Ryan Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 19+ deceased and 40+ injured are the last I heard, but take wikipedia updates at face value at your peril. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 36 minutes ago, Robert C said: Everyone accounted for on our side. Whole lot of folks aren’t going to be as lucky as us if these counts are accurate. Glad everyone is okay from your end. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Robert C said: Everyone accounted for on our side. Whole lot of folks aren’t going to be as lucky as us if these counts are accurate. Glad you and yours are okay. I'd like to hope that this will serve to change some laws, but it's Texas, so I know it won't. I don't want to wax too political, but except for hunters and people in extremely high-risk occupations, no one NEEDS a gun. The nonsense about self-protection is just that, nonsense. Even trained professionals have trouble hitting a moving target and handguns are notoriously inaccurate, the idea that a person with little or no training is going to effectively protect themselves with a handgun is ridiculous. If you're close enough to ensure getting off an accurate shot, you're also close enough for the assailant to get to you before you can pull the trigger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 On 7/24/2019 at 10:46 PM, Ace said: I didn't even know Victator was banned because I put him on ignore at least a year ago. Oh, he's back under a new name, but seems a bit more, uh, subdued I guess would be the word I'm looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 36 minutes ago, OSJ said: I don't want to wax too political Then that is where your post should have stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Another shooting in Dayton, Ohio. I really can't process this much more without wanting to hit some people with bricks. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 I'm just sick to my stomach over this. I didn't mention it at the time, but we almost had a shooting incident here in Gallup. A little background is in order; we're infested with gangster wannabes that try to emulate the Crips and the Bloods. Obviously, there's no connection with the real gangs, so for the most part what they do is fight each other at the mall. However, this time things could have been real serious. We have two hospitals about three blocks apart with said three blocks devoted to clinics and parking. Sister-in-law Lynn was at the clinic when it suddenly went on lockdown. She could pretty much see and hear everything that transpired, three Latino kids rolled up in their car, two guys and a girl, all teenagers. The two guys headed in different directions and one could be seen to be carrying a pistol, the other was screaming into his cellphone "I need the rest of my homies here NOW!" The girl opened the trunk and was in process of taking out an AK-47 when a security guard tackled her. The dude with the cell phone was grabbed by another security guard just as the cops rolled up. They found the third guy with a loaded pistol hiding behind a tree and took him into custody without incident. That's all we know, no idea what the overall plan was or why they were seemingly going to attack the clinic. Apparently one of the staff saw them pulling in and was suspicious enough to alert the security guards (who I have a new-found respect for). We also don't know how many others were involved, but apparently the kids were expecting others to join them and the others never showed. Just based on the weapons that they had, it could have been real ugly. The only thing that I can think of is that their goal was to shoot a bunch of people and there are basically two places in Gallup that you can always be assured of having a crowd; the hospitals (which serve a pretty big geographic area) or Wal-Mart. If their reinforcements hadn't developed cold feet it could have been really ugly as the security guards would have been outnumbered and no telling what would have happened when the first police car showed up. For whatever reason the police department kept things really quiet, there was a only a quick mention of a "gang related incident" near the Public Health Hospital and that was it. Pretty scary when you consider the firepower these punks had, a lot of people could have been killed or injured. These wannabes are actually pretty dangerous, they get into smoking meth and then do all sorts of crazy shit. Some months ago in ABQ they cut a dude's head off as part of an initiation and last year two passed-out drunks were beaten to death with cinder blocks, again as part of an initiation. Crazy shit to be happening in a small town. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Ugh, hate to ask for advice, but here I am. What I really need is someone with experience with other people who are suicidal or who have worked a suicide prevention hotline before to PM me. I am not the one who is suicidal, nor is my wife, but it's a family member and their wife is very handwavy about it despite there being a gun in the house and a toddler there too. The wife is also a mental health professional and she should fucking know this shit, but she's very whatever about it. Anyway, not sure what to do because we've never been in this situation before. