Raziel Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Bryan single handedly saved Wrestle Mania. There isn't another wrestler on planet Earth that could've got that crowd back after seeing the streak end in a shitty match with Brock. Quoted for all the argument that needed to be said. That JCM quote might be the single most ridiculous statement ever uttered on this board, and that covers a whole lot of stupid shit said. Statements like that is why Bryan suffers a lot of backlash from people that don't hold him as the Wrestling Messiah and people start believing that there's a difference between fans and zealots. Fowler said Cena was a better worker than Bryan two posts later so you are already wrong Oof, this tournament is bringing out the worst in us this year. And I already question Fowler's mind, since he thinks the Triple H/Taker match at Mania 27 was a Top 5 match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Miner Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Daniel Bryan's charisma outside the ring is really overrated. The whole "awww shucks" act of his is a small step up from Gomer Pyle. Different story in ring. Having a great match with Triple H at his peak was an accomplishment few could achieve. So having one in 2014 is a borderline miracle. They weren't in the voting period but the Lesnar matches with Triple H were nowhere near as good since only a true underdog can have a great match with Triple H. Bryan did have a better PPV match with Kane than Lesnar had with Undertaker during the voting period. The Undertaker match was a disaster. Even with Undertaker having a concussion it would have been nice to see Lesnar do something to show he can be a ring general and improvise a bit to get the crowd into the match. The crowd would be surprised with the Undertaker losing either way. They shouldn't have been in their seats when it happened. Just something as simple as crossing the Undertakers arms to mimic what Undertaker would do while pinning an opponent would have gotten their attention. The whole in ring psychology of the streak was broken so maybe it was beyond repair. The booking plays a role in that but so does fan attitude. A lot of people here, and other places, would say no way the streak is ever being broken. Might be difficult to engage the people that for some reason have to pretend like they know for certain what is going to happen. I think the booking is more responsible for this failure. Plus watching Lesnar throw around Kane would have been better than the Bryan had with him at Extreme Rules. Last year the fan rebellion over Daniel Bryan into the lead up to Mania enhanced the show. This year they are detracting. Even Daniel Bryan fans are saying they shouldn't have brought Daniel Bryan back if he wasn't going to win the Rumble. They've actually reached the point they would rather have him off TV if he isn't going to win. Just give up on him being the new face of the company leading a new business boom. It isn't happening. The people making the decisions aren't going to let it happen. Even if they tried there isn't some huge mainstream audience just waiting to watch Gomer Pyle trade insults with the authority since even the people watching now don't enjoy it. Voting for Brock but I give Daniel Bryan a lot of credit for making it closer than it should be. He has some real challenges ahead of him. I think he is the first wrestler in history with fans that would rather see him off tv than on tv unless they get their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Raziel403, on 07 Mar 2015 - 09:38 AM, said: SorceressKnight, on 07 Mar 2015 - 04:43 AM, said: JCM, on 06 Mar 2015 - 2:54 PM, said:Bryan single handedly saved Wrestle Mania. There isn't another wrestler on planet Earth that could've got that crowd back after seeing the streak end in a shitty match with Brock. Quoted for all the argument that needed to be said. That JCM quote might be the single most ridiculous statement ever uttered on this board, and that covers a whole lot of stupid shit said. Statements like that is why Bryan suffers a lot of backlash from people that don't hold him as the Wrestling Messiah and people start believing that there's a difference between fans and zealots. So let's here the list of other active wrestlers that could've came out in front of that crowd, and got them back into the show in a match with Batista and Randy Orton. If it's such a stupid quote I'm sure you'll be able to come up with a dozen or so names that could've done what Bryan did after the fans went comatose seeing the streak end. Brock had great matches with Cena and Rollins. Bryan had great matches with HHH, Batista, Orton, and Reigns. It's not that hard people. HHH is a fantastic worker. Orton is very good. Batista is decent. I'm guessing your point is that Bryan is carrying people but Reigns is the only subpar in-ring performer you named. The point isn't that the guys Bryan faced are all sub par the point is they're no where near Cena and Rollins as in ring performers during the past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Raziel403, on 07 Mar 2015 - 09:38 AM, said: SorceressKnight, on 07 Mar 2015 - 04:43 AM, said: JCM, on 06 Mar 2015 - 2:54 PM, said:Bryan single handedly saved Wrestle Mania. There isn't another wrestler on planet Earth that could've got that crowd back after seeing the streak end