AEW - SEPTEMBER 2023

[Just Dave]

Keep in mind, Ricky has talked openly about harboring a lot of bad feelings towards wwe for their treatment of him at the outset of the pandemic. I think he probably stays in AEW. I can’t imagine wwe valuing him more than AEW does. But he does have the worst luck ever as it pertains to people he’s feuding with. He should probably get the pin on Danielson next week and take the OC belt off of Mox. 

[Eivion]

I have trouble seeing Jade jump. She didn't want to go through the PC/NXT and wants more time with her kids. I doubt enough has changed on either side for her to join.

6 minutes ago, just drew said:

Keep in mind, Ricky has talked openly about harboring a lot of bad feelings towards wwe for their treatment of him at the outset of the pandemic.

How did they treat him? I thought he only ever did enhancement work for them.

[Elsalvajeloco]

23 minutes ago, Eivion said:

I have trouble seeing Jade jump. She didn't want to go through the PC/NXT and wants more time with her kids. I doubt enough has changed on either side for her to join.

She has more than one child? 

[SirFozzie]

With CM Punk ruining his spot multiple times with AEW, I'm trying to think of who else has tanked their career so spectacularly for stuff in the business, or just demanding too much.

 

Here's who I came up with: 

 

1) Thunderbolt Patterson thinking that he was bringing a ton of people into Ann Gunkel's "outlaw" promotion, demanding not only a contract raise, but an ownership share in Ann Gunkel's company, or he'd make things bad for them racially. (someone pulled a gun on him, and he was fired on the spot)

2) The Grappler was big in Mid-South and quit because he couldn't get a big contract, and never hit the same level elsewhere

3) Of course, Al Perez planning to shoot on Ric Flair, win the NWA title and hold it for ransom for a huge contract, (and was doubly stupid by apparently confirming it openly to Kevin Sullivan and Gary Hart), Hart no-showed to avoid trouble (he managed Perez), they used that fact that Gary Hart was not there for a reason to not have the match, and had Doug Dellinger pull him out of the ring and fired him on the spot.

 

Anyone else? Of course, there's outside the business stuff like the sleaze thread, Velveteen Dream, etcetera...

Edited September 14, 2023 by SirFozzie

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

2 minutes ago, SirFozzie said:

Anyone else? Of course, there's outside the business stuff like the sleaze thread, Velveteen Dream, etcetera...

Punk's probably more on the Ultimate Warrior scale than those folks, minus the weird bigotry and tangents about destrucity.

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

Punk's probably more on the Ultimate Warrior scale than those folks, minus the weird bigotry and tangents about destrucity.

I feel like because of that (the bigotry more so than creating his own words) Warrior needs his own scale.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I feel like because of that (the bigotry more so than creating his own words) Warrior needs his own scale.

"This neon-colored shithead"?

[(BP)]

Honkytonk Man could’ve easily been one of those WCW cases where he slips through the cracks and gets paid stupid money to work a handful of C-shows a year, or even just sits at home and hopes no one notices he’s still on payroll. Instead he irritated Bischoff and burned his bridge with Hogan by trying to do business like it was 1987. He never even got signed to a proper contract at a time when anyone who’d worked for Titan in the past decade was almost guaranteed a deal. Knowing your worth goes both ways. 

[SirFozzie]

Actually, I just realized that he screwed NWA twice within three years, first by attempting to shoot on Flair ('88), and then again in '90 when he quit in the middle of the Black Scorpion angle. Just full on career immolation.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, SirFozzie said:

Actually, I just realized that he screwed NWA twice within three years, first by attempting to shoot on Flair ('88), and then again in '90 when he quit in the middle of the Black Scorpion angle. Just full on career immolation.

I just watch the Mountain Madness Clash of the Champions so I know the Black Scorpion story. Never heard about shooting on Flair.

[Eivion]

43 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

She has more than one child? 

No idea. I think used the plural just out of habit. 

[SirFozzie]

1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I just watch the Mountain Madness Clash of the Champions so I know the Black Scorpion story. Never heard about shooting on Flair.

Gary Hart told the story in his autobiography:

 

Eventually, I pushed for Al Perez to get a run with NWA Champion Ric Flair. Dusty booked a couple of matches between them, and things started off well until Kevin Sullivan  approached me with a serious issue.

‘We have a potential problem,’ Kevin said. ‘Al told me he’s planning to stretch Ric and take his belt during his match at the Bayfront Arena in St. Petersburg, Florida.’ I figured Al must have been kidding around and that Kevin took him seriously, so I brushed it off. But, to be sure, I asked Al if he really said that. To my disbelief, Al confirmed it. ‘Ric can’t wrestle, and I can,’ he told me. ‘The Bayfront Arena will be the perfect place to do it. I’ll take that belt from him, and if they want it back, they can give me a big fat contract.’

That was Al’s mindset, and I couldn’t talk him out of it, no matter how hard I tried. His taking Ric’s belt was non-negotiable, and it put me in a real bind. I was always loyal to my talent- but there’s a limit.

Al Perez was looking to sabotage an NWA World Title match that I fought for him to get. I knew I had to do what was right for the business, so I told Al that I couldn’t be a part of his scheme. Then, I found Kevin and confirmed what Al had told him. Kevin told me not to show up at the Bayfront Arena for their match and that the office would handle it. I obviously wasn’t there that night, but from what I understand, Al entered the ring, and his whole family was there. He was a Florida boy, and the Cuban community turned out to support him. As he stood in the ring, Doug Dellinger, the head of security, went down and told him to get out of the ring. It was then announced that there was a clause in the contract that said that I had to be in Al’s corner, or the contract wasn’t valid, and since I wasn’t there, the match couldn’t go on. They finally got Al out of the ring. Eddie Gilbert came in to wrestle Ric that night, and they fired Al on the spot.

