Dynamite - 8/17/2022

[Jiji]

lmao Fightful Select just posted this:

Quote

CM Punk "may have almost decided to not come to Dynamite" last night, more on Hangman promo
CM Punk challenged Hangman Page to a rematch on the August 17 episode of AEW Dynamite, but according to Wrestling Observer, it wasn't planned. We were able to confirm this.

Punk defeated Hangman Page at AEW Double or Nothing earlier this year before being forced away from the ring for several months. Before that, however, there was word that Punk and Hangman Page didn't see eye to eye on some promo material that emerged on an episode of Dynamite that built their match. Fightful has been told that it was to the point that CM Punk met with AEW higher ups about the context of Hangman Page's promo. Voices of Wrestling had noted that they'd heard that Punk had told others after the meeting in May, that he wouldn't lose to Hangman Page.

Fightful was told by several within AEW that they felt the situation that unfolded on the August 17 episode of Dynamite was "unfair" to Hangman Page if he wasn't aware of it. One said "even if he was aware of it, what would he have done? Charged to the ring past Tony (Khan)? Interrupted a promo he knew he wasn't supposed to be a part of? There was no way Hangman could have 'won' in that situation." We're told Hangman Page was in the building, but haven't heard that he responded in any particular way. Those that we spoke to said that Hangman isn't a confrontational person and is generally well-liked among the roster.

The belief among several on the roster we spoke to was that Punk believed Hangman went into business for himself leading into their Double or Nothing match, and that Punk may have seen the August 17 promo as a "receipt." It's important to note that was locker room speculation as opposed to Punk telling anyone that directly. From Punk's end of things, the Hangman promo had alluded to Punk's issues with Colt Cabana, and happened during a week where Punk wasn't at the show, while Punk's shot at Hangman happened with Hangman present.

Sources familiar with the situation claim that CM Punk has often verbally expressed his displeasure, including recently so blatantly that they thought he might end up quitting the company. Those close to him said that he might have almost decided to stay home instead of coming to the August 17 Dynamite, but don't think he would have quit. We haven't been given any indication that he plans on leaving AEW, but one veteran said they have heard of "threats being levied."

Fightful was also told that the Moxley vs. Punk match for the August 24 episode of AEW Dynamite was a late decision. We haven't been told how late, and when we asked AEW higher ups for context, we didn't gain any. We haven't learned the crux of what led to Punk's current frustrations that would have led to him hypothetically not showing up at Dynamite, whether it be the change in the match, Hangman's jab back in may or otherwise.

 

[S.K.o.S.]

I do have some trouble believing Punk legitimately expects Hangman to apologize to him on live television.

[JLowe]

Not to do fantasy booking or be paranoid, but one possibility is that this is a work, and the have Page jump Punk next week, busting him open and/or "injuring" his foot. Punk tries to wrestle but Mox makes short work of him, ref stoppage.

[Pedro]

The whole thing sounds like shit to me.  So Punk isn't happy but nobody knows why?  Punk is pretty private, so did these journalists just happen to talk to someone he is close to or are they BS'ing us? I'd go with the latter here.  Clickbait at it's best.  If Punk were pissed at Page's comments in May he seems to be the type that we all would have known about by now, not just finding out 3 months later.  Not that I want it personally, but this gives all of the ammo for Page to interfere next week and get into the title match at the PPV. 

[Jiji]

2 minutes ago, JLowe said:

Not to do fantasy booking or be paranoid, but one possibility is that this is a work, and the have Page jump Punk next week, busting him open and/or "injuring" his foot. Punk tries to wrestle but Mox makes short work of him, ref stoppage.

Don't think there's a chance they do a WWF false advertisement but I don't think it's out of the question it could be planted to heat up a Punk/Hanger match.

[porksweats]

Is it a work, is it a shoot?

This isn't up for me to decide, I am captivated either way

[Matt D]

Just now, Jiji said:

Don't think there's a chance they do a WWF false advertisement but I don't think it's out of the question it could be planted to heat up a Punk/Hanger match.

Does Punk even have a signature gimmick match? Is it Dog Collar now?

[Jiji]

Just now, Matt D said:

Does Punk even have a signature gimmick match? Is it Dog Collar now?

Yeah it's the "I'm CM Punk and I beat you" stip.

If it's true and he's said he's not putting over Page and he's doing this kind of bullshit like last night, of course you try to reconciliate and play diplomacy but if it's not working I would start to plan for life w/o Punk.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Jiji

[John from Cincinnati]

I'm going to do some navel gazing about CM Punk. Sorry. It's going to begin by intersecting with my navel gazing about Cody Rhodes. DOUBLE FUCKING SORRY.

