Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I find myself somewhere between @Matt D's cautious optimism (though I am treading doubly cautiously) and @Jrag's lack of trust in the cards due to the heavy advance. There was a time when AEW could not miss on PPV/big cards - then there was the injury bug last summer, then the Punk/All Out nonsense, now apparently we're talking about the Elite maybe leaving... My point being, I'd have the utmost trust in Tony to put together a great show were all things equal, but injuries and politics just kinda are what they are. Who knows, this rumor about Osprey/Jericho might just be some public leveraging/negotiating were not privvy to. All of that said: since I'm gonna be super-broke for the foreseeable future anyway due to some real life BS this week, I said to myself 'what's another couple hundo?' and grabbed tickets to Grand Slam to keep it going as an annual tradition for my better half and I. Obviously, last year was a *very* transitional time for AEW, to say the least, so I'm looking forward to hopefully getting back to the Mania-lite vibe of the first. Hope to catch some of you there 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 In some ways, the show has too many masters. It's their first foray into England and potentially should feel a little like Summerslam 1992 or Backlash in Puerto Rico felt where that local element is important. Khan talks a lot about how London is a home to him, etc., and they have a lot of support in Europe. It's their biggest show ever and should very much feel like an "AEW" show, even more so than Forbidden Door. It's the second "All In" and the first one wasn't exactly what AEW was going to be and that should maybe be called back to even though AEW is far less "Elite" than it once was. Punk is their biggest star and should be represented. It's aiming to be the biggest ticket sales/distributed/whatever show in wrestling of ALL TIME and it should be treated like a very big deal in general for that reason. They have All Out the following week and need to balance and manage both things. You have specific talent it makes sense to showcase (PAC for instance, Saraya, maybe even a guy like Kip) or that would help the draw possibly (someone like a Paul Wight), the guys outside the norm like Ospreay or a Nigel, and then some key injuries (though not as many as Forbidden Door 1) like Danielson. All that said, that's all the more reason to be focused and careful about this and do it right. I do get the sense he's treating it like an oddity or a bonus or an "attraction" show as opposed to, let's say, their "Wrestlemania 3." Which isn't to say nothing important ever happens on Forbidden Door, for instance, but it's more of a "stop everything and focus on this stuff" type of event than something organically looped in. Or at least half and half. That said, Khan does understand from the Forbidden Door experience that you do some dream matches or workrate classics in a situation like this. And if they do have some major MJF vs Cole payoff on this show, well, that is a little bit like a MegaPowers Explode scenario, even if it's not Hulk vs Andre in the biggest match of all time. 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Matt D said: They have All Out the following week and need to balance and manage both things This to me is a point which cannot be overstated enough- not to mention (fresh in my brain, for obvious reasons) Grand Slam just after that. So we've got two stadium shows, one of which is in a brand new market (plus all the other qualifiers you stated) and one of which is in their competitor's backyard, and a PPV in their most heavily run market which also happens to be the hometown of arguably their top star. Those are some mighty high stakes over the next couple months. Edited July 28, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) On top of all that they have a brand new TV show they are pushing hard and currently the best built stuff is paying off there. MJF/Cole vs FTR is a money match with a build that makes sense for one of the bigger shows, but it’s happening *this week. Edited July 28, 2023 by Jrag 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 21 minutes ago, Matt D said: In some ways, the show has too many masters. It's their first foray into England and potentially should feel a little like Summerslam 1992 or Backlash in Puerto Rico felt where that local element is important. Khan talks a lot about how London is a home to him, etc., and they have a lot of support in Europe. It's their biggest show ever and should very much feel like an "AEW" show, even more so than Forbidden Door. It's the second "All In" and the first one wasn't exactly what AEW was going to be and that should maybe be called back to even though AEW is far less "Elite" than it once was. Punk is their biggest star and should be represented. It's aiming to be the biggest ticket sales/distributed/whatever show in wrestling of ALL TIME and it should be treated like a very big deal in general for that reason. They have All Out the following week and need to balance and manage both things. You have specific talent it makes sense to showcase (PAC for instance, Saraya, maybe even a guy like Kip) or that would help the draw possibly (someone