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AEW - 2019

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3 hours ago, OSJ said:

 there is no such thing as an "unbiased journalist", everyone has biases, the important thing is to try and keep them in check when writing about a subject. Like him or not, Dave gets far closer to the ideal than most. 

I've followed Dave for decades and generally speaking been a fan, but is what you say really true right now?

He never seems to criticize ROH (other than match quality) because Delirious is a source. He never says anything negative about PWG no matter what, can't imagine he will about AEW either with Cody, the Bucks and Jericho being sources. That's three major promotions I would say he isn't unbiased in his reporting. I would absolutely say his NJPW love is a little over the top as well, but not to the same level.

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WCW's locker room leaked like a sieve and he'd call their shit stuff shit.

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1 minute ago, AxB said:

WCW's locker room leaked like a sieve and he'd call their shit stuff shit.

That was 20 years ago.

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There are so many different realities in this thread The Monitor is about to show up.

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Its absurd to say with a straight face that the guy doesn’t  favorite, isn’t biased towards what he likes, and doesn’t troll what he dislikes. 

Have people seen his twitter? FFS. The constant worship of NJPW to the point where he’s trying to convince people that some of their talents are the greatest of all time better than Flair, Austin, etc. 

If you’re discussing this in good faith and not being a troll, you cannot claim that he’s some unbiased source. It’s laughable. 

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17 minutes ago, Norwegian Rudo said:

I've followed Dave for decades and generally speaking been a fan, but is what you say really true right now?

He never seems to criticize ROH (other than match quality) because Delirious is a source. He never says anything negative about PWG no matter what, can't imagine he will about AEW either with Cody, the Bucks and Jericho being sources. That's three major promotions I would say he isn't unbiased in his reporting. I would absolutely say his NJPW love is a little over the top as well, but not to the same level.

Well, leaving aside that I consider Dave somewhat of a friend that I've never met face to face, I'm going to say that he has a tougher row to hoe than even most mainstream journalists. Wrestling is still a very insulated microcosm, you piss off all your sources and suddenly you have no one to talk to. A Washington beat reporter has a much easier job of it, you piss off one source in Congress, you have two dozen people willing to fill that spot. 

I haven't subscribed in years, but I seem to recall him being less than enthused about some PWG shows back in the day and that's before they rolled out the red carpet for him whenever he wanted to attend. Jericho has always been a source and the trade-off is that Dave has been much kinder to some of his silliness than perhaps he ought to have been, but to say that the folks at AEW are likely to remain sources, is pretty speculative at this juncture. Wait till they are running regular TV and have something crash and burn, then we'll see. 

Dave's fanboyism about NJPW is much like mine, we only see what NJPW wants us to see on AXS, we don't have to suffer through painfully long shows with wrestlers that neither of us care about, we see the cream de la cream of the promotion,  of COURSE we're going to like it. If RAW and SDL was condensed to just an hour or two of the very best stuff, we'd like that too.  Do Dave's biases show? Certainly, we've discussed the star ratings ad nauseam here and elsewhere and the bottom line for me is that while I often do not agree with his ratings, I've been reading and corresponding and talking with the dude so long that I have a pretty good understanding of the thought process that led him to those conclusions. Beyond that, it's simply a matter of tastes. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Norwegian Rudo said:

I've followed Dave for decades and generally speaking been a fan, but is what you say really true right now?

He never seems to criticize ROH (other than match quality) because Delirious is a source. He never says anything negative about PWG no matter what, can't imagine he will about AEW either with Cody, the Bucks and Jericho being sources. That's three major promotions I would say he isn't unbiased in his reporting. I would absolutely say his NJPW love is a little over the top as well, but not to the same level.

Those companies also don't have hours upon hours of weekly TV that he responsible for covering. Also, it's not like there are twenty seven different major promotions. If you're biased towards a vast majority of them, that's not really bias at that point. John Morgan, who covers damn near every UFC show on site unlike any reporter in MMA, never says anything bad about UFC. He also doesn't say anything bad about any other MMA promotion. This is even after one guy (Vitor Belfort) wanted to have someone beat him up after John asked a fairly innocent question about Vitor's past in regards to testosterone replacement therapy. He may say something here or there, but that's rare. Yet, very few people talk about him being a UFC shill. The dude is a just a MMA shill in general.

6 minutes ago, Norwegian Rudo said:

That was 20 years ago.

