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Elsalvajeloco

2016 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

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10 minutes ago, Ace said:

My understanding is that he wanted his contract to make up for the lost sponsorships.

Based on what I've heard:

GSP's old contract (IIRC it's his deal from 2011) had a deal that allowed him certain types of sponsorship. It sounds like it was exclusive to his contract. In order for UFC not to violate their deal with Reebok, any new deal would negate that prior agreement. Hence, the impasse.

However, I would wait for a statement from the UFC before we start thinking he is free and clear. There was no way he would be would be fight on that old deal and be able to make up the difference without the sponsorship. So either way, any viable scenario would have to get rid of that old deal.

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Bellator getting ready to send GSP a blank check.

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4 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Bellator getting ready to send GSP a blank check.

I don't think that's the case. If you're paying GSP eight figures, how are you going to make that money back? Keep in mind, it wasn't that long ago that Bellator said they weren't that interested in returning to the PPV market anytime soon.

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I don't think that's the case. If you're paying GSP eight figures, how are you going to make that money back? 

Only run shows in large buildings in Montreal?

I reckon most likely, his UFC contract has been terminated so he can eventually sign a new UFC contract (once he's tested the waters of the smaller companies).

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I don't think that's the case. If you're paying GSP eight figures, how are you going to make that money back? Keep in mind, it wasn't that long ago that Bellator said they weren't that interested in returning to the PPV market anytime soon.

Ratings and ad revenue from people who will want to promote GSP fighting on free TV?

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43 minutes ago, AxB said:

Only run shows in large buildings in Montreal?

It's so weird that I heard that Bellator would be leaving a lot of these shoddy venues once their contracts ran out. I heard that in the middle of last year. They're doing a a two day doubleheader later this year at WinStar. 

Even if Bellator got their location scouting up to snuff, I doubt they could charge UFC prices. Stevenson, Pascal, and Bute use to draw big crowds in Quebec City and Montreal. If they ever got to 2 million at the gate, I would be greatly surprised. A little research shows Kovalev-Pascal I drew an estimated $1.2 million.

If anything, it would be a prestige signing. But for GSP to take less than $5 million (that's even a really lowball number) per fight, that would be a terrible career move at this stage in the game. You have X number of fights left as a big time superstar and you're wasting them on Douglas Lima, Andrey Koreshkov, and Rafael Carvalho? Not only that, but making pissant money to go with that.

22 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Ratings and ad revenue from people who will want to promote GSP fighting on free TV?

But how much ad revenue is Bellator actually getting? UFC's ad revenue trumps WWE, and WWE's ad revenue is pretty low considering they generate more weekly viewers than UFC does in a month without a big Fox show. So where does Bellator stack up if they're lower than WWE? Right now, Bellator is probably close to break even (or just little below that) because they don't spend as much on production as the UFC does even though some of their shows are glitzy. If you've noticed, they're not on a big free agent kick. They sign someone here and there, but they're not eating the biggest contracts. Shit, Bellator Kickboxing is probably just a tax write off. Right now, there would be little point in signing someone when they currently don't have a legitimate avenue to make that money back or see proper ROI. If there were more than that, Fedor would be with them right now. If I'm signing a dude on the wrong side of 30 and giving him $10 million, he better fight more than once every eight months or just when he feels like it. I think late last year and early this year shows that just because you pop a few good ratings that it really doesn't increase the value of the brand or product. Best case scenario is the next show gets some steam, and the show after that gets a little buzz it otherwise wouldn't get. Then people realize it's Bellator, and they go about their regular MMA viewing schedule. That's how it goes when the plans go absolutely right. This goes back to what I was saying two years ago. You (the promoter) don't determine what a tentpole event is. The people do. Fans are super selective for UFC. Viacom shouldn't expect it to be some exception with Bellator. If I am in their shoes, I'm looking for more than two big ratings a year. That's not gonna help Bellator become a profitable venture at some point.

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I think even if Bellator isn't interested in doing PPV, they would for a GSP one-off (or two-off) if the situation arises. Stack a card the best they can, try to get some interest. I can't imagine a scenario that Bellator would have GSP on free TV, I agree that there isn't any way they'd make their money back on it.

I'd be curious if they did a PPV with GSP, Chael, Tito, and a freak show legend fight with old popular names what kind of buyrate they could get. Wouldn't touch the top of UFC of course but it would probably do better than one would expect if they marketed it correctly. Course I don't expect GSP to ever fight anywhere except UFC but its still fun to think about.

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1 minute ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I think even if Bellator isn't interested in doing PPV, they would for a GSP one-off (or two-off) if the situation arises. Stack a card the best they can, try to get some interest. I can't imagine a scenario that Bellator would have GSP on free TV, I agree that there isn't any way they'd make their money back on it.

