Name The Big Men Better Than Mark Henry

[Matt D]

Re: Bossman, 

 

I looked at some stuff of his during the early 00s not that long ago. I'll find it and repost. I thought he was very efficient and smart though.

[Graham Crackers]

What about Yoshie? I never really got to check him out except for one Akiyama match a few years ago when it was pimped on WKO.

I've seen him hyped so much around here but so far what I've seen is good but not as spectacular as it was made out to be. That said, I feel like I may not have seen his most popular matches so I'd love for someone to list their favorite matches of his so I can give him a fair shake.

[DylanWaco]

For Japanese guys I like Hama and Akebono a lot, but neither are on Henry's level.  Hama is like a less good version of Yoko, in that he's wildly obese in a dangerous way, which makes his big spots seem even more impressive (and his big bumps).  He's very good at milking those spots and working them into matches opposite a pretty broad array of guys.  The problem is that his physical limitations are still obvious at times.  Even in a setting more conducive to a guy with his skills I don't think he'd be as good as Henry because I don't think he has the charisma, the ability to express in the ring, or the aura of real danger.  I also don't see any reason to believe he's as versatile.  Akebono is a guy who I actually think COULD be a Henry level guy in the right setting/scenario, though I tend to think his weaknesses can be really glaring at times in a way Henry's really aren't.  

[Clayton Jones]

I can't really speak to Morishima's work against juniors in Japan, but a lot of the back and forth in his ROH tenure against smaller guys was really due to the prevalent style at the time. I think if you look back his size is still a factor. This is clear in the difference between the way he worked most of his opponents versus the way he worked Brent Albright and Claudio during that one weekend double shot. It was pretty markedly different in how much he gave the bigger guys comparitively.

Yeah exactly, from what I've seen during his ROH run, of the smaller guys he worked he gave Shingo and Strong the most in terms of tossing him around... and that was believable because they are both strong dudes that could legit get him up for moves. The Joe and Nigel matches are also very different than how he worked against Danielson for example. And that Claudio match you mentioned is one of my favorites from that year, I was always disapointed that they didn't run a one on one rematch between the two of them.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I imagine Bossman had some good stuff during the Attitude Era, but let's not be silly.  HHH wasn't even as good in his best year as Corino was that same year.

We've been over this, you lost.

[DylanWaco]

We've been over this, you lost.

 

I won in a slaughter, but I was humble in victory and let you pretend to be a long time Henry fan

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I was a Mark Henry fan before Bix was accusing people who weren't Mark Henry fans of being racist. I miss those days.

[The Batboy]

I've seen him hyped so much around here but so far what I've seen is good but not as spectacular as it was made out to be. That said, I feel like I may not have seen his most popular matches so I'd love for someone to list their favorite matches of his so I can give him a fair shake.

If memory serves, there was a match versus Tomohiro Ishii where Yoshie's fat factors into every single move of match. It was the most consistently fat-based performance I can recall, and well worth your time.

[T.Rex-n-effeckx]

The problem with judging some guys' Attitude-era work is that it was such a workrate-unfriendly atmosphere.  The matches were so short, so overloaded with gimmicks and ga-ga, and often involving such a terrible undercard roster that even the all-time greats had a hard time making much of an impression.  (How many matches did Rikishi have which WEREN'T entirely built around stinkfaces?)  When you're jerking the curtain with Ice Train on Thunder or having a ninety-second match with Road Dogg which largely consists of hitting him with cookie sheets and then getting mock-humped a lot, it's pretty tough to show off your skills.  Bossman certainly was rarely-if-ever in a position to have classic matches in the last few years of his career (and the unbelievable amount of utter Wrestlecrap which he was forced to enact in '99 probably makes me more biased against that tenure than I should be).  Traylor seemed to me to be kinda like a Mike Awesome type who was incredible in the right match, but didn't get booked in the right match very often.  

 

 

 

Oh bullshit.  They banned me because I didn't agree with them, period.  I did nothing wrong on that board: didn't start fights, didn't break the rules, nothing.  I said something Mike didn't like (that I liked Triple H better than either Ian Rotten or Steve Corino, don't recall which one) and then Mike responded by insulting me and calling me stupid; I responded by politely asking him to quit flaming me, and then POOF, I'm banned.  How else can you possibly spin that?  

No you were banned for doing a "Everyone is gonna hate me for saying this and I'm going to be bullied" shtick that you are repeating here.

Mike187 has no patience for people who make their opinions about themselves, people who play martyr, etc.