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Craig H said: Ugh, hate to ask for advice, but here I am. What I really need is someone with experience with other people who are suicidal or who have worked a suicide prevention hotline before to PM me. I am not the one who is suicidal, nor is my wife, but it's a family member and their wife is very handwavy about it despite there being a gun in the house and a toddler there too. The wife is also a mental health professional and she should fucking know this shit, but she's very whatever about it. Anyway, not sure what to do because we've never been in this situation before. I'm certainly no mental health professional as the board knows, but I do have two suicide attempts and two mental health facility stays to my name. First, get that gun out of the house for everyone's safety, especially with a toddler. If the wife doesn't take it seriously, I would call a suicide prevention line or my local police department. I don't know about Illinois law, but in New Jersey, one cannot just sign themselves out from a facility a few hours later. Both times, I spent a week and doctors had to sit down with my family to determine whether they felt I was a threat to myself or anyone else, plus I had to successfully complete an outpatient rehab because the second time was pretty much directly related to my cocaine use. I'm probably not the person you were looking to for answers, but if I can help in any way, I'm happy to. Edited August 4, 2019 by Nice Guy Eddie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Craig H said: Ugh, hate to ask for advice, but here I am. What I really need is someone with experience with other people who are suicidal or who have worked a suicide prevention hotline before to PM me. I am not the one who is suicidal, nor is my wife, but it's a family member and their wife is very handwavy about it despite there being a gun in the house and a toddler there too. The wife is also a mental health professional and she should fucking know this shit, but she's very whatever about it. Anyway, not sure what to do because we've never been in this situation before. Puzzled as to why the wife isn't taking this seriously unless she knows something that we don't. I'm with NGE as far as get the damn gun out of the house, the less ways and means that the person has to harm themself or others the better. Will the person willingly seek help even if it means checking in to a facility? If no, the laws vary from state to state, but is there any possibility of involuntary commitment for observation? Is there any way that you can get law enforcement involved? I keep going back to the wife not taking this seriously, are there problems in the marriage to the extent that she doesn't care what he does? Or, (as is possibly more likely) is this behavior for real or an attention-getting device? Suicide threats should always be taken as real, but maybe this is on-going behavior that the wife is just tired of listening to? My oldest stepson during his teen years would make this threat basically anytime he didn't get his way. We knew damn well that he wasn't going to do anything of the sort so it got to the point where I'd just say "Make sure you do it outside, because you'll piss and shit yourself and we don't want to have to clean up the mess in the house." That would usually get a door slammed and a sulk for a couple of hours and then that would be the end of it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 The whole situation is this that the family member in question has always talked of killing himself, he definitely has issues with alcohol, he's tried to stop drinking in the past and we'd all go out to eat and his wife would still order a drink for herself, which to me seemed crappy. He's tried numerous forms of therapy, including outpatient ECT. We learned a little bit ago from his wife that the gun is locked up and hidden and he doesn't know the code to it. He's talked of killing himself this week. He's the very definition of self-destructive. He's had literally every opportunity you could think of. Med school paid for and he dropped out, culinary school in NYC paid for and he quit that, he was apparently a very good car salesman and he stopped doing that, he's a woodworker and carpenter and he gave up all of that, and now Notre Dame is paying him to pursue his PhD and he's currently a biochemist there, but he wants to quit that too. The common them is that he's just no good at any of this or sucks or whatever, which isn't the truth, at least with what he's currently doing because he was like one of 5 people in the country to win a special grant for their research. I feel for him and don't want him to go through with it because it would heavily impact my wife. It's just that now he's, according to his wife, selfmutilating, 2 weeks ago he took a bunch of pills with alcohol, but only wound up getting sick, and now he's taking again of killing himself. They have a 3 year old together, he has a son in high school, and she has 2 kids and they both consider him their dad. It has all the makings of a tragedy in the