One of the Cody-isms I was getting very into before he up and left and started working a schedule that exploded his tit was his insistence that heels and babyfaces are an antiquated concept, that there are heels, there are babyfaces, and there were stars who could be themselves and be plugged in against anyone and let the people do what they may. For as much as people think Punk was going somewhat heel last night, it's possible he's just being himself and letting the chips fall where they may depending on who he's facing.

Timestamp 25:20.

He's splashing around a bit in Cody's water. He's a star and the people can do what they want, he's going to be him. If people want to boo him against Eddie Kingston or if he wants to fuck with Long Island for producing rancid garbage like Maxwell, he's still going to go on and be cheered enthusiastically the next week. He's not a heel or a babyface, he's CM Punk and he's above that stuff. 

 

I've seen people express surprise that Punk didn't take the cheap shot at Moxley's struggles with alcohol. But why would he? He's not a villain. He's CM Punk. And the CM Punk being presented to us has expressed regret for partaking in that kind of "hate" in the past.

The CM Punk being presented to us has respect for Moxley taking care of his health and getting help.

Is he going to go for cheap heel stuff that's so inconsistent with who he is in 2022? Why would he? He doesn't need to be a heel, he's CM Punk. We all know the ego that's there, we know Moxley thinks it's his spot, we know some mutual respect exists there but we don't know how much, so why go low? We have enough interesting ingredients. Stick to the things we can believe are real. These two believe they're the best and they're going to fucking have it out in a wrestling ring. No need to go to something we know is obviously fake. He's CM Punk, best to keep it in the realm of plausible and have use guessing what kind of real beef is or isn't there. 

 

Going to the comments about Adam Page, nobody who enjoys CM Punk should be particularly salty about that stuff. Part of the appeal has always been the volatility and the potential that he might go off script and say something shocking. Is it petty? Maybe. But it's part of what's always been baked into the pie. It's neither heel nor babyface stuff, it's CM Punk stuff. It's consistent and I'm here for it. How real is it? What's his relationship like with Adam Page? I don't know. But given how weird the build was to their first match was, I know I'll be more interested in a second if I believe there's real heat. And I believe it now. Did CM Punk go into business for himself? Seems like it. Given the way smart fans are going to rally around him though, CM Punk just did Adam Page the biggest favour anyone's done for him in literal years.

 

Circling back to Cody, part of the appeal of him vs either Kenny or the Bucks after they split on screen and weren't speaking about one another was the potential to present believable personal issues on screen. I think we're there with Punk and Page. I think we're there with Punk and some of his guys vs the Elite. I think it would be some of the most believable TV they could do and I think they could draw some real money presenting it. Tony Khan would impress the hell out of me if he could get some of those matches in the ring with the stink of real animosity on it, without any of the key people up and leaving. Make that the company's fall and winter now that everyone's back.

 

I should change my screen name to the X Files, because I want to believe.

 

This stuff approaches my ideal professional wrestling television. 

 

Make it happen Tony.

 

Or Punk just drops it to Mox next week and fucks off to his couch who knows, lol.

Edited August 18, 2022 by John from Cincinnati

[EVA]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

Don't think there's a chance they do a WWF false advertisement but I don't think it's out of the question it could be planted to heat up a Punk/Hanger match.

Hangman is #1 in the rankings. If Punk wins next week, he’s the obvious next challenger for All Out, and planting seeds of REAL LIFE BACKSTAGE HEAT now gives them runway to jump right into that two week build to the pape.

I’m not trying to be the ITS A WORK guy here, but it’s plausible.

And having heat with a guy with long blonde hair plays into Punk’s current Bret phase.

[John from Cincinnati]

Between this and the MJF stuff, I'm all the way into "working the SHEETZ~!" AEW.

PS: Pay the terrorist, Tony.

[Pedro]

5 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'm going to do some navel gazing about CM Punk. Sorry. It's going to begin by intersecting with my navel gazing about Cody Rhodes. DOUBLE FUCKING SORRY.

One of the Cody-isms I was getting very into before he up and left and started working a schedule that exploded his tit was his insistence that heels and babyfaces are an antiquated concept, that there are heels, there are babyfaces, and there were stars who could be themselves and be plugged in against anyone and let the people do what they may. For as much as people think Punk was going somewhat heel last night, it's possible he's just being himself and letting the chips fall where they may depending on who he's facing.

Timestamp 25:20.

