JANUARY 2024 Wrestling Talk

[Elsalvajeloco]

49 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

You can’t really compare Brody with LeDuc, Brody was a superstar with a presence only a few in the business ever had and could work. LeDuc was a star in some territories, had a crazy look and promos to go with it but was average to way below average in the ring, plus didn’t he have drug issues. 
 

Yeah, I am not saying LeDuc was a better worker cause that definitely wouldn't be true. He certainly worked for what was required of him, which wasn't much. However, "superstar presence" is more intangible than tangible. Folks didn't bring in LeDuc cause he was a great worker. In that era of WWF, it's 50/50 at better that you will be utilized based on what you're great at or your history. Tully and Arn came in as themselves. Terry Taylor and Jim Duggan, no so much. Rick Rude and Jake Roberts got their presentation cleaned up, which helped make them seemed like huge superstars. Dusty got polka dots. You got take the good with the bad. I mean I would have been fine with Bruiser Brody lite, but even that's not a guarantee. Hell, we probably would have gotten Frankie Perdue Jr., the son of chicken czar Frank Perdue. 

49 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

Timeline wise I can see Brody coming in from July 1989 to around May of 1990, taking Mr. Perfect’s spot in house show main events for December to March, basically another version of Hulk vs. a monster like his runs with Kamala and Killer Kahn. Brody’s vignettes would start in July, he debuts at SummerSlam squashing someone like Tito Santana, maybe a house show run in the fall against Snuka, run some sort of angle with Hogan before Survivor Series for the markets who are getting the first of their house show matches, do another angle with them right after Survivor Series for the national audience, then their house show run goes from December 1989 to March 1990. After WM not sure what they’d do, was SWS going at that point? Would Brody work for them then maybe come back in the Summer to work some more house show mains with Hogan?
 

There is a timeline where ironically Mark Calaway doesn't become "Kane, the Undertaker" and that role somehow goes to his most notable opponent as a green wrestler, Bruiser Brody. Then, it becomes a question of what do you give the former where he can have as long a run as he actually had?

[odessasteps]

You wonder if Vince would have 100% trusted Brody not to hold him up for a payday if he was main event ing a PPV or SNME vs Hogan. 

[Mister TV]

11 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You wonder if Vince would have 100% trusted Brody not to hold him up for a payday if he was main event ing a PPV or SNME vs Hogan. 

I don’t think Brody would have gotten either against Hogan, it’d be a house show run similar to Hogan’s ones against Kamala and Killer Khan. But I can see Brody bailing just like Kamala did when they wanted him to put over Hulk on SNME after the house show run was over, but I think Vince would realize that and not even book it. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

12 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You wonder if Vince would have 100% trusted Brody not to hold him up for a payday if he was main event ing a PPV or SNME vs Hogan. 

 

1 minute ago, Mister TV said:

I don’t think Brody would have gotten either against Hogan, it’d be a house show run similar to Hogan’s ones against Kamala and Killer Khan. But I can see Brody bailing just like Kamala did when they wanted him to put over Hulk on SNME after the house show run was over, but I think Vince would realize that and not even book it. 

There is a good chance Brody, not really loving the insane WWF schedule, has had enough and just no shows an event at like the Mid Hudson Civic Center never to be heard of in WWF again. Just resurfaces in Puerto Rico and probably Global in the twilight of his career and pop ups in fan conventions and Cauliflower Alley every now and again. 

[Curt McGirt]

Brody already had his own company for something set up; he had business cards and everything. I don't know if it was for booking or what. 

What was the story behind Jos getting fired again? I think the Rockers dared him to take a bunch of pills and he ended up flat-out unconscious in front of Vince who got rid of him on the spot? 

[Elsalvajeloco]

7 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Brody already had his own company for something set up; he had business cards and everything. I don't know if it was for booking or what. 

What was the story behind Jos getting fired again? I think the Rockers dared him to take a bunch of pills and he ended up flat-out unconscious in front of Vince who got rid of him on the spot? 

Judging by his work, he wasn't long for WWF either way. He was just a terrible fit for WWF.