waiting. I don't know if we should call the police and if we do that we can pretty much guarantee he'll cut us all out, we don't know what to say to her because she should already know since she's a mental health professional, but it feels like she's doing nothing. Honestly, he needs to be in some kind of inpatient facility, but I don't know if he can be forced into that. It sucks to feel like we're just helpless and just waiting for bad news. I've had a couple friends kill themselves, but those were both out of the blue and I wasn't very close with either. This has been like watching a slow moving train wreck where we can see where this is headed, but we're ultimately helpless. Would it help calling a suicide hotline? And we're still undecided on calling the police. We're also leaving for a trip in a week so we're worried that's when he'll do something when my wife and I are out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 In happier news, I think I figured out my Halloween costume this year. Given how much I grew out my beard, I'm going to go as Gedo. I already own the block print Rainmaker shirt, but I'm thinking that maybe I should get a Switchblade shirt. There's only so many things you can go as when you're bald. I've already done Walter White. I've worn wigs to be Joe Maddon in 2016 and I wore a blonde wig to go as Kristof from Frozen in 2015. If I ever get back in shape I'm shaving my beard to have a goatee so I can go as Stone Cold. I have being an adult Caillou in my back pocket too, but the Gedo costume seems the easiest so I'll just do that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Craig H said: In happier news, I think I figured out my Halloween costume this year. Given how much I grew out my beard, I'm going to go as Gedo. I already own the block print Rainmaker shirt, but I'm thinking that maybe I should get a Switchblade shirt. There's only so many things you can go as when you're bald. I've already done Walter White. I've worn wigs to be Joe Maddon in 2016 and I wore a blonde wig to go as Kristof from Frozen in 2015. If I ever get back in shape I'm shaving my beard to have a goatee so I can go as Stone Cold. I have being an adult Caillou in my back pocket too, but the Gedo costume seems the easiest so I'll just do that. Lex Luthor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 49 minutes ago, OSJ said: Lex Luthor? Don't want to shave the beard fully off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 3 hours ago, Craig H said: The whole situation is this that the family member in question has always talked of killing himself, he definitely has issues with alcohol, he's tried to stop drinking in the past and we'd all go out to eat and his wife would still order a drink for herself, which to me seemed crappy. He's tried numerous forms of therapy, including outpatient ECT. We learned a little bit ago from his wife that the gun is locked up and hidden and he doesn't know the code to it. He's talked of killing himself this week. He's the very definition of self-destructive. He's had literally every opportunity you could think of. Med school paid for and he dropped out, culinary school in NYC paid for and he quit that, he was apparently a very good car salesman and he stopped doing that, he's a woodworker and carpenter and he gave up all of that, and now Notre Dame is paying him to pursue his PhD and he's currently a biochemist there, but he wants to quit that too. The common them is that he's just no good at any of this or sucks or whatever, which isn't the truth, at least with what he's currently doing because he was like one of 5 people in the country to win a special grant for their research. I feel for him and don't want him to go through with it because it would heavily impact my wife. It's just that now he's, according to his wife, selfmutilating, 2 weeks ago he took a bunch of pills with alcohol, but only wound up getting sick, and now he's taking again of killing himself. They have a 3 year old together, he has a son in high school, and she has 2 kids and they both consider him their dad. It has all the makings of a tragedy in the waiting. I don't know if we should call the police and if we do that we can pretty much guarantee he'll cut us all out, we don't know what to say to her because she should already know since she's a mental health professional, but it feels like she's doing nothing. Honestly, he needs to be in some kind of inpatient facility, but I don't know if he can be forced into that. It sucks to feel like we're just helpless and just waiting for bad news. I've had a couple friends kill themselves, but those were both out of the blue and I wasn't very close with either. This has been like watching a slow moving train wreck where we can see where this is headed, but we're ultimately helpless. Would it help calling a suicide hotline? And we're still undecided on calling the police. We're also leaving for a trip in a week so we're worried that's when he'll do something when my wife and I are out of town. Thanks for posting more info! Take none of this as gospel as I'm not a real psychologist nor do I play one on TV, but FWIW, here are a few deductions based on the info that you have provided. Several things jumped out at me, here goes: 1. The wife is seemingly unconcerned and is a mental health professional. This means one of two things, either she doesn't give a shit about the dude or she has reason to not take him seriously. (See what I posted about my stepson.) 