like a Paul Wight), the guys outside the norm like Ospreay or a Nigel, and then some key injuries (though not as many as Forbidden Door 1) like Danielson. All that said, that's all the more reason to be focused and careful about this and do it right. I do get the sense he's treating it like an oddity or a bonus or an "attraction" show as opposed to, let's say, their "Wrestlemania 3." Which isn't to say nothing important ever happens on Forbidden Door, for instance, but it's more of a "stop everything and focus on this stuff" type of event than something organically looped in. Or at least half and half. That said, Khan does understand from the Forbidden Door experience that you do some dream matches or workrate classics in a situation like this. And if they do have some major MJF vs Cole payoff on this show, well, that is a little bit like a MegaPowers Explode scenario, even if it's not Hulk vs Andre in the biggest match of all time. 9 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: This to me is a point which cannot be overstated enough- not to mention (fresh in my brain, for obvious reasons) Grand Slam just after that. So we've got two stadium shows, one of which is in a brand new market (plus all the other qualifiers you stated) and one of which is in their competitor's backyard, and a PPV in their most heavily run market which also happens to be the hometown of arguably their top star. Those are some mighty high stakes over the next couple months. Agreed. All In is the biggest AEW show ever. All Out is one of the biggest AEW PPV's. Grand Slam Dynamite is the biggest Dynamite of the year. To come together in such a short space of time. All In is the biggest priority. You don't want to alienate the home country fanbase. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Expectations have dropped from "biggest wrestling show of all time airing in front of millions of people for free on Max with a 5-star banger main event" to "giant house show airing on Bleacher Report to the same 100,000 people who always buy AEW pay per views with a snoozefest main event" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jrag said: On top of all that they have a brand new TV show they are pushing hard and currently the best built stuff is paying off there. MJF/Cole vs FTR is a money match with a build that makes sense for one of the bigger shows, but it’s happening next week. I thought FTR vs. MJF/Cole is on Collision this week? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 If they do end up going the Punk/MJF route on one of these show that is something they need to start building on Saturday. Would be a shame to hot shot that with like 1 week of build or something. Said this in the other thread, but to me best case scenario is Joe/Punk and MJF/Cole at All In and then Punk/MJF at All Out. All the pieces are in place for that. They just need to actually build it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Hayter/Saraya feels like it would have been the way to go for at least a co-main event at All In but it doesn't sound like Hayter will be back in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I still think the move is to start the show with Hayter coming out, welcoming the crowd, telling them that they're about to make history, and that they all better damn well be back next year for All In III to cheer her towards winning the gold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I'm looking forward to MJF vs. CM Punk III. Two of the best matches in AEW history. Have both at *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said: Expectations have dropped from "biggest wrestling show of all time airing in front of millions of people for free on Max with a 5-star banger main event" to "giant house show airing on Bleacher Report to the same 100,000 people who always buy AEW pay per views with a snoozefest main event" Very, very much my fear (which Matt also touched on, with his point about TK possibly treating this like a sort of non-canonical attraction, rather than a WMIII) - the absolute last thing I want is for this to feel like one of those WWF Insurrexion VHS just in front of a larger crowd. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 Just now, Zakk_Sabbath said: Very, very much my fear (which Matt also touched on, with his point about TK possibly treating this like a sort of non-canonical attraction, rather than a WMIII) - the absolute last thing I want is for this to feel like one of those WWF Insurrexion VHS just in front of a larger crowd. Yep. You don't want to piss off a fan base so bad, you can't get them back. A glorified house show won't cut it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I know these are just reports but if some of this is true, Tony Khan is REALLY fucking up. If he blows a 75,000 attended event with terrible booking, there's no hope for him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) BTW, this is what I had proposed for a card in April: Spoiler Omega vs Ospreay vs Okada MJF (c) vs Sting (w/Darby, setting up the All In gimmick match the following week) FTR (c) vs Young Bucks Adam Page vs Chris Jericho vs CM Punk Hayter (c) vs Britt (babyface vs babyface) Saraya vs Mercedes Mone (based around the injury history) Bryan Danielson (Pure Champion) vs Zack Sabre, Jr. Mox/Claudio/Yuta vs Tanahashi/Shibata/Shota Umino (Stop the Moxley) House of Black (c) vs Best Friends/OC vs United Empire vs Dark Order Powerhouse Hobbs (c) vs PAC Acclaimed as hosts With Starks/Hook/Jungle Boy/Lee/Sammy/Swerve/Wardlow/Acclaimed all having big matches at All Out the next week. I wouldn't go with a single one of these now except for FTR vs Bucks. Some of that is due to just how different and interesting Collision ended up being. Edited July 28, 2023 by Matt D 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLowe Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: I know these are just reports but if some of this is true, Tony Khan is REALLY fucking up. If he blows a 75,000 attended event with terrible booking, there's no hope for him. I guess I haven't seen reports other than the Osprey-Jericho rumor and the Hayter injury note. The rest seems to be mostly baseless speculation fueled by the same doomers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 11 minutes ago, JLowe said: I guess I haven't seen reports other than the Osprey-Jericho rumor and the Hayter injury note. The rest seems to be mostly baseless speculation fueled by the same doomers. The Jericho-Ospreay rumor is so bad it almost deserves a thread on its own. That would be a dreadful decision. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I've got no prob with Ospreay getting a win over Jericho at All In. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Infinit said: I've got no prob with Ospreay getting a win over Jericho at All In. They'll try to go 25 minutes and Jericho will be blown up after 5. A complete waste. Jericho as a top performer is done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 There should be 3 objectives for ALL IN. The first they've already achieved. The attendance figures are massive. Way exceeding even the best case scenario projections. That was an incredibly risky and ballsy move by Tony Khan and it paid off tremendously. He's actually going to nearly sell out Wembley Stadium. But then the other two objectives are to sell the PPV to us at home who are not going to be there live. Bleacher Report is a bad streaming service but I won't argue about that part of it because Max supposedly isn't ready for live streaming, even though I don't believe that because they already show sports. In order to sell the PPV we need matches. They don't have to be 5-star classics up and down the card but we need things to be interested in. The show is a month away and so far all we have are bad reports and speculation. Maybe MJF-Cole is leading to something for ALL IN but it'd be nice if they started giving a clear direction. The final objective is the show needs to be memorable. It's going to be in front of 75,000+ people and maybe the most viewers AEW has ever had on streaming. People should be walking away saying "wow, the aesthetic was great and they delivered." Ospreay-Jericho has zero chance of accomplishing that second part. It's not going to deliver if they do it because Jericho is washed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 People in Wembley will really, really, really want to sing to Judas. If given a choice, they'd probably rather sing to Judas than to see Omega vs Ospreay III. I realize it's not a binary choice, but... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphman 3000 Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: The final objective is the show needs to be memorable. It's going to be in front of 75,000+ people and maybe the most viewers AEW has ever had on streaming. People should be walking away saying "wow, the aesthetic was great and they delivered." I've gotta wonder if Cena teasing the impending Wembley WrestleMania shook Tony's confidence and he's already written All In off as a loss in his head Edited July 28, 2023 by Dolphman 3000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 I may not be the biggest Jericho fan and I certainly don't want to see Jericho vs Ospreay, but to say Jericho will be blown up after 5 minutes is fucking dumb. The guy can still go. It's nearly as bizarre of a thought as thinking that Tony's confidence is shook and he's written off All In, a show that's going to do their biggest house ever, all because Cena teased a WM in London. Come on folks. You can do better than this. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said: I've gotta wonder if Cena teasing the impending Wembley WrestleMania shook Tony's confidence and he's already written All In off as a loss in his head I mean, don't get me wrong, I have concerns, but that? Edited July 28, 2023 by Zakk_Sabbath 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted July 28, 2023 Share Posted July 28, 2023 6 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said: I've gotta wonder if Cena teasing the impending Wembley WrestleMania shook Tony's confidence and he's already written All In off as a loss in his head I almost made a joke post where I came up with 10 matches with RUSH in them. (RUSH vs Omega! RUSH vs Punk! RUSH/Andrade/Vance vs House of Black). It was a more reasonable thing to wonder than whatever you just said. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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