They love Kevin Sullivan. Who is responsible for a lot of the bad stuff when Russo didn't have the book? You think Kevin is like go ahead and shit on me and my ideas because that's the past? People in wrestling tend to have tremendous egos especially these old fogies.

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2 minutes ago, Thibs said:

Its absurd to say with a straight face that the guy doesn’t  favorite, isn’t biased towards what he likes, and doesn’t troll what he dislikes. 

Have people seen his twitter? FFS. The constant worship of NJPW to the point where he’s trying to convince people that some of their talents are the greatest of all time better than Flair, Austin, etc. 

If you’re discussing this in good faith and not being a troll, you cannot claim that he’s some unbiased source. It’s laughable. 

Tanahashi > Flar

Liger > Austin 

There ya go.

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The more I think about the Page/PAC pairing the more I think that match will rule. Both guys can fly and are shockingly strong so I see a lot of deadlift moves being thrown around. Hangman's only downside, which could be AEW's downside as a whole, is he seems to take some cues on pacing from the Young Bucks and guy like him shouldn't be tossing off a shooting star shoulder tackle off the apron in the first 5 minutes of a match (or at all maybe). Also, I personally think he'd look like way more of a star with a hair cut but that's just me. Omega/Jericho is a good first main event due to the name value but Page and PAC are the money, baby. Also also, can't wait for Aja Kong.

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Moving on.

Super impressive that they sold out that quickly again and it should look great on TV. I will readily admit that this product can draw awesome houses once every few months. 

Not sure how well they’re gonna do when they need to fill up houses every week for live TV.

Also, I’m wondering how many of these people are the same ones that went to All In...

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10 minutes ago, Thibs said:

The constant worship of NJPW to the point where he’s trying to convince people that some of their talents are the greatest of all time better than Flair, Austin, etc. 

Yeah, it was his worship that allowed New Japan to sell out Madison Square Garden months in advance without even a match announced. He is the modern day Tex Rickard.

I never thought I would say this but folks, this is a good reason to support Planned Parenthood.

 

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4 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

The more I think about the Page/PAC pairing the more I think that match will rule. Both guys can fly and are shockingly strong so I see a lot of deadlift moves being thrown around. Hangman's only downside, which could be AEW's downside as a whole, is he seems to take some cues on pacing from the Young Bucks and guy like him shouldn't be tossing off a shooting star shoulder tackle off the apron in the first 5 minutes of a match (or at all maybe). Also, I personally think he'd look like way more of a star with a hair cut but that's just me. Omega/Jericho is a good first main event due to the name value but Page and PAC are the money, baby. Also also, can't wait for Aja Kong.

Can't imagine them having less than a **** match now that I think about it. As you said, both guys are freakishly strong for their size (maybe the only guy stronger pound for pound is Tyler Bate, who does stuff that no one his size should be able to do.) 

Omega/Jericho is a super good call for a first main event, Chris Jericho is known outside of the wrestling bubble and despite being nearly fifty, (is he still 49?), he can get eyeballs on the product. Most people in the US have no clue who Kenny Omega is, but a high-profile match with Jericho can change that in a hurry.

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If they do tv weekly, attendances will be lower than 6000 at first. While the big shows sell out.

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4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Yeah, it was his worship that allowed New Japan to sell out Madison Square Garden months in advance without even a match announced. He is the modern day Tex Rickard.

I never thought I would say this but folks, this is a good reason to support Planned Parenthood.

 

Do you mean Planned Parenthood or retroactive abortion? Just sayin...

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How dare people be biased in favour of things they like. You should be unbiased and praise things you consider awful and unwatchable as strongly as you praise things you love.

If the hottest woman you know invites you round to her house for mind-blowing sex, but when you get there she just gives you a bag of dogshit, you shouldn't be disappointed, because that just proves you're biased against dogshit.

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36 minutes ago, matt925 said:

This thread is gonna get closed again for only one reason. 

It only takes one shithead to ruin it for everybody else.

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3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Yeah, it was his worship that allowed New Japan to sell out Madison Square Garden months in advance without even a match announced. He is the modern day Tex Rickard.

I never thought I would say this but folks, this is a good reason to support Planned Parenthood.

 

The fuck does them selling out MSG have to do with it? What, because they sold out MSG that means he’s not in the tank for them?

Nobody is arguing that the reason for their success is his shilling. But he’s a shill, regardless. 

Good straw man tho. 