2. The man that you describe is no dummy, I'm pretty sure that he's capable in figuring out to the pill what a lethal dose of something is. This recent episode reminds me of an editor that I used to work with who was in the habit of getting drunk and calling me up at odd hours babbling about killing himself. One night he screamed "I've taken 8 Vicodins!!!" Yeah, have a fucking nice time, they give me the equivalent of that with my morning coffee. 3. You don't say whether or not he's tried AA, but I suspect that "no" is the real answer. I can only share my own experience, which is to find someone that is capable of walking you through the process that is outlined in the AA book and follow the directions. Finding a likable person that will be your friend is irrelevant, if he wants a friend he can buy a dog, the point here is to find someone who is going to tell him the truth whether he likes it or not. 4. As far as the wife ordering a drink, why not? It's not her problem it is HIS problem. I'm reminded of this time at a convention when several of us went up to my buddy's room after the hotel bar closed to continue shooting the shit about books and stuff. Bill brewed up some Jamaican Blue Mountain coffee and then produced a bottle of Amaretto for anyone who wanted to fortify their coffee. As he was pouring out shots he came to me and got a look of absolute horror on his face and began apologizing profusely for offering me alcohol. I just laughed and told him. "Look, if I was allergic to strawberries and we were having dinner would you freak out about ordering strawberry shortcake in my presence? Of course you wouldn't, I'm the one with the allergy, it ain't on you to watch out for me. I have a friend who works as a sanitation engineer, he doesn't have anyone ride around with him to make sure that he doesn't eat the garbage, his co-workers just assume that he has the common sense not to." 5. Pretty much everything that I can read between the lines screams "alcoholic drama queen craving attention". That doesn't mean that he isn't capable of harming himself, but by and large alcoholics are the most self-centered people in the world, they think far too highly of themselves to go through with the act. This isn't to say that the man doesn't need help, he most certainly does, my experience is that once the drinking has stopped the other things will start to fall into place, after all, alcohol is one of the most effective depressants known, small wonder the poor bastard is miserable. 6. Laws on involuntary commitment vary from state to state so that's something to look into. Sadly, a golden opportunity would have been when he had the pills in his system regardless of what they were, that's considered being a threat to one's self pretty much anywhere and would have been good for at least 72 hours of observation and an interview by a professional. 7. None of this is on you, your wife, his wife or the man in the moon. You have described a highly intelligent functional alcoholic. if the dude REALLY wants to off himself, he will and there isn't a thing that you can do about it and it isn't on you anyway. From everything you've described he's asking for help in a very strange way, let's just hope he's willing to accept it when the time comes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) Illinois has laws similar to other states to get a forced psychiatric hold with inpatient stuff, but it has to be done in a certain situation and by those close to him, like his wife. http://ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=040500050HCh.+III+Art.+VI&ActID=1496&ChapterID=34&SeqStart=11400000&SeqEnd=12900000 Edited August 5, 2019 by Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 I live in Indiana, I just love going to Chicago. So the wife is more concerned than I thought and they have a meeting this week to see his therapist. My wife talked to him too and he admitted to her he's been feeling very depressed and very angry and agitated. My wife being the nurse that she is asked for the medicines he's on and he's on freaking Vyvanse right now. Vyvanse is an amphetamine for ADHD and Binge Eating Disorder. I've been on it and while it's helped with my ADHD, it made me very agitated. I know that might not surprise anyone here, but my base level is not angry - I'm usually very nice and empathetic to a fault and reserved now, I just like ranting in what i write. I wound up stopping the Vyvanse because of how irritated it made me feel. I just had a short fuse for everything when normally my fuse is extremely long. If anything, he should get off of that I think. My wife knows him better than anyone, she knows what he's capable of, knows what their upbringing was like, and knows he's a danger to himself. This isn't someone who craves attention. He would love it too just be able to disappear and have no one ever know. If he didn't have the thing at ND, he'd probably be a shut in. The