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6 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Spider-Man Homecoming opened to way less and finished with a higher gross.

Did the movie eventually turn a profit? Probably (although I guarantee not on paper. According to Warner Brothers, all 8 Harry Potter movies lost money) but it didn't make nearly as much as they wanted and expected it to. 

I mean, we get it, you don't like Whedon. That's fine. But the reason they hired Whedon to revamp Justice League is because BvS was a failure. JL ended up failing as well, in fact even worse, but you don't do what WB did in the wake of that movie if it was a success. 

And the editing in the Ultimate Edition is still really poor. Better than in the theatrical cut, but that's a really low bar.

Spider-Man Homecoming made basically the same as BvS both domestic and worldwide and probably on Blu Ray/DVD as well.  If you want to argue over a couple million I guess..  but it's the same thing.  No,  I'm not a big fan of Whedon at all just like you aren't a fan of Snyder so I think we are both clear where we stand on that.  We don't have to rehash what we like or dislike about two guys who will never work on a DC movie again. 

The only movie that lost WB money was Justice League.  Man of Steel made money.  BvS made money though not as much as they hoped. Suicide Squad made a ton of fucking money and I don't like that movie at all but it turned a huge profit.  And of course Wonder Woman turned a huge profit for WB.  One of the highest of the year along with IT.   So even with JL failing,  I think WB will be fine so long as they stay out of the way and allow Wan and Jenkins etc. to make their films.  

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See now you're saying things that aren't true. I've repeatedly called Zack Snyder one of the greatest visual artists in the world on this message board. I've praised Dawn, 300, Watchmen and even Sucker Punch. I've called the first half of Man of Steel brilliant.

Homecoming made 4 million more domestic while opening to about 50 million less. It's that second point that's important. That's a significantly bigger collapse than the others. It's the only movie in the top 20 that made more money on opening weekend than the entire rest of it's run combined.

The only other movie to open to 150+ and not hit 400 domestic is Spider-Man 3. And even it made a bit more domestic than BvS. 

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Snyder's movies are undeniably visually arresting.   When it comes to his catalogue, it's the dialogue and pacing I have issues with, but the man knows how to set a fucking stage and handle action sequences.  That's for sure.

I love most MCU movies and haven't particularly cared for DCU movies not named Wonder Woman, but only Black Panther, Thor:  Ragnarok, and the first Avengers movie have managed to have superhero brawls topping the prison fight in Watchmen or Kal-El v, Zod and Kal-El vs. Faora in Man of Steel..

If Sucker Punch had only taken place in Baby Doll's dream world, it would've been the best movie ever.

Sadly, he dropped the ball on the human parts of the Sucker Punch story and reduced characters to cardboard cut-outs. 

It also did not help that he opted for an ending liberally cribbed from Brazil that made folks cry foul.

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I know it’s a shot for shot adaption, but until someone makes a movie as great as Watchmen, Snyder will always get props over Whedon.

But, I might just be pretty mad that Whedon ended Angel on a massive cliffhanger and never even attempted to go back to it (comics don’t count). You’re going to entertain the idea of rebooting/revive Buffy, but not Angel?!? Fuck you, Joss.

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11 minutes ago, Casey said:

I know it’s a shot for shot adaption, but until someone makes a movie as great as Watchmen, Snyder will always get props over Whedon.

I think some of the acting particularly by Wilson and Akerman was dodgy but the movie is visually stunning and the cut that is like 4 hours long is incredible.  I'm not sure there's another director in the world that could have done what Snyder did with that when you add up the movie and combine it with the mini subplots the thing is damn impressive. 

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Yeah. Ackerman was really bad. I don't remember having any issues with Wilson, but I don't really remember him standing out either. Goode played Ozymandias really oddly. But Jackie Earl Haley and Jeffery Dean Morgan were top notch.

But I thoroughly recommend the Ultimate Cut. The story works so much better with Tales of the Black Freighter. It's jarring as hell when it jumps to the animation the first time, but in a good way.

There are things that bother me about the movie (it seems to largely miss Moore's point that real life superheroes would be pathetic, but that's part and parcel with hiring Zack Snyder. He's always going to make fights cool) but it's a really great experience as it's own object.

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Dr. Manhattan remains my favorite “superhero” to this day. Pure godly nihilism.

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18 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

There are things that bother me about the movie (it seems to largely miss Moore's point that real life superheroes would be pathetic, but that's part and parcel with hiring Zack Snyder.

I thought he was spot on as far as that premise went.

Snyder did an excellent job in displaying that superhero work was probably the only thing these types of characters were cut out for and not all of them had lofty reasons for engaging in vigilantism.

Take out the world domination scheme and the act of Ozymandias taking out a man like The Comedian doesn't seem like such a horrible thing.

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9 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Well that's not true. It had a big second weekend drop off but so have plenty of movies that opened huge 

Dude, just look at http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/ (For some reason, Box Office Mojo's overall all-time weekend chart doesn't list what percentage of the film's take was in the opening weekend, but its US all-time weekend chart does. So I linked to the latter.)

