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Elsalvajeloco

2016 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

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7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

Are drugs legal in Bellator?

Garry Cook, damn. First Man City, now this. Most likely he finds a way of landing on his feet though.

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Looks like the UFC will scaling back the # of events next year by ten. I'm guessing there will be plenty of roster trimming.

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A majority of the UFC Canada office has been laid off including Tom Wright.

 

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I think the UFC can stand to cut about 10 events.  However many PPV's they currently have a year (13/14?), I would try to reduce by about three or four.  No more than 11 PPV events max a year.  Saves the trouble of having to worry about cancelling at least one PPV a year or converting one into an FS1 card due to injuries or whatever, which has been happening for a while.  Also time for The Ultimate Fighter to go on hiatus.  

My one major concern is if the people who will be filling in for all the people who just got fired know and understand MMA and will be able to do those jobs as well as the rest of the previous staff.

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13 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I think the UFC can stand to cut about 10 events.  However many PPV's they currently have a year (13/14?), I would try to reduce by about three or four.  No more than 11 PPV events max a year.  Saves the trouble of having to worry about cancelling at least one PPV a year or converting one into an FS1 card due to injuries or whatever, which has been happening for a while.  Also time for The Ultimate Fighter to go on hiatus.  

I think TUF is gonna stick around as long they have a reality show obligation with Fox. That's not really going anywhere until Fox makes that decision along with the UFC. I think they can cut down on FS1 shows because they can promise Fox better quality of middle tier shows. The Sioux Falls event was a fun show, and the Portland event was decent. However,  you can see why they didn't have good ratings. Guaranteed fun fights doesn't necessarily mean good ratings. A person like Cristiane Justino is always gonna to have bigger interest than a John Lineker just because there is casual interest still. If people are willing to logon to Fight Pass to see her demolish some lady in half a round, they will tune into her fights when the viewing option is a bit simpler. If they can't replicate that success or have someone like that on every FS1 card, they will make sure it isn't as top heavy a card. If people are going to watch a three hour main card live, John Lineker can't be the biggest star among the list of fighters. However, I think if you have him as part some package deal where you have a more notable, legit main event (meaning valuable in name more so than just rankings implications), you can give a number of events a very viable chance to be successful because you're not dependent on some random mid tier fighter (in name) and the interest that may or may not follow that particular fighter.

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I think some less FS1 shows is probably a good thing until they have more ratings draw type guys.  IMHO, this is why letting Benson Henderson go was a bad idea because he always drew good numbers when he fought on FOX or FS1.  IMHO, there's value in having guys who can draw the eyeballs for TV too.

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44 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I think some less FS1 shows is probably a good thing until they have more ratings draw type guys.  IMHO, this is why letting Benson Henderson go was a bad idea because he always drew good numbers when he fought on FOX or FS1.  IMHO, there's value in having guys who can draw the eyeballs for TV too.

I don't think it was that bad to let Benson go because the overall numbers are still up (I mean you still had some low #s in 2014-2015 along with a lower avg.) and the UFC has a very strong middle tier. It just comes down to how many situational people do you have. Part of that is just getting more fights for people who are healthy. I mean if Donald Cerrone can fight a good name welterweight in a five round main event...then why the hell not? If he fights on PPV once a year, then that's 2-3 fights you can have as either a co-main or main event for FS1 or Fox. Benson was kinda in a weird place because he was out of the LW mix really, but they really didn't have a ton of faith in him as a welterweight. The scenario of Benson being Fox exclusive fighter was kinda put into place due to his contract ordeal. If he would have signed a new deal, there was a good chance he would go back to fighting on PPVs or at least probably headlining the prelims before PPVs. The reason I say that is with the way he looked against Koreshkov and against Patricio Pitbull, there was no guarantee Benson would have performed well enough to be a perennial headliner. Unless he is just solely there to put someone over as the B-side, I doubt #14 or #15 ranked welterweight or unranked Benson Henderson would be the guy they throw on FS1 as part of the main event. With less shows, he would be thrown in a Urijah Faber role. Again, the middle tier is strong enough where no one guy or gal  pretty much outshines them all. I think going forward, the UFC needs to put more shine on the younger guys so they can break out of that middle tier and advance more through the ranks. You're going to have your pretenders, but that comes with the territory. However, by doing that, the process makes it that much easier for the brass to say, "Okay, this is the guy."