in a shitty match with Brock. Quoted for all the argument that needed to be said. That JCM quote might be the single most ridiculous statement ever uttered on this board, and that covers a whole lot of stupid shit said. Statements like that is why Bryan suffers a lot of backlash from people that don't hold him as the Wrestling Messiah and people start believing that there's a difference between fans and zealots. So let's here the list of other active wrestlers that could've came out in front of that crowd, and got them back into the show in a match with Batista and Randy Orton. If it's such a stupid quote I'm sure you'll be able to come up with a dozen or so names that could've done what Bryan did after the fans went comatose seeing the streak end. Dolph Ziggler, CM Punk (he wasn't retired yet), John Cena, Any other half-way over face at SummerSlam that was booked the exact same to Bryan with that storyline. And I've rewatched Mania 30. Crowd was waking up during the fucking Diva's match after the Streak match, so your ascertation that the crowd was DOA is untrue. Bryan's good, but he's not the only guy that can do what he does. He's just the flavor of the year until Zayn comes up and replaces him. BTW - nice goalpost moving of "Active Wrestlers" when your original asinine statement of "no other wrestler on the planet" won't hold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 So Raziel takes the new cake of most ridiculous statement in this thread with the "Ziggler would have gotten as much of a reaction as Bryan" bullshit. People love bringing up that Bryan was created by beating Cena at Summerslam, but that's completely disregarding how got to a Summerslam Main Event in the first place: He was out popping Cena before that even started all on his run leading to it. He got more over primarily as a pissed off baby face then Ziggler and even Punk ever did based almost exclusively on him kicking fucking ass. Acting like anyone else could have pulled that off simply begs the question why nobody else has in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Triple H was working his ass off at Mania. This idea that Bryan carried him is the worst shit I've seen in a thread of terrible shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. I'm talking pre-Summerslam smart guy. The entire reason he got the Summerslam match was how hot he was coming into it, what with being the driving force behind the Shield finally losing and him and Orton beating the shit out of each other. Bryan was already mega over pre-Authority. He was more over before Summerslam then Ziggler has ever been and more over then Punk had ever been outside Chicago and Philly. Ignoring this makes any case you want to use about Bryan being replaceable bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The same Cena who turned Bray babyface would've got the fans to cheer him in the main event? Rock and Punk are the only two guys that have worked a match for WWE the last few years that could've came close, and neither guy had a match in the voting period. Neither guy is going far in the tourney, but Brock is the most protected guy on the roster. Anytime he's had a match since his comeback that didn't involve Cena it's been mostly shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. I'm talking pre-Summerslam smart guy. The entire reason he got the Summerslam match was how hot he was coming into it, what with being the driving force behind the Shield finally losing and him and Orton beating the shit out of each other. Bryan was already mega over pre-Authority. He was more over before Summerslam then Ziggler has ever been and more over then Punk had ever been outside Chicago and Philly. Ignoring this makes any case you want to use about Bryan being replaceable bullshit. At what point has Bryan ever been an ass kicking face in WWE? That was your statement. I think Bryan's replaceable. You don't Its not something we can actually test. Well, we can when his replacement comes up, but we won't know until then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Triple H was working his ass off at Mania. This idea that Bryan carried him is the worst shit I've seen in a thread of terrible shit. I agree, but there is a notable difference in the match HHH wrestled again Bryan and the one he wrestled with Bryan. Bryan's match with HHH was better than any of Lesnar's matches with HHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Bryan was on an ass kicking run beating the Shield and Orton heading into the Cena match. Then they booked him as a hopeless underdog that couldn't get the job done after he fucking beat the best guy in the company clean for the belt right before that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLaw Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Bryan's replaceable? Their booking went to shit once he went out. If he is replaceable, they don't have his replacement on the roster. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. This is an interesting statement, because I think that being one of two or three wrestlers working that can get that sort of slavish devotion is notable for this conversation. Just because you don't understand why Bryan's fans aren't devoted to him shouldn't discount the fact that they are, and that is a really important aspect of being a wrestler. Saying "This wrestler is over solely because his fans really love him" is rather circular, I think. That should be what every wrestler strives for, and I would think should be a blue print for "sports entertainment". I mean, I follow sports teams the same way that many people follow Daniel Bryan. They have been invested in him for years, and just because there is someone who might be better, it doesn't mean that they should stop supporting him. If someone told me the Cavs were not going to win the title this year, I would get in to an argument with them about it. If Lebron James retired tomorrow, I'd still cheer for the Cavs. Bryan has inspired that same type of fervent fandom through a medium that doesn't often produce those reactions. I get that you don't think it's deserving, but the fact that it's reality shouldn't be discounted from the equation completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Triple H was working his ass off at Mania. This idea that Bryan carried him is the worst shit I've seen in a thread of terrible shit. I agree, but there is a notable difference in the match HHH wrestled again Bryan and the one he wrestled with Bryan. Bryan's match with HHH was better than any of Lesnar's matches with HHH. No argument there. Trips went against Lesnar and pretty much wrestled the old WWE Epic Main Event Superhero vs. Super villain crap that everyone is doing. The match with Bryan had a lot more psychology to it but let me say this... It was also worked very differently than any other Bryan match during that same run with all of the limb work and the selling. So while I absolutely adore the match and give Bryan a ton of credit for it... I don't believe he carried it at all. It was neither a Bryan match or a Triple H match. I give both of them a ton of credit for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. I'm talking pre-Summerslam smart guy. The entire reason he got the Summerslam match was how hot he was coming into it, what with being the driving force behind the Shield finally losing and him and Orton beating the shit out of each other. Bryan was already mega over pre-Authority. He was more over before Summerslam then Ziggler has ever been and more over then Punk had ever been outside Chicago and Philly. Ignoring this makes any case you want to use about Bryan being replaceable bullshit. At what point has Bryan ever been an ass kicking face in WWE? That was your statement. I think Bryan's replaceable. You don't Its not something we can actually test. Well, we can when his replacement comes up, but we won't know until then. Once more, pre-Summerslam when he was knocking the SHIELD on there ass and kicking the shit out of Randy Orton. He got mega over based on him being a small guy with a complex that he could over come his size and not be viewed as the weak link by being the guy who was going out and just kicking the shit out of everyone preluding the Cena match. You are the one using revisionist history by not referencing it and passing it over. Your argument only works if they plucked Bryan out of obscurity before the Summerslam main event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Yeah, Bryan was always over even dating back to his matches with Ziggler/Miz and his feud with Sheamus but what made him red hot was *gasp* tagging/backstage stuff with Kane and the hot tags against The Shield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raziel Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Kicking ass?? He spend a vast majority of his Miracle year getting his ass handed to him on a weekly basis, only just winning in the end. He lost every fued up to Mania, took every bit of shitting on by his opposition until he finally won, and then got switched into running away from Kane until he went down. Shit, this Bryan revisionist history is getting ridiculous. Bryan is over SOLELY because he fans follow him to the point of delusion. Yes he's good. Yes he's a great wrestler, but HE IS NOT THE FUCKING WRESTLING GOD THAT CAN DO NO WRONG AND IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN DO WHAT HE DOES. He's not. Period. This place is gonna be fucking unbearable when Zayn come up and does "Underdog that gets his ass kicked all the time" better and with a longer shelf life. I'm talking pre-Summerslam smart guy. The entire reason he got the Summerslam match was how hot he was coming into it, what with being the driving force behind the Shield finally losing and him and Orton beating the shit out of each other. Bryan was already mega over pre-Authority. He was more over before Summerslam then Ziggler has ever been and more over then Punk had ever been outside Chicago and Philly. Ignoring this makes any case you want to use about Bryan being replaceable bullshit. At what point has Bryan ever been an ass kicking face in WWE? That was your statement. I think Bryan's replaceable. You don't Its not something we can actually test. Well, we can when his replacement comes up, but we won't know until then. Once more, pre-Summerslam when he was knocking the SHIELD on there ass and kicking the shit out of Randy Orton. He got mega over based on him being a small guy with a complex that he could over come his size and not be viewed as the weak link by being the guy who was going out and just kicking the shit out of everyone preluding the Cena match. You are the one using revisionist history by not referencing