scariest thing is he reminds of Benoit in how Jericho, Dean, Chavo, and others would call him Houdini. He'll just disappear when you're texting him and that will be for weeks on end. He'll disappear if people are over for dinner. He just becomes a total ghost until we hear from his wife about whatever is going on. It's complicated situation, but one I've never had to deal with or see before. My wife is going to see if he wants to go out for lunch this week so they can have a one on one talk. We'll see what comes of that. Oh yeah, he's already been involuntarily admitted once before for a 72 hour stay. I knew he was admitted and I thought he admitted himself, but he was basically taken away. i still wish his wife were doing more or that we had more insight to what's going on. It really sucks. Feeling helpless blows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 Been there, more times than I can possibly count, feeling helpless for someone you care about makes you feel at a loss and you're just stuck with what they do. Especially, if it's someone you only know online who lives nowhere near you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Craig H said: Would it help calling a suicide hotline? Yes, talking to professionals or support people can really help. It is extremely dangerous for his wife not to take his situation seriously. The amount of emotional support he receives can mean the difference between life and death. His wife pulling away from him may make it easier for him to make the decision to harm himself. I am not sure if your friend is mentally ill enough for him to be involuntarily committed, you can stress to him the need to seek counseling and avoid coping with his feelings in a negative manner. Be careful if he shows any of the classic nest lightening signs like if he starts giving away his most treasured possessions or makes excessive monetary donations. This can me a sign of him severing his ties with society and prepping himself for the act. The real key is to give him attention IF he asks for it. You don't need to stick him in a rubber room if he's not crying out for help and frankly, he'll find that annoying. However, the best thing you can do is to encourage him to talk to you (or someone) that can help him parse out his feelings. Help him reduce the stigma that comes with having to rely on someone else for help and he will be more likely to seek out counseling when he feels overwhelmed rather than compartmentalize and wallow in depression. Edited August 5, 2019 by J.T. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 5, 2019 Share Posted August 5, 2019 On 7/25/2019 at 4:40 AM, Brian Fowler said: Not to derail the intraboard discussion, but: My stepdad has now spent the last full week in the hospital, and is likely to be there at least a couple more. He went from our local hospital, to a larger one, to the ICU of that one in a few days. He's had more units of blood than the human body actually holds and a kidney removed. He's been severely anemic and his internal bleeding was caused by his blood thinners suddenly making his blood stop clotting at all. On top of that, he has severe degenerative arthritis in one of his knees that needs repaired, but that's clearly well down the list now. Disappointingly, he did not get to come home today. After "blood not clotting" put him in the hospital and ultimately cost him a kidney, his body has snapped the other way, it's clotting too quickly, and putting him at elevated risk for a stroke, so his doctor isn't willing to let him come home until it's gotten a little better. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB-13 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 With my depression struggles, I absolutely will not ever have a gun in my house because I don't want a snap decision/judgment to lead to my death. Don't want that easy way out. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Update: he got to come home today. Has a wicked long scar, and the cat that has been extremely sad and needy without her daddy is now ignoring him because she's mad he was gone almost three weeks. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: Update: he got to come home today. Has a wicked long scar, and the cat that has been extremely sad and needy without her daddy is now ignoring him because she's mad he was gone almost three weeks. Glad to hear your stepdad is home. The cat will get over it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: Update: he got to come home today. Has a wicked long scar, and the cat that has been extremely sad and needy without her daddy is now ignoring him because she's mad he was gone almost three weeks. They will rebond. Just happy to hear that your pops is back home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Brian Fowler said: Update: he got to come home today. Has a wicked long scar, and the cat that has been extremely sad and needy without her daddy is now ignoring him because she's mad he was gone almost three weeks. That's great, man. And I read that with you having a Boston accent. "Wicked long scah." 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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