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Super ShowDown III - 2/27/2020


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I watched because i happened to be not working while it was on.   The no vip crowd was animated and kinda awesome if a little quiet (open air stadium not withstanding). Goldberg's entrance tool for fucking ever though. 

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Just now, Elsalvajeloco said:

How much is that doing it on Spike Dudley and women that were 100 pounds in ECW so they looked like ragdolls when he did it?

But I would argue Goldberg had spears that looked like shit, but most of that was on people who didn't know how to take it. Same can be said for the stunner. When someone didn't know how to take it, it was fucking hilarious.

It still looked good outside of ECW.

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15 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

Weren't we outraged and boycotting the Saudi shows?

I've actually skipped all of them but the first. I just read results on wiki or elsewhere.

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6 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It still looked good outside of ECW.

I'm watching a Gore compilation. He is bit more stiffer with it in the ECW, but from the looks of it, it depends on the person taking it throughout. Jeff Hardy made it look like a million bucks.

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1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

Speaking of things that aged spectacularly well, Goldberg in WCW is absolutely amazing to watch now. He was sloppy, but he was so explosive, so charismatic, so God damn impossibly strong, and so fucking over that even in early 2001, he was the best thing in wrestling.

Even I can admit Goldberg had something special back in the day, but back in the day was over 20 years ago now. Like he could actually get up Big Show in a Jackhammer convincingly. Now he can't even do one on Bray Wyatt. 

I mean even Ultimate Warrior in his prime. That's why I thought that DVD crapping on him was stupid. Warrior's promos were stupid and they were weird, but they fit his weird kind of character. And plenty of other guys had similar weird characters and coked up promos at the time, even Macho Man. As for Warrior's style, it's not like the top guys at the time in WWF were known for being technical in-ring generals. A lot of guys worked a similar style or a dumbed down WWF style even the guys who probably could work a five star technical mat classic.

But father time does no jobs.

Edited by TheVileOne
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4 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Even I can admit Goldberg had something special back in the day, but back in the day was over 20 years ago now. Like he could actually get up Big Show in a Jackhammer convincingly. Now he can't even do one on Bray Wyatt. 

I mean so did Ultimate Warrior in his prime. That's why I thought that DVD crapping on him was stupid. Warrior's promos were stupid and they were weird, but they fit his weird kind of character. And plenty of other guys had similar weird characters and coked up promos at the time, even Macho Man. As for Warrior's style, it's not like the top guys at the time in WWF were known for being technical in-ring generals. A lot of guys worked a similar style or a dumbed down WWF style even the guys who probably could work a five star technical mat classic.

But father time does no jobs.

The difference between Randy and Warrior is Randy for as much energy as he was bringing, he use to hit those time cues exact and make the promos make sense. Go back and watch the Macho King stuff with Sherri. He would hit the 90 second mark exactly. It's amazing. They use to let Warrior rumble on and on to the point where I think by 92, his character was starting to play out. If he didn't get fired, his heat would have fucking gone to smithereens by the time Raw was one or two years in. He wouldn't have made it in a more smart era. That long absence helped him in 96 until he inevitably fucked that up. However, in the ring, McMahon did an amazing job of hiding him being a not good worker. If you look at the post talent raid WWF after they took everyone from everywhere, that mid card was fucking stout in every year until 92 or 93 when it just went down hard. They could work around Jim and help hide him. Savage could hide him. Once he became WWF champ, how was he not going to sink like an anchor though? You couldn't do extended squashes as main events. Goldberg to his credit and despite being super sloppy and somewhat reckless figured out how to have a competent, sound match here and there without being in there with a super worker to save him. Jim Helwig never figured it out. If thirty year old Jim Helwig was bad and almost 40 year old Jim Helwig was abysmal, I can't imagine him at the age Goldberg is now.

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All the outrage in here is crazy. First, I do think Bray is a solid worker. The Fiend character is cool as hell and I was all in when he debuted at Summer Slam (back when he was just a scary dude that squashed a guy). But then they went way overboard on his presentation. The red light. Him working like a supernatural being instead of a scary badass. It got over worked and lost it's cool factor. All his promos are fun, but his matches are a chore. It's not because of work rate or him not working 5 star matches, it's because the story they tell with him is so one note.