it and passing it over. Your argument only works if they plucked Bryan out of obscurity before the Summerslam main event. You expect me to remember farther back than WWE Creative does??? Point conceded, I was not remembering the "I'm not the weak link" pre-SummerSlam story. But I still contend that you could plug someone like Ziggler, who's continued to be very over and victim of far shittier booking without the massive backlash from fans for far longer than Bryan and it could work. But I can't prove that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Bryan got over to the degree he did (he was already more over than most of the roster) because he lifted Mark Briscoes look and hot tag formula and applied it to WWE matches with his own spin. It was something that felt unique on WWE television, and was helped along dramatically by the fact that he was paired off against The Shield for a big chunk of the period in question. Kudos to Bryan for making that situation work. Having said that, and even acknowledging that his segments with Kane were very entertaining, I think the guy is actually pretty bad as a promo or character once you inject any sort of seriousness into an angle. He doesn't have the facial expressions for it, the voice for it, or the demeanor. That's not to say serious angles with Bryan can't get over, or that he can never do something along those lines that works, but rather that it is the exception to the standard Bryan rule of smiling during 90% of the segments he's in, or awkwardly delivering lines that are supposed to make him sound "intense." A lot of people wanted (still want?) to believe that Bryan could have and should have been the next Austin/Rock type star based on the chants and pops. I'm not saying that there is no way it could have happened (I don't think it will now), but I think personality wise and in terms of what he brings to the table he is more analogous to Foley than he was to either of those guys. And that is not a bad thing. And that's still not an excuse for the way he's been booked recently. This is an interesting discussion that can go a lot of ways, but one thing I will say is that even if you look at Bryan as a liability in the sense that the fans won't let anyone other than him be the real top guy at the moment (and I have seen this argument made), I think you can still argue that he has more worth to the company than Brock. Of course the problem with both guys has more to do with booking than anything, but if you are looking at it purely from a "value to the company" perspective, it's hard to argue that the guy with arguably the best contract in company history, who really hasn't improved business at all, is worth it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I probably would have voted for Lesnar based on his collective work of shocking everyone at WM30 and ragdolling Cena at Summerslam and whatever the PPV is called that comes after Summerslam. However, the moment at Royal Rumble where, after Lesnar has be brutalizing both competitors, and then after Rollins has performed the elbow drop on Lesnar, and then after Cena and Rollins have been going at it for a while with Lesnar out of the match, and then all of a fucking sudden Lesnar just appears out of nowhere and starts fucking up Cena and Rollins's shit again is one of those exquisite moments in wrestling that I truly love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Raziel's FSW tribute posts are just shitty. Come on dude, at least read last year's archives and take some cues from the original if you want to make slick troll posts against a board favorite. Just awful work on your part so far. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Bryan single handedly saved Wrestle Mania. There isn't another wrestler on planet Earth that could've got that crowd back after seeing the streak end in a shitty match with Brock. Quoted for all the argument that needed to be said. That JCM quote might be the single most ridiculous statement ever uttered on this board, and that covers a whole lot of stupid shit said.Statements like that is why Bryan suffers a lot of backlash from people that don't hold him as the Wrestling Messiah and people start believing that there's a difference between fans and zealots. Fowler said Cena was a better worker than Bryan two posts later so you are already wrong No. I said he's a better pro wrestler. [/Lance Storm] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisM Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I had to come back on board, just to get in on Maarrcchhh Maaaadddnessss!! And I voted for the beast incarnate.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 I'm never sure what to make of Fowlers Cena stuff. Like I get it, Cena is really good and probably doesn't get a fair shake sometimes in this tournament, but how can you watch the same act for 10 years and never have it evolve and not grow tired of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 His act is awful. Bell to bell he the best alive. Occasionally he goes into serious mode in promos and is so good at it that it makes the god awful character even worse. But, for me, the in ring is totally separate. He is the best in the world at the kind of pro wrestling I love most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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