I'd be curious if they did a PPV with GSP, Chael, Tito, and a freak show legend fight with old popular names what kind of buyrate they could get. Wouldn't touch the top of UFC of course but it would probably do better than one would expect if they marketed it correctly. Course I don't expect GSP to ever fight anywhere except UFC but its still fun to think about.

The buyrate would most likely be the biggest non UFC MMA show ever. However, it would be still be one of the biggest money losers (if not the biggest) in MMA history. That's the problem with the whole setup. With GSP alone and a PPV retail price of about 30-40 dollars, you would probably need a break even of 350 to 400k to make it even worth the effort. Once you start adding people who make bank on a relative scale, then you guarantee it's an all time money loser. And I'm figuring that all those names together are worth 200k (maybe 250k) without the UFC name. That's double the non-UFC ceiling so I'm being generous. You would essentially need people to believe Tito Ortiz is in his prime and that Chael is fighting Anderson again. I have no earthly idea how that's going to happen, but anything is possible through prayer I guess. :) 

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Also, Mike Perry is fighting Alan Jouban on the Fox card in Sacramento. Jordan Mein is returning to the UFC to fight Emil Meek, who is set to make his debut after falling off the Hamburg event, on the UFC 206 card.

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So yeah, should be interesting to see where this goes.

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I'll believe the UFC until they say otherwise, they are generally right when it comes to fighters trying to get out of contracts.

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Well they did re-sign Rampage when he was still technically in a legally binding contract with Bellator MMA that Rampage and his manager believed they could self-terminate themselves.

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5 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Well they did re-sign Rampage when he was still technically in a legally binding contract with Bellator MMA that Rampage and his manager believed they could self-terminate themselves.

I think in hindsight, that move was more to agitate Bellator than anything else. They were more than happy to let Rampage fight that on his on after the fact.

On this one, hard to see UFC being that discouraged from a court battle.

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GSP has no more right to escape the UFC than a fugitive slave could proclaim themselves free upon reaching the north.  There is no Underground Railroad for UFC fighters.  They toil at the UFC plantation until they are no longer useful and may be safely discarded.  

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On 9/30/2016 at 3:36 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Giovani Decker is already out as the UFC Brazil SVP/GM. 

I also heard that over the next 2-3 weeks, there will probably be changeover in the Vegas office. Some people aren't happy about how the sale went down and how the news was reported to them prior to the sale. Not sure if the Decker news and this are related, but it might be.

Further update: About half of the UFC Asia office has been let go. The morale at LV HQ is at an all-time low. The new regime is most likely about to clean house. Tough break for a lot of people.

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Thomas Almeida vs. Albert Morales has been added to the card in Sao Paulo.

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There are always layoffs and changeovers like this when a company gets bought out.  Lucasfilm had it too after the Disney buy out.  Not to mention, Lucasarts got completely dissolved and 150 people lost their jobs.  Not saying it's right or cool, just saying this is commonly part of doing business.  People should've expected or made some early preparations for this.  Hopefully the staff that spent years working there and building the infrastructure can find work elsewhere.  

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39 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

There are always layoffs and changeovers like this when a company gets bought out.  Lucasfilm had it too after the Disney buy out.  Not to mention, Lucasarts got completely dissolved and 150 people lost their jobs.  Not saying it's right or cool, just saying this is commonly part of doing business.  People should've expected or made some early preparations for this.  Hopefully the staff that spent years working there and building the infrastructure can find work elsewhere.  

I think the Vegas ones are expected since people were dreading that there for months and weren't happy that they were not told the truth about the sale. There was going to be changeover one way or another. 

The international ones are more intriguing. Zuffa basically spent a year or so trying to solidify the EMEA and Asia offices as well Brazil after a rash of prior turnover. Now that is all for naught basically. Looking outside the prism of Last One Hired, First One Fired, it's interesting since UFC is probably in a better place in those particular markets due to those hires IMO. I know Grace Tourinho set a really low bar, but Decker did a solid job for only being in the company for a handful of months. I think he saw the handwriting on the wall and decided to bounce. They haven't hired a replacement yet so I am guessing they will basically delegate all the major duties to local people. They had a big media day in Sao Paulo today for the November card, and it was basically all the Brazilian fighters and no figurehead person. 

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Holy fucking shit. Cook went from potential new CEO and new frontman (replacing Dana) to losing his job in three months. This is true bloodshed.

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Dana probably helped throw Cook under the bus for job security like Rex Ryan did with Greg Roman earlier this year.

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21 minutes ago, Hail Sabin said:

Dana probably helped throw Cook under the bus for job security like Rex Ryan did with Greg Roman earlier this year.

Dude, Dana loved Cook. That's probably why he was chosen as a replacement once Dana finally did step away.  The fact that they're doing a complete facelift on the international business development end, and he was in the guy in charge most likely did him in. There was no position for him to be promoted to.

Another widely beloved person is apparently gone as well: Shanda Maloney

Shit, I would have pegged her to eventually replace Sholler once he left after 205. I guess not. That one sucks.

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