But man The Fiend vs Reigns is just ice cold as a draw. Wrestlemania hasnt even sold out yet. The card needed changes. There's legitimately no draw this year. And when Goldberg's Smackdown interview episode did the best rating in a while, I knew then they were gonna go all in with him again. Reigns vs Goldberg is a much bigger draw. The old dominant badass vs the new dominant badass. They aren't trying to draw us. We're already gonna be watching. They're trying to draw the people not watching. And that match is definitely going to draw more eyeballs.

Full disclosure, if I were booking I'd be going with Goldberg defending again Cena. That's a match that would get some attention. Put Cena over. Let him break the title record and you probably pop a huge post Wrestlemania rating for people checking in to see who he loses the title to, figuring he isnt sticking around.

We're deep into the part timer era. This is just what WWE is now. They lost the ability to create new stars. So the only people that move the numbers are the people that were stars in a previous era. Complaining that part timers are taking spots away from full timers is just a moot point. The full timers aren't drawing (and it's not their fault in my opinion, it's the heavily over scripted sanitized promos & production style since the shift to PG). But I digress. Long story short, this was the better business move. No one in power cares about the nuts and bolts of the matches at Wrestlemania. They just care about the business Wrestlemania does.

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22 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I'm watching a Gore compilation. He is bit more stiffer with it in the ECW, but from the looks of it, it depends on the person taking it throughout. Jeff Hardy made it look like a million bucks.

 Jeff Hardy makes even Edge’s spear looks half-decent. He’s a miracle worker. 

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Who is this company building up for the future? Drew McIntyre and...?

Ricochet earned a title shot and then got no offense in the match.

Montez Ford and Aleister Black spent months barely wrestling (which, it could be argued, has at least kept them fairly protected).

Andrade just got pinned by R-Truth.

Braun Strowman was working midcard comedy matches until he won a title with no build.

Bray Wyatt has resurrected himself from terrible booking twice now and is going to have to do it a third time.

Multiple NXT guys have allegedly asked not to be moved because they want to maintain some sense of importance.

The two heavyweight champions wrestled each other in a WrestleMania match 16 years ago. 

Seriously, who are the top guys supposed to be 3-5 years from now? 

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54 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

How much is that doing it on Spike Dudley and women that were 100 pounds in ECW so they looked like ragdolls when he did it?

But I would argue Goldberg had spears that looked like shit, but most of that was on people who didn't know how to take it. Same can be said for the stunner. When someone didn't know how to take it, it was fucking hilarious.

He did one on the Rock where Dwayne looked like he got murked.

Eta: I was referring to the Gore, but the same goes for the stunner as well.

Edited by nate
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Drew, and the other guys Heyman wants, the big dog Roman, Charlotte etc. Plus whoever NXT makes (if they stay in NXT). And old guys legends part timers. 

Also let's not act like the Fiend's career is finished because he lost the title, he was never gonna have it forever.

Edited by D.Z
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22 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

All the outrage in here is crazy. First, I do think Bray is a solid worker. The Fiend character is cool as hell and I was all in when he debuted at Summer Slam (back when he was just a scary dude that squashed a guy). But then they went way overboard on his presentation. The red light. Him working like a supernatural being instead of a scary badass. It got over worked and lost it's cool factor. All his promos are fun, but his matches are a chore. It's not because of work rate or him not working 5 star matches, it's because the story they tell with him is so one note.

But man The Fiend vs Reigns is just ice cold as a draw. Wrestlemania hasnt even sold out yet. The card needed changes. There's legitimately no draw this year. And when Goldberg's Smackdown interview episode did the best rating in a while, I knew then they were gonna go all in with him again. Reigns vs Goldberg is a much bigger draw. The old dominant badass vs the new dominant badass. They aren't trying to draw us. We're already gonna be watching. They're trying to draw the people not watching. And that match is definitely going to draw more eyeballs.

Full disclosure, if I were booking I'd be going with Goldberg defending again Cena. That's a match that would get some attention. Put Cena over. Let him break the title record and you probably pop a huge post Wrestlemania rating for people checking in to see who he loses the title to, figuring he isnt sticking around.