[odessasteps]

You also wonder if some Japanese money man (wink wink) would have tried to get Brody to jump to Someth8ng like SWS. Would he taken the death match money to work with Onita? Insert Brody into the rotation with Foley and Funk.

[Curt McGirt]

I'm reading the Blood and Thunder Vol. 2 book about the Japanese indies and SWS + WAR are both in this edition. He would have definitely taken that Meganesuper optical company money. They were desperate for a star and had to go with Tenryu because everybody else was too locked in and he was getting too old news in All Japan.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Just now, odessasteps said:

You also wonder if some Japanese money man (wink wink) would have tried to get Brody to jump to Someth8ng like SWS. Would he taken the death match money to work with Onita? Insert Brody into the rotation with Foley and Funk.

Onita vs. Brody would have been license to print money in Japan, but we're talking bordering on 50 year old Bruiser Brody. Maybe early FMW in like 91/92 ish? 

But yeah, I can see him doing SWS or some other Japanese money mark promotion. W*NG superstar Bruiser Brody.

[Log]

Had Brody burned his bridge with All Japan?

I don't know where he stood with them at the time of his death. I just noticed no one has thrown out any scenario where he goes back to All Japan.

Was he not welcome there, or is the though just that the style had changed so much at that point, he wouldn't be a good fit?

[odessasteps]

Brody is around 2 years younger than Terry. He was born in 46, so him doing the stuff that Funk or Abby were doing in the mid to late 90s is not outrageous. 
 

which brings us to Brody potentially working for Joel Goodhart, Herb Abrams and then Tod/Paul. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, odessasteps said:

Brody is around 2 years younger than Terry. He was born in 46, so him doing the stuff that Funk or Abby were doing in the mid to late 90s is not outrageous. 
 

which brings us to Brody potentially working for Joel Goodhart, Herb Abrams and then Tod/Paul. 

Terry also kinda accepted he was going to be a rough physical shape. IIRC wasn't Terry shot to pieces or significantly injured in 89 against Ric? Funk and Abby (ESPECIALLY Terry Funk) are like major exceptions to the rule. Gypsy Joe as well. It's plausible, but you have to remember you get a variance of some of his contemporaries being around. A lot of them faded away once the territories were pretty much gone. Yeah, I can see working for some indies but blowing himself up and setting himself on fire could be a stretch for anyone unless we see them do it.

7 minutes ago, Log said:

Had Brody burned his bridge with All Japan?

I don't know where he stood with them at the time of his death. I just noticed no one has thrown out any scenario where he goes back to All Japan.

Was he not welcome there, or is the though just that the style had changed so much at that point, he wouldn't be a good fit?

Even if he didn't burn that bridge (they usually brought in a decent amount of foreigners every tour), he would probably have to accept a lesser spot in that rotation.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

20 minutes ago, Log said:

Had Brody burned his bridge with All Japan?

I don't know where he stood with them at the time of his death. I just noticed no one has thrown out any scenario where he goes back to All Japan.

Was he not welcome there, or is the though just that the style had changed so much at that point, he wouldn't be a good fit?

He was between All Japan tours when he died; he was International champion during his final tour and lost the belt to Jumbo Tsuruta a few days before the tour ended. There was actually an attempt to form the Triple Crown while he was International champion during that tour, but his match with Genichiro Tenryu went to a double countout. He had just jumped back from New Japan a couple of years before, and his tours were pretty limited, I presume to preserve his drawing power (which was starting to wane) and to keep him in check, but he seemed pretty amenable to doing business based on results and how he was booked.

All Japan also held a Bruiser Brody memorial show a few weeks after his death and flew over his wife and son.

[Infinit]

Onita drew pretty well against The Sheik, who was in his 60s, in 91/92 FMW so it's not a stretch to think that Brody wouldn't have done better.

[elizium]

According the the Sheik book, those were some of the best paydays of his career (maybe the best?) and helped get him out of debt. I'm sure Brody would have jumped at those if offered.