Batman vs Superman had the 11th highest opening weekend of all time, which is great and all... but that opening weekend accounted for over half of its total take. No other move in the top 100 is that front-loaded. You specifically cite Spider-Man: Homecoming, but its opening weekend was only 35% of its total take. In other words, after its opening weekend Homecoming went on to take in almost double what it took in said weekend. BvS's failed to equal its opening weekend over the entire rest of its theatrical run. It was indeed a crash of unusual magnitude.

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You do realize we are talking about more than just first weekend to second, right? The total multiplier from opening weekend to close.

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7 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

You do realize we are talking about more than just first weekend to second, right? The total multiplier from opening weekend to close.

Multipliers are cool and all.  I think The Greatest Showman has an insane multiplier right now.  But it's made about $170M total or something like that.  I'd rather have the total amount of money no matter how a movie got there. 

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Which has fuck all to do with the point that BvS collapsed at a highly unusual level.

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11 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I should have just said I dont believe it matters how Spider-Man and BvS arrived at their worldwide total.

Well it does matter since poor box office trending will have second and third order of effects. 

If your second and third week theatrical receipts drop off by a huge percentage and the overall opinion of the movie sours over time, it may negatively affect your DVD sales and possibly harm other merchandising efforts (toy sales, etc.).

There is more at stake than just box office receipts.  Recouping your budget is the least of your worries.

Now you know why people are so quick to label movies as "flops" even though they are financially sound from a box office perspective and if the DCEU is going to prosper, it cannot rest on the critical acclaim of Wonder Woman to put asses in seats for Shazam! and other upcoming projects.

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Basically, the difference here is nobody lost their job over Homecoming. An entire department was reorganized over BvS.

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There's a lot of cognitive reframing to make excuses for WB setting money on fire while laying off scores of poor lower level production people. It wasn't just BvS that got them there, but a few years ago none of us would have believed a movie where Batman fights Supeman would clear less than a billion dollars worldwide because a studio would have to really get in their own way to screw that up. 

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Yes but nobody believed a Spider-Man movie with Downey Jr. Would also make $850M.

@J.T. the next movies were Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. Both were huge financial successes for WB. Bvs toys and blu Ray's sold like hot cakes.

That's why BvS has nothing to do with JL. Justice League failed on it's own merits 

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3 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Yes but nobody believed a Spider-Man movie with Downey Jr. Would also make $850M.

@J.T. the next movies were Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman. Both were huge financial successes for WB. Bvs toys and blu Ray's sold like hot cakes.

That's why BvS has nothing to do with JL. Justice League failed on it's own merits 

You, my friend, are a true believer. It's remarkable.

The idea that people didn't like the tone of BvS and thus stayed away from JL with Suicide Squad as its own thing promoted very much like Guardians of the Galaxy and Wonder Woman having such good word of mouth to carry it is just somehow completely beyond you. You should donate yourself to science. Or at least to marketing.

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11 minutes ago, Matt D said:

You, my friend, are a true believer. It's remarkable.

The idea that people didn't like the tone of BvS and thus stayed away from JL with Suicide Squad as its own thing promoted very much like Guardians of the Galaxy and Wonder Woman having such good word of mouth to carry it is just somehow completely beyond you. You should donate yourself to science. Or at least to marketing.

WOM has nothing to do with SS opening at $133M and WW opening at $103M. The DCEU had 4 straight openers $100M+ that doesn't happen if comic fans and moviegoers are completely "dissatisfied" with what they've seen to that point.

The behind the scenes rumblings of JL and studio interference and two directors killed JL's hype before it ever got going. Then the movie sucked and it was DOA from there.

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I just watched Justice League. The last time I yelled that much at a screen was last election night. 

Holy fuck, that stunk. Who wrote that? I mean, there was enough shit to piss off old comic book geeks like myself, but that shit is overwhelmed by the utter incompetence in script and editing. This is already ready for a “How Did This Made?” pod.  

How the fuck do the TV shows on the fucking CW of all places, get it so right and these movies, besides WW, just fuck it up? 

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25 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

Holy fuck, that stunk. Who wrote that?

Joss Whedon and Chris Terrio. And yup,  it stinks. 

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They couldn’t have written it together. That was not any sort of team effort. Gal rules. She just shined despite upskirt shots and being surrounded by a disaster. 

And as a fan of the Flash TV show it actually pissed me off that this fucking disaster used the “Barry’s dad is in jail for his mom’s murder” plot point. Fuck You. 

Edit: The movie was so bad it apparently made me go full angrynerd. 

 

 

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I actually ended up laughing at a lot of the badness. And I did pop for the Green Lantern.

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Snyder and Terrio wrote the story. Terrio scripted it. Zack shot it. The work assembly was reportedly "unwatchable"

Whedon was hired (reportedly by Snyder himself but that seems questionable) to write the reshoots. Snyder either left the project because of his daughter's suicide or was fired. Whedon directed the reshoots. It's a mess.

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