He's splashing around a bit in Cody's water. He's a star and the people can do what they want, he's going to be him. If people want to boo him against Eddie Kingston or if he wants to fuck with Long Island for producing rancid garbage like Maxwell, he's still going to go and be a giant babyface the next week. He's not a heel or a babyface, he's CM Punk and he's above that stuff. 

 

I've seen people express surprise that Punk didn't take the cheap shot at Moxley's struggles with alcohol. But why would he? He's not a villain. He's CM Punk. And the CM Punk being presented to us has expressed regret for partaking in that kind of "hate" in the past.

The CM Punk being presented to us has respect for Moxley taking care of his health and getting help.

Is he going to go for cheap heel stuff that's so inconsistent with who his is in 2022? Why would he? He doesn't need to be a heel, he's CM Punk. We all know the ego that's there, we know Moxley thinks it's his spot, we know some mutual respect exists there but we don't know how much, so why go low? We have enough interesting ingredients. Stick to the things we can believe are real. These two believe they're the best and they're going to fucking have it out in a wrestling ring. No need to go to something we know is obviously fake. He's CM Punk, best to keep it in the realm of plausible and have use guessing what kind of real beef is or isn't there. 

 

Going to the comments about Adam Page, nobody who enjoys CM Punk should be particularly salty about that stuff. Part of the appeal has always been the volatility and the potential that he might go off script and say something shocking. Is it petty? Maybe. But it's part of what's always been baked into the pie. It's neither heel nor babyface stuff, it's CM Punk stuff. It's consistent and I'm here for it. How real is it? What's his relationship like with Adam Page? I don't know. But given how weird the build was to their first match was, I know I'll be more interested in a second if I believe there's real heat. And I believe it now. Did CM Punk go into business for himself? Seems like it. Given the way smart fans are going to rally around him though, CM Punk just did Adam Page the biggest favour anyone's done for him in literal years.

 

Circling back to Cody, part of the appeal of him vs either Kenny or the Bucks after they split on screen and weren't speaking to one another was the potential to present believable personal issues on screen. I think we're there with Punk and Page. I think we're there with Punk and some of his guys vs the Elite. I think it would be some of the most believable TV they could do and I think they could draw some real money presenting it. Tony Khan would impress the hell out of me if he could get some of those matches in the ring with the stink of really animosity on it, without any of the key people up and leaving. Make that the company's fall and winter now that everyone's back.

 

I should change my screen name to the X Files, because I want to believe.

 

This stuff approaches my ideal professional wrestling television. 

 

Make it happen Tony.

 

Or Punk just drops it to Mox next week and fucks off to his couch who knows, lol.

we have disagreed a lot in the past, but I think you are spot on with this being just Punk being Punk. If anything it will have Page come out smelling like roses, whether they do have a main event level match or not. Good call. 

[JLowe]

6 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I'm going to do some navel gazing about CM Punk. Sorry. It's going to begin by intersecting with my navel gazing about Cody Rhodes. DOUBLE FUCKING SORRY.

One of the Cody-isms I was getting very into before he up and left and started working a schedule that exploded his tit was his insistence that heels and babyfaces are an antiquated concept, that there are heels, there are babyfaces, and there were stars who could be themselves and be plugged in against anyone and let the people do what they may. For as much as people think Punk was going somewhat heel last night, it's possible he's just being himself and letting the chips fall where they may depending on who he's facing.

<snip>

Since you brought this up, did you watch the clip of Omega addressing the crowd after Dynamite last night?

[Jiji]

11 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Given the way smart fans are going to rally around him though, CM Punk just did Adam Page the biggest favour anyone's done for him in literal years.

I like your post but come on now.

Edited August 18, 2022 by Jiji

[John from Cincinnati]

Just now, JLowe said:

Since you brought this up, did you watch the clip of Omega addressing the crowd after Dynamite last night?

I did. Thought it was keen of Matt Jackson to point out that the crowd had been booing them for quite a while. Keep things fluid, the Bucks and Kenny are meant to be stars. 

[John from Cincinnati]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

I like your post but come on now.

This could be "Daniel Bryan gets squashed in 30 seconds" level good if they play it right. I've planted my flag and I'm not budging. 

[Jiji]

1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This could be "Daniel Bryan gets squashed in 30 seconds" level good if they play it right. I've planted my flag and I'm not budging. 

Maybe. But Page was a good prospect that most on here did not like or were just turning the corner on when AEW formed. Bucks and Omega stuff made him a world champ calibre star. 