[Infinit]

Perfect time to post one of the most epic matches I ever read about in PWI as a kid:

Onita and Goto vs Sheik and Sabu in early 1992 in a poorly thought out fire match that devolved into chaos. Wild stuff.

[Elsalvajeloco]

You gotta imagine that if Sharon Sidello and Ole during the mini movie era of WCW probably would have saw this and tried to recreate this with Sid/Vader and Sting/Davey Boy. Based on WCW's execution, they would almost accidentally incinerated all four men even worse than what ended up happening to the Sheik.

[Curt McGirt]

2 hours ago, elizium said:

According the the Sheik book, those were some of the best paydays of his career (maybe the best?) and helped get him out of debt. I'm sure Brody would have jumped at those if offered.

 

2 hours ago, Infinit said:

Perfect time to post one of the most epic matches I ever read about in PWI as a kid:

Would you trade getting out of debt for burns on 30% or so of your body? Suppose it depends on the level of debt...

[Cobra Commander]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

which brings us to Brody potentially working for Joel Goodhart, Herb Abrams and then Tod/Paul. 

is this in the timeline where Cactus Jack and Bruiser Brody are working the Nasty Boys in 1994 WCW before Brody leaves and Kevin Sullivan replaces him?

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

is this in the timeline where Cactus Jack and Bruiser Brody are working the Nasty Boys in 1994 WCW before Brody leaves and Kevin Sullivan replaces him?

No, it's the timeline where a sad, broken down Bruiser Brody is working a lumberjack match (with volunteer lumberjacks picked by the wrestlers on short notice) against Cactus Jack in front of 90 people at the newly built MGM Grand Garden Arena.

[Cobra Commander]

11 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

No, it's the timeline where a sad, broken down Bruiser Brody is working a lumberjack match (with volunteer lumberjacks picked by the wrestlers on short notice) against Cactus Jack in front of 90 people at the newly built MGM Grand Garden Arena.

how could Brody be sad when he would have access to all the cocaine that Herb Abrams couldn't snort

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Cobra Commander said:

how could Brody be sad when he would have access to all the cocaine that Herb Abrams couldn't snort

"Couldn't" sounds like a challenge. Herb was to cocaine like Kobayashi was to Nathan's hot dogs. He couldn't be stopped.

[Mister TV]

5 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

There is a good chance Brody, not really loving the insane WWF schedule, has had enough and just no shows an event at like the Mid Hudson Civic Center never to be heard of in WWF again. Just resurfaces in Puerto Rico and probably Global in the twilight of his career and pop ups in fan conventions and Cauliflower Alley every now and again. 

But no showing a Mid-Hudson Civic Center show would cost him big paydays at MSG, Spectrum, Maple Leaf Gardens and so on. It’s easy to walk out on dying territories for $2,500, not so much for the biggest promotion in the world and $25,000 paydays. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

22 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

But no showing a Mid-Hudson Civic Center show would cost him big paydays at MSG, Spectrum, Maple Leaf Gardens and so on. It’s easy to walk out on dying territories for $2,500, not so much for the biggest promotion in the world and $25,000 paydays. 

That's the interesting Catch 22 that all these scenarios posed that everyone including myself have put forward. Even when we blindly assume Frank Goodish is willing to be a good businessman, there is the reality that we're still dealing the evidence from all the sides and parties involved that this probably wouldn't go very smoothly. A lot of the turnover I brought up that happened during the Hulkamania era is cause people just got tired of it. And that's when the business was red hot. Now add in a guy who is notoriously not willing to deal with the bullshit that comes with it. Not the greatest recipe for success.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

34 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

But no showing a Mid-Hudson Civic Center show would cost him big paydays at MSG, Spectrum, Maple Leaf Gardens and so on. It’s easy to walk out on dying territories for $2,500, not so much for the biggest promotion in the world and $25,000 paydays. 

More realistically he walks out because people didn't get paid for WrestleMania and PPVs back then for weeks, if not months, and there would be a lot of people who felt they got shorted on their pay for PPVs. Imagine Brody working WrestleMania 6 in April, not getting his check until July, it's half of what he's expecting... he's probably gone.