MOON KNIGHT (SPOILER TALK)

[Eivion]

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Is this all Marvel or just modern MCU era? 

 

2 hours ago, Casey said:

I’d say Legion is one of the best shows Marvel has done, period. It ranks up there with Daredevil and Jessica Jones for me, personally.

I was talking all of Marvel when I said that. Legion, DD, & Loki are probably my top 3 at the moment. If I include animation stuff like 90s Spider-Man and Spectacular rank pretty high as well. Probably Avengers Assemble too.

Edited May 5, 2022 by Eivion

[The Natural]

6 hours ago, Eivion said:

I enjoyed the finale and season even if the pacing was off at times and Steven was annoying as fuck. I'll be there for a second season if they do one.

I mean even with its issues Legion is probably a top five out of all of the shows Marvel has done, possibly including animation. 

 

3 hours ago, Eivion said:

 

I was talking all of Marvel when I said that. Legion, DD, & Loki are probably my top 3 at the moment. If I include animation stuff like 90s Spider-Man and Spectacular rank pretty high as well. Probably Avengers Assemble too.

My top five:

5. Loki.

4. Agent Carter.

3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

2. Daredevil.

1. The Spectacular Spider-Man.

Never seen Legion. Loki just pipped WandaVision to 5th place.

[Eivion]

9 minutes ago, The Natural said:

3. Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

EMH is actually what I meant, not Assemble when I was talking Avengers.  That first season was fantastic.

[Matt D]

Wolverine and the X-Men has to be up there too. That was a great season. Evolution is really good for S2 on but S1 is pretty rough and studio notes-y (later seasons are too with X-23 and what not, but it still generally worked out).

I liked Legion a lot but I don't think they necessarily nailed the landing on the shift from him as a protagonist to an antagonist. But it was certainly as ambitious as anything they've done.

[Eivion]

9 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Wolverine and the X-Men has to be up there too. That was a great season. Evolution is really good for S2 on but S1 is pretty rough and studio notes-y (later seasons are too with X-23 and what not, but it still generally worked out).

I liked Legion a lot but I don't think they necessarily nailed the landing on the shift from him as a protagonist to an antagonist. But it was certainly as ambitious as anything they've done.

Was thinking of Wolverine and the X-men as well. That was so good. Was never super fond of Evolution though it was definitely solid after S1.

With Legion I always thought they fucked up that specific shift as the way they did it was poorly thought out and seemed to be done more to turn him as quickly and hard as they could because he was maybe a bit to easy to empathize with and root for without it.

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

EMH is actually what I meant, not Assemble when I was talking Avengers.  That first season was fantastic.

I thought so but didn't want to jump the gun. Love Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

[The Natural]

In the UK, The Avengers (2012) went by Avengers Assemble but on Disney± it's The Avengers. So there's two Avengers Assemble, the film and animated series. Batman Beyond goes by Batman of the Future away from the United States.

[odessasteps]

 

[Casey]

I’m an X-Men Animated Series fan, like a huge one, so that’s in my top five for sure. I’m currently reading that coffee table “art and making of” book about the show right now. A lot of it probably has to do with nostalgia, but I’ve been rewatching it (slowly) over the last few months and it holds up semi-well.

[Kuetsar]

When your main character has Xpac heat, that's a bad sign.

[Eivion]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

I’m an X-Men Animated Series fan, like a huge one, so that’s in my top five for sure. I’m currently reading that coffee table “art and making of” book about the show right now. A lot of it probably has to do with nostalgia, but I’ve been rewatching it (slowly) over the last few months and it holds up semi-well.

90s X-Men and Spider-Man was my introduction to Marvel beyond the Hulk. Both were hampered somewhat by censorship but still managed some good stuff, especially Spider-Man. X-Men might not be in my top 5 or so on quality, but it is up there in terms of favoritism. 

[odessasteps]

Two words

MS LION 

[Matt D]

X-Men:TAS has plenty of nostalgia but none of the character development or overarching plotting that you get in the 2000s cartoons before they dumbed everything down post-Disney sale. I'd be really surprised if anyone who didn't grow up with TAS would rank it over W&XM or Evolution season 2 on.

[odessasteps]

Who needs character development from a Saturday morning cartoon?

[Eivion]

24 minutes ago, Matt D said:

X-Men:TAS has plenty of nostalgia but none of the character development or overarching plotting that you get in the 2000s cartoons before they dumbed everything down post-Disney sale. I'd be really surprised if anyone who didn't grow up with TAS would rank it over W&XM or Evolution season 2 on.

This feels like a weird claim considering everything done with Morph, Logan's past, or the Phoenix Saga/Dark Phoenix Saga.

[Matt D]

10 minutes ago, Eivion said:

This feels like a weird claim considering everything done with Morph, Logan's past, or the Phoenix Saga/Dark Phoenix Saga.

The Morph stuff came and went. The Phoenix Saga/Dark Phoenix saga were big 5 parters, not anything over the span of the run. There's no progression from beginning to end like the other shows. It's much more like a GI Joe season premiere five-parter than the serialized storytelling we'd get in the 00s.

[Casey]

I might check out the Evolution show actually, seeing as how it’s multiple seasons.

But I won’t hear any slander about the animated series from the 90s. I’m insanely hyped for X-Men ‘97 so hushhhhhhh.

[Eivion]

35 minutes ago, Matt D said:

The Morph stuff came and went. The Phoenix Saga/Dark Phoenix saga were big 5 parters, not anything over the span of the run. There's no progression from beginning to end like the other shows. It's much more like a GI Joe season premiere five-parter than the serialized storytelling we'd get in the 00s.

So you're saying Phoenix Saga didn't build into Dark Phoenix Saga? Was there also nothing going on with Shadow King, Xavier, and Storm? Or how about everything with Bishop, Cable, & Apocalypse? I get that didn't have the same level of build and progression we got with later shows, but there is very much connective tissue in much of the series to a point where denying just come across as ridiculous. Its pretty far away from GI Joe even if it doesn't go as far as other shows later did.

[TheVileOne]

21 minutes ago, Eivion said:

So you're saying Phoenix Saga didn't build into Dark Phoenix Saga? Was there also nothing going on with Shadow King, Xavier, and Storm? Or how about everything with Bishop, Cable, & Apocalypse? I get that didn't have the same level of build and progression we got with later shows, but there is very much connective tissue in much of the series to a point where denying just come across as ridiculous. Its pretty far away from GI Joe even if it doesn't go as far as other shows later did.

They definitely built it up. Xavier saw visions of Lilandra and the Shi'ar in the Lady Deathstrike episode. The crashed alien ship was a prelude to Phoenix Saga. 

MattD should go back and re-watch the show. There's definitely progression and things that happen in-between the major multi-part events.

[John from Cincinnati]

I'm surprised people think this show is so much worse than the previous ones. I wonder how much of that is down to it having no connection to the previous movies/shows. Coming in cold with something this shaky can be a little dicier than coming at us with a Renner who's not our favourite but we've gotten used to him and he's been in things we like before. Not being so blown away by anything else on the TV side, this wasn't the big letdown for me that it was for others.

Marvel fatigue at an all-time high for me though. Think I'll be dipping out of the shows for a while and maybe I'll catch them down the line. A handful of movies a year is easier to stomach than dealing with any quality control issues on the TV side stemming from the need to stretch these things out X number of weeks and keep pumping out content.

[TheVileOne]

46 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'm surprised people think this show is so much worse than the previous ones. I wonder how much of that is down to it having no connection to the previous movies/shows. Coming in cold with something this shaky can be a little dicier than coming at us with a Renner who's not our favourite but we've gotten used to him and he's been in things we like before. Not being so blown away by anything else on the TV side, this wasn't the big letdown for me that it was for others.

Marvel fatigue at an all-time high for me though. Think I'll be dipping out of the shows for a while and maybe I'll catch them down the line. A handful of movies a year is easier to stomach than dealing with any quality control issues on the TV side stemming from the need to stretch these things out X number of weeks and keep pumping out content.

I'm completely fine with the show having virtually no connection to anything else in the MCU at all. That's in no way related to my disappointment. 

[Matt D]

43 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

They definitely built it up. Xavier saw visions of Lilandra and the Shi'ar in the Lady Deathstrike episode. The crashed alien ship was a prelude to Phoenix Saga. 

MattD should go back and re-watch the show. There's definitely progression and things that happen in-between the major multi-part events.

I will concede the point that I may not have watched this show since 1997 or whatever and the thing I remember most is seeing Night of the Sentinels Part 1 300 times since it's all they had ready for six months and then later liking little cameos of characters on tiny screens, but I'm still guessing that there's nothing half as interesting as Avalanche's character arc in Evolution in this thing. But I'm also not going to rewatch it either. What's more important is that the Cable action figure had limited arm movement but could do a great lariat to other action figures and had judo chop action.

 

[Craig H]

The only Moon Knight I ever read regularly was the Marvel Knights run and so my disconnection with the character or this series coming in cold to the rest of the MCU didn't have any effect on my enjoyment of it or lack thereof. My disdain for the series pretty much comes down to just how awful of a character Steven was, that show itself was really boring, I know y'all were praising Ethan Hawke but I thought he was pretty lame, all of these all knowing Egyptian gods know what Khonshu is up to but they have no idea what Harrow is up to, and just a bunch of other nonsense. They had some of the coolest actors in Hollywood for this thing and they saddled them all with the most boring, milquetoast crap that almost tried to avoid how cool any of these people are. The only one who got to be mildly entertaining was F. Murray Abraham and most of the time he just sounded like Venom to me.

[TheVileOne]

10 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I will concede the point that I may not have watched this show since 1997 or whatever and the thing I remember most is seeing Night of the Sentinels Part 1 300 times since it's all they had ready for six months and then later liking little cameos of characters on tiny screens, but I'm still guessing that there's nothing half as interesting as Avalanche's character arc in Evolution in this thing. But I'm also not going to rewatch it either. What's more important is that the Cable action figure had limited arm movement but could do a great lariat to other action figures and had judo chop action.

 

Hey I like Evolution as well, and I think that show is underrated. I think over time, Evolution evolved beyond being an X-Men in high school show and told some good long-term stories. 

But I'd say X-Men and Spider-Man in the 1990s are both shows that were really acclaimed for their long-term story arcs over multiple episodes and multiple seasons that didn't really start happening until the 1990s. 

[John from Cincinnati]

36 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I'm completely fine with the show having virtually no connection to anything else in the MCU at all. That's in no way related to my disappointment. 

Oh for sure, it's a mess and I'm not saying it's completely explanatory. I just find it interesting that this is the one that's gotten the most pushback in some parts. 

Of course Ms Marvel stands a chance to bounce back hard and torpedo my theory. Lot of people with investment in the character.