I had edited my post and not sure if you saw it but I do agree with a hypothetical Punk & Co. vs. Hangman & Col (Hangman, Omega, Bucks vs. Punk, FTR & Wardlow for instance) would be fucking awesome and you could tell that story for a long time almost like a Jumbo/Misawa type of deal. FTR and Bucks have been subtweeting each other for a while now and they obviously are jockeying for best in the business/company. There's a lot to that spicy meatball.

[For Great Justice]

You know how Bischoff has always said that WCW needed a finish guy?

I think AEW needs a “how to bridge storylines” guy.

TK has told some outstanding stories, but man, so many of them leave one party or another completely out in the cold once it’s over. Hangman is in limbo. Baker, Shida, Miro (injury obviously came at an awful time), Death Triangle…

Its like he’s writing books sometimes, not chapters in a larger book. Someone needs to sit down with him at Vince’s pool for the sole purpose of asking “and then what?” every time they’re pitching something.

[chriskbrown50]

Punk as the frustrated gen Xer wrestler story continues.  

[John from Cincinnati]

6 minutes ago, Jiji said:

I had edited my post and not sure if you saw it but I do agree with a hypothetical Punk & Co. vs. Hangman & Col (Hangman, Omega, Bucks vs. Punk, FTR & Wardlow for instance) would be fucking awesome and you could tell that story for a long time almost like a Jumbo/Misawa type of deal. FTR and Bucks have been subtweeting each other for a while now and they obviously are jockeying for best in the business/company. There's a lot to that spicy meatball.

Tony doesn't strike me as the kind of booker to headline a PPV with an eight-man tag, but if there was ever a time/combination of eight guys...

Edit: Not All Out. I'm talking further down the road.

Edited August 18, 2022 by John from Cincinnati

[S.K.o.S.]

56 minutes ago, Jiji said:

lmao Fightful Select just posted this:

Quote

Voices of Wrestling had noted that they'd heard that Punk had told others after the meeting in May, that he wouldn't lose to Hangman Page.

I want to emphasize that if you listen to the VoW audio, apparently Punk said, in a polite way, that he would NEVER do a job for Page. Like "I think you're a great wrestler with a bright future, but you will not be beating me."

People can, of course, change their minds.

Quote

From Punk's end of things, the Hangman promo had alluded to Punk's issues with Colt Cabana

Like I said before, I think that is referring to this right here (although it doesn't line up with the "Punk was not in the building" part):

I will consider that this might be a work once there's more evidence of an actual Punk-Hangman program existing.

[Guest]

I wouldn't trust VOW, they usually make up stuff.

[Just Dave]

Yeah, I don't know why it would be hard for some people to believe that Punk was being a dick. "Takes himself too seriously" has always kind of been his MO. 

This is why, if this isn't a work, I sometimes pine for a simpler time in wrestling. I'm glad guys aren't working 300 days a year and killing themselves early with steroids and recreational drugs nearly as much, but 30-40 years ago if CM Punk had told Hangman Page he wasn't going to lose to him Hangman might've just kicked his ass, and I've long believed an ass kicking immediately after some of Punk's more petulant moments would do him a world of good...

[Krone]

You know, it would be really ironic if the guy (CM Punk) who's whole mission statement upon debuting was about the fresh young new stars AEW had that he couldn't wait to work with. However, if you do want to believe and go tin foil hat - I don't believe that Hangman Page was one of the names Punk ever mentioned. This could lead to a couple of thoughts.

A.) Punk really doesn't care if he works with Hangman
B.) Punk had the foresight to think about a scenario like this (which I doubt since it seems so convoluted)
C.) Punk just completely forgot about him

It does seem odd to me that if Punk has heat with somebody it's Adam Page of all people. By all accounts he is one of the nicest, just genuine guys out there. Not to mention (and idk if this would even matter) Hangman is very outspoken on a lot of political stuff that him and Punk seem to agree on which I'd have to imagine a guy like Punk respects. But this is pro wrestling, so who knows. The ABC above would lead me to think that it's a shoot, but outside of that context I just don't see any reason why Punk would hate Page or refuse to EVER do a job to him. Does Punk think he's 2022 Hulk Hogan "that doesn't work for me brother"? I just can't buy it, him and Khan seem to be like two peas in a pod too much for him to be disgruntled here like he was back in WWE.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

I just can't buy it, him and Khan seem to be like two peas in a pod too much for him to be disgruntled here like he was back in WWE.

It's still the wrestling business and it's still work. Someone will always be disgruntled and someone's always going to rub someone else the wrong way. It's like gravity, and AEW doesn't exist outside of that force.

Now of course it's Punk, so the Raylan Givens "asshole in the morning" principle is always in play.