Tim Evans has opinions that no one agrees with but he doesn't play martyr. He defends his opinions based on the wrestling not based on his perceived sense of being bullied.

There were people on WrestlingKO who had opinions that Mike agreed with who also would made their opinions about themselves and not the wrestling. Those people were banned as well.

You played martyr, you were banned.

At the time you asked for explanation and you got explanation.

You have chosen to ignore it and continue to play martyr.

 

I can't really speak to Morishima's work against juniors in Japan, but a lot of the back and forth in his ROH tenure against smaller guys was really due to the prevalent style at the time.

 

His work against or tagged with juniors in Japan was similar, he would work like a junior heavy in matches with juniors.

What about Yoshie? I never really got to check him out except for one Akiyama match a few years ago when it was pimped on WKO.

 

I like Yoshie a lot but at his best I feel like he works more like Tommy Rich,Phil Hickerson thick brawler than the type of thing Dylan is talking about here.

 

[Eivion]

For Japanese guys I like Hama and Akebono a lot, but neither are on Henry's level.  Hama is like a less good version of Yoko, in that he's wildly obese in a dangerous way, which makes his big spots seem even more impressive (and his big bumps).  He's very good at milking those spots and working them into matches opposite a pretty broad array of guys.  The problem is that his physical limitations are still obvious at times.  Even in a setting more conducive to a guy with his skills I don't think he'd be as good as Henry because I don't think he has the charisma, the ability to express in the ring, or the aura of real danger.  I also don't see any reason to believe he's as versatile.  Akebono is a guy who I actually think COULD be a Henry level guy in the right setting/scenario, though I tend to think his weaknesses can be really glaring at times in a way Henry's really aren't.  

I think both guys (Hama & Akebono) would improve dramatically if they lost around 50-100 lbs and improved their stamina. I disagree on Hama not having the charisma. His charisma is what carried him so far for a while with fans. I do somewhat agree on his expressions and very much agree on the lack of a dangerous aura.

[DylanWaco]

I think Hama is charismatic in his own way, but I don't think he's Henry charismatic.  At Henry's best moments he's as charismatic a big guy as I've ever seen in wrestling.  Of the non-transcendent stars over the course of the last fifteen years, there aren't very many people I would put above him either.  

[goodhelmet]

Henry is a guy who is super physically impressive live, and I think it never quite comes across on TV.I was at the pre-WWE Smackdown with the Angle v Undertaker main event that ended in DQ when Henry splashed Taker through table. And it is really weird having watched it live, where Angles arms were so atrophied, there were times where it looked like Taker was wrestling himself and the Henry splash was a giant holy shit moment...on tape Angle looks far more credible and the splash doesn't have the sheer force that you experienced in the Arena.

 

This is absolutely true. I was at the Vengeance PPV where Henry and Big Show broke the ring and unless you are next to them, you don't really understand how huge they are. When that ring broke, the whole crowd went fucking nuts after going nuts for the last 5 minutes of the match. I was 3rd row at the TLC PPV in 2009 where Show and Jericho fought DX. Show goes over the barricade on our side of the ring and holy shit, he is so fucking huge and everything he does just looks like it hurts because of his size. I legit thought when he went over the barricade he was going to bring the entire thing down. 

[FLIK]

I've seen him hyped so much around here but so far what I've seen is good but not as spectacular as it was made out to be. That said, I feel like I may not have seen his most popular matches so I'd love for someone to list their favorite matches of his so I can give him a fair shake.

 

His peak stuff is from 03/04 through 08 or so. Always delivered well in the big yearly tournaments, G1, CC, Fire Festival, etc...

 

 

I would take Aja, Bull, and yeah even Kharma over Mark Henry every single day of the week.  (Haven't seen enough prime-era Dump or Monster Rippa to make a good judgement; Jumbo Hori might be in the discussion too.)

 

Aja & Bull I mentioned earlier in the thread. Dump would def go on the list too. 

 

Kharma/Amazing/Awesome Kong i'd put up thear as well. Had a similar career progression to Henry too in that they were both insanely green when they 1st got their breaks in the the national spotlight and it took them a while to catch on, though Kharma learned quicker. She'd been having great matches for a couple years prior allready but didn't really learn how to actually work the "monster gimmick" well until she started wrestling in the US on a regular basis in 06/07. 

 

Jumbo Hori was more tall big then monster big

[Matt D]

My bossman write-ups:

 

Big Boss Man vs Test SmackDown 1/4/00
Official WWEFanNation youtube site link: www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdMGbLa_jiM

One problem with looking at matches from Boss Man's matches from his comeback is that the matches were so damn short back then. This went about four minutes. It was set up after two big encounters with Albert and Boss Man that Steph and Hunter put Test in and the main story was Boss Man working over Test's broken nose. 

There's a lot you can see from this though. Boss Man had great nose-based offense. Lots of varied stuff including nasty knees and punches, dropping him on the barricade, a mugging sort of rear-noselock. He had smart cut-offs of hope spots, including a backelbow and boot in the corner to the nose. He ate Test's offense really well, especially his crappy strikes and died amazingly on a big boot. He was great jawing to the fans early on and was really good at giving his offense room to breathe. His timing on his cut offs/eating Test's hope spots were really good. 

Obviously this isn't going to be a GREAT MATCH or anything (it's four minutes long) but everything Boss Man had to do here, I think he did well. I even think he did a very good job of getting stuff in those four minutes effectively.

I also saw a nothing two minute Metal Saturn vs Boss Man match from 02 and he was definitely not in as good shape. His punches were still great. His selling of Saturn's punches were great, but he was sluggish down to his gear which was his black swat shirt with khaki pants. After hitting a big boot he raises his hands and shouts "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD!" which was pretty awesome.

 

------

Big Boss Man vs the Hurricane Metal 02/02/02
 

Now this is a fun sub 3-min match. These things do exist. It's worked very smartly. Tons of shtick from both guys. Hurricane starts out with the handshake and Boss Man takes his hand. They share a thumbs up and Boss Man pulls him in and intimidates him. Hurricane tries for a slam but gets clubbered for his trouble. Boss Man taunts Molly outside. Hurricane tries offense. Boss Man overpowers him. His strikes again look good. Hurricane goes for the chokeslam. Boss Man chokes him instead. Does the "I'M THE KING OF THE WORLD" thing again. Ref breaks it. Molly hits a missile dropkick. Boss Man sells it exactly as much as he should, chases Molly around, runs back in. Hurricane briefly takes over, hits a big move or two, including the big body slam, and then Boss Man hits the Boss Man Slam out of nowhere with a huge hook of the leg and that's the match. 

They managed to set up things early in the match (the bodyslam attempt, Boss Man's taunting of Molly) that paid off later on. It was very believable with Boss Man giving just about as much as he should have for Helms. Again, it's not a great match given the time limitation, BUT if you can come up with a better sub-3 minute big man/little man match I'd love to see it.

[Ace]

Mark Henry is unhappy about the angry black man stereotype and wants to be cast as the black Picard. Are you going to tell him "no"?

I think he'd surrender less.

[JRGoldman]

Boss Man deserves credit for being one of the few attitude era heels who always managed to get booed, and never crossed over in to "cool heel" territory. Also, at the risk of making this thread one of the most stereotypically DVDVR things ever, he had some pretty fantastic punches. 

[Victator]

The match where Road Dogg won the Hardcore belt from Bossman is really good. Also his WWF Title match with Mankind. I generally like everything he did from that period. There was this promo leading to Survivor Series where he dresses down Austin on the mic like nobody has. Austin did a great rebuttal and you want to see them fight.Akebono works really hard, but I think he started wrestling too late to ever be good.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Post that one Vic

[Victator]

The promo or the Road Dogg match?

[Big Fresh]

Wait a damn minute, Trent Acid was good for awhile.

And Edge is incredible.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

The promo.

[MORELOCK]

Edge's terrible and unconvincing spear is enough to take him down from "incredible" territory.

[DylanWaco]

Funny enough the last guy I saw take Edge's spear in a convincing way was Henry who did on the fucking floor during that MITB match a few years ago

[Jingus]

That's kinda part of my earlier point: I don't see anything wrong with Edge's spear.  At all.  Yeah, it's not as vicious-looking as Goldberg's was, but that's partly because it's nowhere near as genuinely dangerous as Goldberg's was.  The spear is a fuckin' tough move to work, it's one of those without much wiggle room for safety, and while Edge's certainly erred on the side of safety I never thought it had any sort of "oh, c'mon, there's no way that Giant Baba's offense could actually hurt" look to it.  

[MORELOCK]

To me it always looked like someone was falling backward on purpose because Edge tried to hug them. Edge didn't have the right body to make a move like that look convincing like so many others have - and not just Goldberg. Roman Reigns spears men larger than him and it doesn't take me out of the match.