So I think he's now taking it as an ode rather than an insult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Yeah, there's been a turnaround as Milano and LIJ as a whole have become friendly and Milano seems tilted toward them in their matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Well, LIJ in general has softened over the past year to the point where I think it's a stretch to even call them tweeners anymore. They pretty much never engage in old Bullet Club/current Suzuki-gun interference and shenanigans anymore. Hiromu was brought in as a dangerous wild man, but now he's portrayed as the goofball little brother who has weddings for stuffed animals. Sanada used to rock black leather and a badass skull mask and carry a bat, but now he wears standard tights and...some type of goofy mask with antlers...and incorporates increasingly silly holds into his moveset. Even Naito has become Booby Roode-esque in his willingness to milk the crowd for babyface pops whil ostensibly portraying a heel. He spits in people's faces, but also cuts promos talking about entertaining the fans. EVIL is pretty much the only member who's remained largely unchanged from his introduction, both in appearance and character, and generally seems like a presence the rest tolerate more than anything, nd you can see Gedo planting the seeds to split him off from the group already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 The present dynamic in New Japan is interesting, in that the top two nominal heels in the company--Naito and Omega--mostly get cheered, move a ton of merch, and openly concern themselves with how the fans perceive them. There are pretty extensive kayfabe character reasons for this in both cases, but it's still atypical, even in the age of everyone arguing "the heels are the real faces!" It also contrasts pretty sharply with Okada, who does want to please the fans (he always says as much), but is primarily presented as arrogant and somewhat aloof. A small for-instance: Of the three, which one spends way less time interacting with fans on the way to the ring? A possibly impossible question to answer that occurred to me, post Roppongi 3K's debut: Are wrestlers expected to come up with and essentially pitch their return gimmicks, while out on excursion? Or does "the office" pull them back, hand them something that's already developed, and push them out the curtain? Probably it's a little of both, and depends on the case, but I've heard virtually nothing about how this goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MapRef41N93W Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 6 hours ago, EVA said: Sanada used to rock black leather and a badass skull mask and carry a bat, but now he wears standard tights and...some type of goofy mask with antlers I find this so odd. SANADA with the skull and black jacket was one of the coolest-looking guys in wrestling. Why did they mess with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Otto Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 While I certainly agree that the skull mask was the best look, it appears to me that they may be trying out different skulls for SANADA to wear, as odd as that may sound. In that sense, I'm interested to see where it goes, as it's a pretty clever idea. Stegosaurus skull? I'm in. With the reign he's had so far, it would make perfect sense for Okada to act more and more like a heel, and I think we've seen glimpses of it. Why wouldn't he? I like how they're not rushing it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I believe the guys work pretty closely with the office on how they're going to be when the return in most cases. Like they asked Hiromu if he wanted to come back a junior or a heavy for instance according to I believe a Liger interview or something like that. Gedo and Jado seems willing to let the guys develop their own personas as they move up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp, broken circa 1988 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 hey, so, uh, apropos of nothing- I watched the first half of the most recent NOAH Great Voyage in Yokohama card, and I had a total blast. Is NOAH pretty much This Kind Of Good Now, or was this a one time only kind of nonsense card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Evil Otto said: While I certainly agree that the and more like a heel, and I think we've seen glimpses of it. Why wouldn't he? I like how they're not rushing it, though. I see what you did there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevendaughters Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I can certainly buy Kitamura as a Goldberg-type for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 If he tanned excessively and was a vampire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevendaughters Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 excessively for VANILLA MIDGETS, jack! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 .... What? He's basically 6 feet tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 That spear, god-DAMN. Even though I haven't seen a single match of his, I want him facing Sekimoto and Okayabashi already. Maybe make it a six-man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts