Jiji Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 And now for something completely unrelated. I cannot stop laughing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I'm fucking dying, oh my god Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said: I DVR stuff so this will help my fast forward skills. Highly doubt we see any of that footage. They'll probably do that "in the shadows" recreation instead. BUT, it looks like we will see that guy get stabbed, so you never know. 30 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: That's sort of the issue though. If the filter is just asking where you train and not "Have any of you seen this kid work or even seen him ever before in your life", any jackass can just jump in the ring. Instead of Kowalski, he could have said Larry Sharpe or Johnny Rodz. Do those two need to be there to confirm this kid isn't telling the truth? I would hope not. It was ECW, they wanted a warm body and there was one. He shouldn't have managed to make his way backstage anyway, but he did, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: Highly doubt we see any of that footage. They'll probably do that "in the shadows" recreation instead. BUT, it looks like we will see that guy get stabbed, so you never know. It was ECW, they wanted a warm body and there was one. He shouldn't have managed to make his way backstage anyway, but he did, so... Just want to point out that I wasn't doing some sort of defense of the company. What is interesting is that it's an example of a disastrous situation that happened where there were numerous freak incidents that happened and if any of them had not happened the disaster wouldn't have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: Highly doubt we see any of that footage. They'll probably do that "in the shadows" recreation instead. BUT, it looks like we will see that guy get stabbed, so you never know. It was ECW, they wanted a warm body and there was one. He shouldn't have managed to make his way backstage anyway, but he did, so... When they started showing the crime scene photos last night, I was like "OH NO". Fortunately, they didn't go that far. Compare that to the OJ doc (that I believe they're currently showing on ESPN as I type this) where you get the whole kit and caboodle. You cannot unsee that at all. They did show the Eddie Guerrero injury the night after the Radicalz debut, which I had never seen before. I didn't have UPN because it was only in like three cities in Mississippi (Jackson, Hattiesburg, and maybe Biloxi), and I wasn't residing in any of those cities. I use to watch Livewire all the time to catch up where IIRC they explained Eddie got hurt but they showed the frog splash from the debut and not from the SD taping the next night where he got hurt. So it was kinda like the Mandela Effect where for years I thought it happened on Smackdown but the came from when the Radicalz were doing another run-in on a match in street clothes. It wasn't until one of the recent Retro Raw/Nitro reviews that Bryan & Vinny do when I realized, "No, this happened in a match." It makes me wonder if Eddie didn't get so jacked up, would he have gotten hurt like that? I know there was talk he had an injured elbow going into that, but he had done the frog splash hundreds of times before. He would have times where he would do the signature pump motion with his arms (vs. the Art Barr/D-Lo version of the frog splash) probably little harder than he should have before he would go to the mat which had to suck upon impact. I don't think that would completely dislocate your elbow like that though. Sidenote: If you watch the actual match where it happened, after three replays of said injury and Eddie laying in the ring in clear distress, they go right into an XFL spot. Hilarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 9 minutes ago, sabremike said: Just want to point out that I wasn't doing some sort of defense of the company. What is interesting is that it's an example of a disastrous situation that happened where there were numerous freak incidents that happened and if any of them had not happened the disaster wouldn't have happened. No, you're fine. I think we're saying it's outright silly that it had to get to that point with someone like Eric Kulas. I know this was well before everyone had the internet, but that's when the eye test would be absolutely fine to use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Yeah I was WORRIED when they started showing those photos. I was so waiting for the hammer to fall and it thankfully didn't. I hope on the OJ doc they're at least blurring out faces like in mafia docs and stuff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: Yeah I was WORRIED when they started showing those photos. I was so waiting for the hammer to fall and it thankfully didn't. I hope on the OJ doc they're at least blurring out faces like in mafia docs and stuff. They don't show faces I remember this correctly, but they show the wounds from the chin down. I wasn't ready for that. I can watch docs about La Cosa Nostra from the 1920s/1930s. I've seen Albert Anastasia dead in a barbershop like a gazillion times before. Doesn't bother me. However, there was a doc with more recent (as in the 70s/80s) stuff with them showing Angelo Bruno from the front the car with his mouth agape after a good ole shotgun blast to the back of the head. That image will be burned into your mind. Apparently, the news was fucking gritty back then. Edited March 26, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Yeah, that's in every Philly mafia doc. Gruesome. And to wrap around to our original conversation, go figure... it's the Philly news. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 53 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: They don't show faces I remember this correctly, but they show the wounds from the chin down. I wasn't ready for that. I can watch docs about La Cosa Nostra from the 1920s/1930s. I've seen Albert Anastasia dead in a barbershop like a gazillion times before. Doesn't bother me. However, there was a doc with more recent (as in the 70s/80s) stuff with them showing Angelo Bruno from the front the car with his mouth agape after a good ole shotgun blast to the back of the head. That image will be burned into your mind. Apparently, the news was fucking gritty back then. Two words: Budd Dwyer. There was actually a documentary on him that came out a few years back called "An Innocent Man" that shows he was in fact innocent of what he was accused of but that the stress of the situation caused him to take his own life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, sabremike said: Two words: Budd Dwyer. There was actually a documentary on him that came out a few years back called "An Innocent Man" that shows he was in fact innocent of what he was accused of but that the stress of the situation caused him to take his own life. "An Innocent Man" is a really good doc. Of course, I was introduced to Budd Dwyer and his story through Traces of Death when I was about 16, and learned "Hey Man, Nice Shot" is about Dwyer. Dwyer made a brilliant move by killing himself while still in office rather than resigning, like everybody thought he was going to, so his family got his benefits because he died in office. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) Heh. My old band used this photo of Budd for our demo cover: That doc is on Amazon Prime btw, still have to watch it. EDIT: That was also the band where I transcribed Stan Hansen's "Sunrise" theme to guitar for our intro music. Edited March 26, 2020 by Curt McGirt 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I was waiting for someone to bring up Budd. I remember when it happened. I think they showed it live on channel 8 in lancaster on the noon news. (That's how I remember it anyway) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, odessasteps said: I was waiting for someone to bring up Budd. I remember when it happened. I think they showed it live on channel 8 in lancaster on the noon news. (That's how I remember it anyway) I didn't see it when it happened, but I saw it in Bowling for Columbine which was plenty for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 7 minutes ago, odessasteps said: I was waiting for someone to bring up Budd. I remember when it happened. I think they showed it live on channel 8 in lancaster on the noon news. (That's how I remember it anyway) Didn't they actually interrupt children's cartoons or am I confusing that with a police standoff that concluded with a guy blowing his head off with a shotgun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, sabremike said: Didn't they actually interrupt children's cartoons or am I confusing that with a police standoff that concluded with a guy blowing his head off with a shotgun? From wikipedia: Many television stations throughout Pennsylvania broadcast taped footage of Dwyer's suicide to a midday audience. Philadelphia station WPVI (Channel 6) showed Dwyer pulling the trigger and falling backwards, but did not show the bullet path.Over the next several hours, news editors had to decide how much of the graphic footage to air. Many chose not to air the final moments of the suicide and WPVI also chose not to show the gunshot a second time. Many stations, including WCAU and Pennsylvania's Group W stations KYW and KDKA, froze the action just before the gunshot. However, the latter two allowed the audio of the shooting to continue under the frozen image. Group W's news cameraman William L. "Bill" Martin and reporter David Sollenberger had a camera set up at the conference. They chose to air the audio with a freeze-frame of the gun in Dwyer's mouth. Only a handful aired the unedited press conference. WPVI in Philadelphia re-broadcast the suicide footage in full on their 5 p.m. and 6 p.m. Action News broadcast without warning the viewers. That station's broadcast is a source for copies circulating on the Internet. WPXI in Pittsburgh is reported by the Associated Press to have broadcast the footage uncensored on an early newscast. In explaining the decision to air, WPXI operations manager By Williams said, "It's an important event [about] an important man." Williams avoided airing the footage in the evening newscasts, explaining, "Everyone knows by then that he did it. There are children out of school." However, in central Pennsylvania, many children were home from school during the day of Dwyer's suicide due to a snowstorm.Harrisburg TV station WHTM-TV opted to broadcast uncut video of the suicide twice that day, defending the decision (despite hundreds of viewer complaints afterward) due to the important nature of the story. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: That's sort of the issue though. If the filter is just asking where you train and not "Have any of you seen this kid work or even seen him ever before in your life", any jackass can just jump in the ring. Instead of Kowalski, he could have said Larry Sharpe or Johnny Rodz. Do those two need to be there to confirm this kid isn't telling the truth? I would hope not. The problem there is that even with what @sabremike said, even what Meanie said wasn't the full story of Kulas. It wasn't just "Kulas claimed he was trained by Kowalski, who happened to not be there", but rather: Kulas WAS trained by Kowalski. Kulas was actively working on the independent scene in the southern New England area- albeit solely in comedy matches where he would fight minis (indeed, a mini wrestler Heyman had worked with and trusted who had also wrestled Kulas was the one who vouched for him and said "yeah, he's telling the truth".) More and more of the Mass Transit story was less the ECW narrative of "this kid was some shmoe who lied about being a wrestler in order to get into ECW and got maimed for it", and the real story would be closer to, say, the Mike Levy incident in IWA-MS: A small-time borderline wrestler who decided to shoot his shot thinking they were getting their big break and had it blow up in their face. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said: The problem there is that even with what @sabremike said, even what Meanie said wasn't the full story of Kulas. It wasn't just "Kulas claimed he was trained by Kowalski, who happened to not be there", but rather: Kulas WAS trained by Kowalski. Kulas was actively working on the independent scene in the southern New England area- albeit solely in comedy matches where he would fight minis (indeed, a mini wrestler Heyman had worked with and trusted who had also wrestled Kulas was the one who vouched for him and said "yeah, he's telling the truth".) More and more of the Mass Transit story was less the ECW narrative of "this kid was some shmoe who lied about being a wrestler in order to get into ECW and got maimed for it", and the real story would be closer to, say, the Mike Levy incident in IWA-MS: A small-time borderline wrestler who decided to shoot his shot thinking they were getting their big break and had it blow up in their face. Ok, that makes much more sense. And would that mini wrestler be the one they showed in the previews (if you saw them) for the show? That made it seem like he was extremely pissed off at New Jack for something. Edited March 26, 2020 by Elsalvajeloco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Not sure, I haven't seen the previews yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said: the Mike Levy incident in IWA-MS I vaguely remember this, what happened? Ian beat the shit out of some kid right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 1 minute ago, SorceressKnight said: Not sure, I haven't seen the previews yet. If that is indeed the next episode, the trailer for it should be up soon enough. Briefly, they show (who I am assuming is but don't know yet) a black mini wrestler who seemed to be very pissed. Granted it's New Jack and there are a variety of things that could have caused this, but I was confused at his connection to this subject. From the shoot interviews I've seen with ECW wrestlers (including Jack himself), everyone kinda goes by the story of it just being some kid and just the aftermath that night. If this is the same guy you're talking about, that would be logical and explain why he would be in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said: The problem there is that even with what @sabremike said, even what Meanie said wasn't the full story of Kulas. It wasn't just "Kulas claimed he was trained by Kowalski, who happened to not be there", but rather: Kulas WAS trained by Kowalski. Kulas was actively working on the independent scene in the southern New England area- albeit solely in comedy matches where he would fight minis (indeed, a mini wrestler Heyman had worked with and trusted who had also wrestled Kulas was the one who vouched for him and said "yeah, he's telling the truth".) More and more of the Mass Transit story was less the ECW narrative of "this kid was some shmoe who lied about being a wrestler in order to get into ECW and got maimed for it", and the real story would be closer to, say, the Mike Levy incident in IWA-MS: A small-time borderline wrestler who decided to shoot his shot thinking they were getting their big break and had it blow up in their face. Like the fact that the kid lied about (at the least) his age (FWIW I looked up the wiki entry on this and it says he was not trained by Kowalski. The footnotes cite the WWE ECW book (not entirely credible) and the Shaun Assel book (more credible) as a source) made what happened in any way defensible? I mean does anyone think it was an accident D-Von ended up brawling backstage and out of the match. Only thing I will say is that I think while they wanted to rough the kid up (still really shitty) they didn't expect New Jack to go Freddy Kreuger on the kid. The reason Jack and the company got off in court was that the kid (and whomever was advising him) were really dumb and pointlessly lied so bad when there was no need to and the facts spoke for themselves that it killed their credibility. And here's the really messed up thing: this may not even crack the top 5 most messed up things Jack has done in a match (at least 4 that could be classified as attempted homicide). Edited March 26, 2020 by sabremike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Also as a PSA: Pretty much every single great pre 2005 match (and most shows) besides WWE or WCW can be found on YouTube. So if you are bored just go hunt stuff down (Watching the legendary Big Egg Wrestling Universe AJW show from 1994). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 43 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: I vaguely remember this, what happened? Ian beat the shit out of some kid right? Basically from what it was: Mike Levy was some kid claiming to be a wrestler making cringey Youtube promos. Ian booked the kid for a women's deathmatch tournament- he apparently made a stiff shot on Mickie Knuckles, then Ian and a bunch of people ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him. (Considering this was also a "the guy's being booked in a women's deathmatch tournament before intergender became normal", that should have at least been a red flag that at the very least Levy wasn't being taken seriously and it wouldn't have been the big break he thought it was, if not a red flag that Ian planned this beatdown out all along.) So, whether you take the "Mass Transit was untrained" or "Mass Transit was merely a pretty shitty small-time worker in way over his head" argument, the Levy incident was kind of similar either way. 28 minutes ago, sabremike said: Like the fact that the kid lied about (at the least) his age (FWIW I looked up the wiki entry on this and it says he was not trained by Kowalski. The footnotes cite the WWE ECW book (not entirely credible) and the Shaun Assel book (more credible) as a source) made what happened in any way defensible? I mean does anyone think it was an accident D-Von ended up brawling backstage and out of the match. Only thing I will say is that I think while they wanted to rough the kid up (still really shitty) they didn't expect New Jack to go Freddy Kreuger on the kid. The reason Jack and the company got off in court was that the kid (and whomever was advising him) were really dumb and pointlessly lied so bad when there was no need to and the facts spoke for themselves that it killed their credibility. And here's the really messed up thing: this may not even crack the top 5 most messed up things Jack has done in a match (at least 4 that could be classified as attempted homicide). Well, I'm not saying it's defensible or not. At the very least, we know he lied about his age (and that's a gray area, since you don't have to be 18 to wrestle in Massachusetts). Whether or not he was actually trained by Kowalski is questionable, but it's more likely than you think he was: Killer Kowalski was very well-known for all the big name workers who came from there, but in the New England indie scene it's pretty well known that it was...not particularly special at all. Kowalski's school originally became so well-known in large part because Kowalski was one of the first big-name trainers who's policy was "I'll train anyone who has the money to pay for my school" instead of "You have to be vetted to get trained"...and so, it's completely plausible that anyone from New England who claims to be a wrestler at least took a couple classes there. As far as the defensive stuff, again- it was still weird. They roughed him up (clearly shitty), but most of the case was mixed between "Mass Transit was dumb enough to let New Jack blade him when he'd never bladed in the past", combined with "Kulas's mommy and daddy couldn't stand to see their special little guy bleeding" (which is a viable claim as well: the case used the "Kulas puffed his cheeks out, making it clear Kulas knew how to make the blood flow better and thus, that Kulas knew what he was doing when he took the blade job and it was likely agreed upon" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, SorceressKnight said: Basically from what it was: Mike Levy was some kid claiming to be a wrestler making cringey Youtube promos. Ian booked the kid for a women's deathmatch tournament- he apparently made a stiff shot on Mickie Knuckles, then Ian and a bunch of people ganged up on him and beat the shit out of him. (Considering this was also a "the guy's being booked in a women's deathmatch tournament before intergender became normal", that should have at least been a red flag that at the very least Levy wasn't being taken seriously and it wouldn't have been the big break he thought it was, if not a red flag that Ian planned this beatdown out all along.) So, whether you take the "Mass Transit was untrained" or "Mass Transit was merely a pretty shitty small-time worker in way over his head" argument, the Levy incident was kind of similar either way. Well, I'm not saying it's defensible or not. At the very least, we know he lied about his age (and that's a gray area, since you don't have to be 18 to wrestle in Massachusetts). Whether or not he was actually trained by Kowalski is questionable, but it's more likely than you think he was: Killer Kowalski was very well-known for all the big name workers who came from there, but in the New England indie scene it's pretty well known that it was...not particularly special at all. Kowalski's school originally became so well-known in large part because Kowalski was one of the first big-name trainers who's policy was "I'll train anyone who has the money to pay for my school" instead of "You have to be vetted to get trained"...and so, it's completely plausible that anyone from New England who claims to be a wrestler at least took a couple classes there. As far as the defensive stuff, again- it was still weird. They roughed him up (clearly shitty), but most of the case was mixed between "Mass Transit was dumb enough to let New Jack blade him when he'd never bladed in the past", combined with "Kulas's mommy and daddy couldn't stand to see their special little guy bleeding" (which is a viable claim as well: the case used the "Kulas puffed his cheeks out, making it clear Kulas knew how to make the blood flow better and thus, that Kulas knew what he was doing when he took the blade job and it was likely agreed upon" I may be completely wrong but I swear that I remember hearing that there was a picture or video of the kid having clearly bladed in a prior match (which if true makes him asking Jack to do it even more bizarre and crazy). Also: I sort of know about the incident but wasn't Levy also (I don't know how to put this) a special needs person which makes it even more sick? Edited March 26, 2020 by sabremike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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