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11 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think TUF is gonna stick around as long they have a reality show obligation with Fox. That's not really going anywhere until Fox makes that decision along with the UFC. I think they can cut down on FS1 shows because they can promise Fox better quality of middle tier shows. The Sioux Falls event was a fun show, and the Portland event was decent. However,  you can see why they didn't have good ratings. Guaranteed fun fights doesn't necessarily mean good ratings. A person like Cristiane Justino is always gonna to have bigger interest than a John Lineker just because there is casual interest still. If people are willing to logon to Fight Pass to see her demolish some lady in half a round, they will tune into her fights when the viewing option is a bit simpler. If they can't replicate that success or have someone like that on every FS1 card, they will make sure it isn't as top heavy a card. If people are going to watch a three hour main card live, John Lineker can't be the biggest star among the list of fighters. However, I think if you have him as part some package deal where you have a more notable, legit main event (meaning valuable in name more so than just rankings implications), you can give a number of events a very viable chance to be successful because you're not dependent on some random mid tier fighter (in name) and the interest that may or may not follow that particular fighter.

Jeremy Botter is saying otherwise.

I think it's the right move right now.  The Ultimate Fighter is simply not the vehicle and ratings grabber it once was.  We've gotten some solid fighters and contenders out of it, and that's good.  I just think the show has dried out and winded down.  Ultimate Fighter was  better served when there were less UFC fight cards and programming annually.  That's no longer the case.

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8 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Jeremy Botter is saying otherwise.

I think it's the right move right now.  The Ultimate Fighter is simply not the vehicle and ratings grabber it once was.  We've gotten some solid fighters and contenders out of it.  Ultimate Fighter was  better served when there were less UFC fight cards and programming annually.  That's no longer the case.

For FS1, it doesn't have to be. I think if FS1 gets more traditional sports programming (ie baseball playoffs which sometimes postpone TUF) to plug into that spot in the middle of the week, then it becomes imperative to have that space open simply because you're not going to be able to run a show for 3-4 months with baseball going on for several weeks of that. WME-IMG might want it to go away, but it still comes down to the demands of Fox and what's available.

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Cruz vs. Garbrandt is a go for UFC 207. I heard they were leaning towards to Cody, and I guess that's what they decided to go with.

Werdum vs. Velasquez 2 is also finalized for that card.

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FWIW Bisping is rumored to be on 206. So either they probably figure out a way to hammer a deal with GSP (who was in Vegas as of last night) or we probably get Nick Diaz somehow.

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Either way, that would be a spectacle. 

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8 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

For FS1, it doesn't have to be. I think if FS1 gets more traditional sports programming (ie baseball playoffs which sometimes postpone TUF) to plug into that spot in the middle of the week, then it becomes imperative to have that space open simply because you're not going to be able to run a show for 3-4 months with baseball going on for several weeks of that. WME-IMG might want it to go away, but it still comes down to the demands of Fox and what's available.

OK, so you are saying if WME-IMG wants to kill the show, Fox can seriously demand to keep it on the air?  Would Fox really try to pull rank in such a situation for a show that draws about a fraction of the ratings it used to?

As for Bisping, I can't see him making that turnaround after just barely surviving a five-round war with Dan Henderson.  I doubt it's GSP because it looks like UFC and GSP's lawyer are just getting warmed up for an extended cold war.  I'd have no problem if he did end up fighting four times this year, but it just seems that after getting knocked down by Henderson twice, he should probably rest up a little longer.  

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9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

FWIW Bisping is rumored to be on 206. So either they probably figure out a way to hammer a deal with GSP (who was in Vegas as of last night) or we probably get Nick Diaz somehow.

Michael Bisping is 3-0 in 2016 and might be going for 4-0!

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14 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

OK, so you are saying if WME-IMG wants to kill the show, Fox can seriously demand to keep it on the air?  Would Fox really try to pull rank in such a situation for a show that draws about a fraction of the ratings it used to?

First off, there are things called contracts. If there is one thing that WME-IMG won't do, it is violating contracts even if the previous regime signed off on them. Dealing with a network like Fox is different than how you handle the staff and talent. Different set of game rules, which include a number of big obligations. Those obligations only go away when you're no longer under contract with the network.