We're deep into the part timer era. This is just what WWE is now. They lost the ability to create new stars. So the only people that move the numbers are the people that were stars in a previous era. Complaining that part timers are taking spots away from full timers is just a moot point. The full timers aren't drawing (and it's not their fault in my opinion, it's the heavily over scripted sanitized promos & production style since the shift to PG). But I digress. Long story short, this was the better business move. No one in power cares about the nuts and bolts of the matches at Wrestlemania. They just care about the business Wrestlemania does.

If Fiend vs. Reigns is cold as ice, what is Goldberg vs. Reigns? It must be absolute zero.

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1 minute ago, D.Z said:

Drew, and the other guys Heyman wants, the big dog Roman, Charlotte etc. Plus whoever NXT makes (if they stay in NXT). And old guys legends part timers. 

Also let's not act like the Fiend's career is finished because he lost the title, he was never gonna have it forever.

It's not as much losing the title but losing to a 53 year old Goldberg who can't even do an impressive jackhammer anymore.

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18 minutes ago, nate said:

He did one on the Rock where Dwayne looked like he got murked.

Eta: I was referring to the Gore, but the same goes for the stunner as well.

That shopping cart from Backlash 2000 went into business for itself and no sold Rhyno's Gore.

Rhyno-Gore-Shopping-Trolley-Backlash-200

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13 minutes ago, D.Z said:

Drew, and the other guys Heyman wants, the big dog Roman, Charlotte etc. Plus whoever NXT makes (if they stay in NXT). And old guys legends part timers. 

When the question is who is being built for the future, can we really throw Roman and Charlotte in that mix? They're main eventers right now. This is their moment. They're not being built for the future. 

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9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

It's not as much losing the title but losing to a 53 year old Goldberg who can't even do an impressive jackhammer anymore.

Tenryu and Chris Jericho and Vince McMahon and Ric Flair and several others have won big titles past their mid 40's.

The Fiend's power levels means he can only lose to similar power level guys. Unless some new guy cheats to win....


 

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2 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

When the question is who is being built for the future, can we really throw Roman and Charlotte in that mix? They're main eventers right now. This is their moment. They're not being built for the future. 

They got many years left. Whatever.

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4 minutes ago, D.Z said:

Tenryu and Chris Jericho and Vince McMahon and Ric Flair and several others have won big titles past their mid 40's.

The Fiend's power levels means he can only lose to similar power level guys. Unless some new guy cheats to win....


 

Invalid comparisons. Chris Jericho is on TV every week and wrestling on a fairly regular basis, and like I said at 49, he's still a miracle worker. Goldberg would periodically have an impressive or decent match once in a while in the late 90s. 

If this is about power levels, Goldberg's power levels look like garbage. That's one of the worst Jackhammers i've ever seen. And Jericho is capable of jobbing to guys clean and putting them over.

Edited by TheVileOne
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I'll count myself among those not worried about Bray's immediate prospects coming off this loss. He kicked out of how many spears? And he still got a moment to stand tall during the post-match? He's not being thrown into the discard pile any time soon. 

It being a diminished 53 year old who took him down doesn't do much to hurt him. Follow-up is almost always more important than any particular win or loss. He'll be no-selling Attitude Adjustments in no time. 

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9 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I'll count myself among those not worried about Bray's immediate prospects coming off this loss. He kicked out of how many spears? And he still got a moment to stand tall during the post-match? He's not being thrown into the discard pile any time soon. 

It being a diminished 53 year old who took him down doesn't do much to hurt him. Follow-up is almost always more important than any particular win or loss. He'll be no-selling Attitude Adjustments in no time. 

They pissed away almost a year of building up this character being nigh unbeatable for a throwaway  POS match with Goldberg at 53. 

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8 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

They pissed away almost a year of building up this character being nigh unbeatable for a throwaway  POS match with Goldberg at 53. 

Goldberg's still super protected. Bray took how many spears and kicked out? And he got to stand tall after the match? Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. It was a questionable booking. But I doubt it's as damaging as you're making it out to be. 

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1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Goldberg's still super protected. Bray took how many spears and kicked out? And he got to stand tall after the match? Sorry, I'm just not seeing it. It was a questionable booking. But I doubt it's as damaging as you're making it out to be. 

But why is he protected? He shouldn't be. 

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