 

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Thibs needs to go and read some of the late 90s/early 00s editions of the Observer, because Dave was not kind to New Japan at that time. And of course he was critical of TNA. And WCW. And WWE, ECW, NJPW, etc. Because Dave, at the heart of it all, is just a critic, in the same way that a movie reviewer is a critic. People hold his opinion in high regard, and that's why he's a critic. To me, anyway. That's why I've never put much stock into the star rating system or anything, because I can honestly say I've never watched a match that I thought was "perfect", or whatever.

As for him showing favoritism... I mean, yeah. He's a journalist in a profession/sport that's CARNY AS FUCK. Of course he's going to be a carny too.

For all this talk about TNA, they did exactly what Thibs wants AEW to do. Bring in "big names" for the "mainstream" audience so they'll get those "important TV ratings". Sure, okay, I guess they had 2 million viewers at one point - but where did that get them in the long run? Dave's stance has always been that it was okay to do that, but you still have to push the younger stars that they had (at the time - Styles, Sabin, Daniels, Joe, etc). Time and time again, they didn't, and you had people like Sting and Scott Steiner and Booker T years past their prime at the top of the card. And that's why they're on a TV station now that people either don't have, or can hardly find, and why they aren't a viable #2 promotion anymore.

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1 minute ago, OSJ said:

Do you mean Planned Parenthood or retroactive abortion? 

Yes.

 

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Quote

As for him showing favoritism... I mean, yeah. He's a journalist in a profession/sport that's CARNY AS FUCK. Of course he's going to be a carny too

 

Idk why its that hard for people to admit that.

All I said was he shills, which he does, and people lost their mind and started trolling me for stating the obvious. 

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18 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

They love Kevin Sullivan. Who is responsible for a lot of the bad stuff when Russo didn't have the book? You think Kevin is like go ahead and shit on me and my ideas because that's the past? People in wrestling tend to have tremendous egos especially these old fogies.

Haven't got a freaking clue what point you're trying to make here...

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7 minutes ago, D.Z said:

If they do tv weekly, attendances will be lower than 6000 at first. While the big shows sell out.

You think they’ll be able to get 3-5k on a weekly basis?

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1 minute ago, Casey said:

Thibs needs to go and read some of the late 90s/early 00s editions of the Observer, because Dave was not kind to New Japan at that time. And of course he was critical of TNA. And WCW. And WWE, ECW, NJPW, etc. Because Dave, at the heart of it all, is just a critic, in the same way that a movie reviewer is a critic. People hold his opinion in high regard, and that's why he's a critic. To me, anyway. That's why I've never put much stock into the star rating system or anything, because I can honestly say I've never watched a match that I thought was "perfect", or whatever.

As for him showing favoritism... I mean, yeah. He's a journalist in a profession/sport that's CARNY AS FUCK. Of course he's going to be a carny too.

For all this talk about TNA, they did exactly what Thibs wants AEW to do. Bring in "big names" for the "mainstream" audience so they'll get those "important TV ratings". Sure, okay, I guess they had 2 million viewers at one point - but where did that get them in the long run? Dave's stance has always been that it was okay to do that, but you still have to push the younger stars that they had (at the time - Styles, Sabin, Daniels, Joe, etc). Time and time again, they didn't, and you had people like Sting and Scott Steiner and Booker T years past their prime at the top of the card. And that's why they're on a TV station now that people either don't have, or can hardly find, and why they aren't a viable #2 promotion anymore.

Before Omega took off, Dave said that New Japan was not ready for the future in regards to the guys they were building up. They had just lost Nakamura AND AJ. He was right because you can't foresee a guy being more pivotal for a promotion than both the wrestlers he replaced combined. Now, he is on the same kick because Jay White is in that same spot and the lack of starpower at the top has Taichi in a big program. 

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I think people confuse Dave's star ratings and his reporting/opinions. It's possible for a promotion that's in the shitter to have really good matches. He gave TNA a 5 star match at a time when TNA was really, really bad (according to him). And that was years before WWE ever came close to getting one since the mid/late 90s.

And if they ran weekly TV, and got anywhere from 3-6K, that automatically makes them better than any promotion in the US not named WWE. In TNA's hayday, they never go that many people for a TV taping (or even a PPV most of the time, actually).

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1 minute ago, Thibs said:

You think they’ll be able to get 3-5k on a weekly basis?

Depends on how fans accept the show and it's structure. And on how hot the brand is and if it appeals to wrestling fans.

Should use smaller buildings for tv.

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