Second, other than live sports, what does FS1 have? That show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless is doing like what? Close to 0.0? I doubt Katie Nolan is doing any ratings because she is on like midnight my time. These are suppose to be flagship shows. FS1 is still basically the closest you're going to get to an actual UFC channel. If this was main Fox, unless the ratings climbed back up, it would be dunzo. However, it's not. So the ratings of the past don't matter as long as they stay above everything else. 

Third, the next season of TUF is already in the works and it's another revamp. So apparently, they're not abandoning this thing until they squeeze all the juice out.

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since we're talking about TUF, was there not an episode this week? i don't have cable, but haven't seen it pop up online yet.

this is the first season i've watched since rashad/stevenson won and i'm loving it. but i'm trying to stay spoiler-free and don't know where to find out about schedule changes.

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13 minutes ago, twiztor said:

since we're talking about TUF, was there not an episode this week? i don't have cable, but haven't seen it pop up online yet.

this is the first season i've watched since rashad/stevenson won and i'm loving it. but i'm trying to stay spoiler-free and don't know where to find out about schedule changes.

There is no episode listed for this past Wednesday so it probably went dark for baseball most likely.

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5 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

First off, there are things called contracts. If there is one thing that WME-IMG won't do, it is violating contracts even if the previous regime signed off on them. Dealing with a network like Fox is different than how you handle the staff and talent. Different set of game rules, which include

a number of big obligations. Those obligations only go away when you're no longer under contract with the network.

Second, other than live sports, what does FS1 have? That show with Shannon Sharpe and Skip Bayless is doing like what? Close to 0.0? I doubt Katie Nolan is doing any ratings because she is on like midnight my time. These are suppose to be flagship shows. FS1 is still basically the closest you're going to get to an actual UFC channel. If this was main Fox, unless the ratings climbed back up, it would be dunzo. However, it's not. So the ratings of the past don't matter as long as they stay above everything else. 

Third, the next season of TUF is already in the works and it's another revamp. So apparently, they're not abandoning this thing until they squeeze all the juice out.

OK, but have you read those TUF contracts?  What if they are on a season by season basis now?  Unless The Ultimate Fighter was already renewed for multiple more seasons until the end of the current FOX deal in two years, which I haven't heard about. In terms of programming, they do have UFC Tonight, which you didn't mention.  

Also, instead of The Ultimate Fighter, why not launch a new show?  

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3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

OK, but have you read those TUF contracts?  What if they are on a season by season basis now?  Unless The Ultimate Fighter was already renewed for multiple more seasons until the end of the current FOX deal in two years, which I haven't heard about.

If they were on a strictly season by season basis, the UFC (when it was still Zuffa owned) would've probably axed the show sometime ago especially if Fox didn't want TUF. Either way, it's still on what Fox wants. If Fox doesn't want it anymore, then they can do whatever.

3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

In terms of programming, they do have UFC Tonight, which you didn't mention.  

That's probably because UFC Tonight, UFC Insider, and some of those other first run programs don't do the same numbers as TUF. Do we even get the Countdown #s anymore? I mean the CM Punk doc really didn't do that well.

3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Also, instead of The Ultimate Fighter, why not launch a new show?  

That's what I said in my first post. I am not saying TUF should stick around forever. I am saying they have an obligation to Fox to air that specific programming until they find a suitable replacement that can yield the same numbers or better. The network isn't going to yank a show that's one of their highest rated programs without finding something that can at least match it (well at least in their opinion). That's how television works.

And that's what it sounds like they're doing. However, until then, TUF is still going to be around. Hence, why season 25 is still in the works. If the new show is greenlit to go into production once taping for that season is over, then it will probably be that replacement. However, if Fox decides that new project is not worth it, then we're getting more TUF. Simple as that.

If Fox had any more money to acquire rights to more live sports (on at least a semi regular basis) that gets similar ratings to their baseball games recently, then a lot of the UFC first run programming that wasn't live fights would get turfed. The general sports pundit/analyst stuff would too. However, as is, FS1 is basically the UFC channel with occasional major league baseball and college football & basketball w/ random racing thrown in.

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Mousasi-Hall 2 is the main event the Belfast show after Gunnar Nelson fell out of the DHK fight due to injury.

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