Al called me as soon as he got home, wondering why I didn’t show up, adding, ‘I thought we were partners.’

‘Yes, we were partners,’ I said. ‘However, I didn’t condone what you wanted to do, and I made that very clear with you. I’m sorry you lost your job, and if there’s anything I can do to help you in the future, please don’t hesitate to let me know.’

We left it at that and went our separate ways. It was an unfortunate ending to a great partnership."

Oh, he then burned his bridge in WWF in 1993 when he claimed Pat Patterson propositioned him (apparently he said that Perez could "go both ways" (ie, heel or face), and attacked Patterson physically.

 

Just self-inflicted multiple-time career immolations.

[Go2Sleep]

There's no shortage of successful bigoted wrestlers and promoters, so I don't think that's what did Warrior in. Punk is an extremely weird case of being the least successful politician ever. Every time he tried to go into business for himself, it backfired. Probably why he resents HHH so much.

Low Ki stands out as someone with a ton of talent who seemed to piss people off everywhere he went.

Jarrett burned some bridges in WWE and WCW, but he eventually got his own promotion to be a big fish in a small pond.

Flair was pretty lucky that he had a decade of success behind him before hand, because whoa man did he get out-maneuvered horribly once Hogan went down south.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

15 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

Flair was pretty lucky that he had a decade of success behind him before hand, because whoa man did he get out-maneuvered horribly once Hogan went down south.

I always felt that the treatment of Flair by WCW post-Hogan was pretty egregious given that Flair was the one who went down to FL with Bischoff to convince him to come. Even the least booking-minded fan could tell you it was bad both business-wise and creatively to have Hogan go over on him on PPV THREE TIMES in the back half of '94. Like yeah, no shit Halloween Havoc was having trouble drawing, you absolute nincompoops

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 hours ago, Eivion said:

No idea. I think used the plural just out of habit. 

You had me scared there for a second. I thought there was just some kid left home alone while their younger and likely more adorable sibling got all the shine at the AEW shows.

Yes, I'm a middle child.

[Elsalvajeloco]

32 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

There's no shortage of successful bigoted wrestlers and promoters, so I don't think that's what did Warrior in. Punk is an extremely weird case of being the least successful politician ever. Every time he tried to go into business for himself, it backfired. Probably why he resents HHH so much.

I can probably sit here and think of like ten guys who probably not successful if I really thought about it. In 2002, if someone told me CM Punk would have parlayed his wrestling career into this much attention (positive and negative), I would thought they were gaslighting me. There are guys who set torches to their career trying to play politics before they ever got out of the gates. Punk is a case where the dynamics of wrestling have changed so much that you cannot have a certain politician backstage anymore in environments constantly being monitored.

Jarrett made so much money throughout his career and was allowed to volley back and forth despite being in the mid card that should merit calling him a success.

As for Low Ki, for someone who rubs people the wrong way, he never stopped working AFAIK. Maybe he has deep connections, but I don't know if he just completely fell off the map and outside relative to the WWE space.

[Eivion]

9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You had me scared there for a second. I thought there was just some kid left home alone while their younger and likely more adorable sibling got all the shine at the AEW shows.

Yes, I'm a middle child.

Sorry about that. I'm the youngest of four.

If she did have more than one you have to keep in mind it could always be a case of who is more interested or even just old enough. Jun Kasai has brought both of his kids to Stardom show, but I don't think at the same time due to difference ages and interests. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I always felt that the treatment of Flair by WCW post-Hogan was pretty egregious given that Flair was the one who went down to FL with Bischoff to convince him to come. Even the least booking-minded fan could tell you it was bad both business-wise and creatively to have Hogan go over on him on PPV THREE TIMES in the back half of '94. Like yeah, no shit Halloween Havoc was having trouble drawing, you absolute nincompoops

Flair's issue was always going to be two fold even if he was well intentioned trying to help get Hogan into WCW. His problem for much of his post JCP NWA/WCW runs were he was INHERITED. He's like a star QB you can never cut because he is the pride of the city for what he is accomplished there. You can bench him once his play slips below a certain level, but cutting him is absolutely out of the question. He would have to quit or walk away somehow. He's basically a less arrogant and probably infinitely more likeable Aaron Rodgers except Rodgers to his credit won one Super Bowl. At no point was a Flair led promotion going to match or exceed WWF during the height of the expansion. A lot of it is no fault of his own, but wrestlers much like players don't get escape blame from armchair quarterbacks and also in this case the promoters/bookers.

Herd tried to get him out of there early on. IMO I think Bischoff has a good deal of respect for Flair but to an obvious extent. Flair was able to be the life support that kept the promotion having a stable pulse to where you couldn't pull the plug yet. Hogan, for whatever you think of him, was able to get WCW off that life support, up, and walking around with vitality. He was going to get the lionshare of the credit even if it was TOO much. Bischoff was never going to get Flair that much leverage when Flair's prime years as a draw happened before Bischoff was even just a low level announcer for WCW. Everyone wants to draft their own franchise QB especially if they have a win now mentality. Bischoff was and (based on 83 Weeks) still is the ULTIMATE win now guy. He is giving up all the future 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks just so he can move up to #1 overall or get a big name free agent just so he can win immediately. Who gave him more of a chance to do that? Hogan or Flair? Flair had no chance backstage.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Sorry about that. I'm the youngest of four.

If she did have more than one you have to keep in mind it could always be a case of who is more interested or even just old enough. Jun Kasai has brought both of his kids to Stardom show, but I don't think at the same time due to difference ages and interests. 

Awesome. You gave me an excuse to post this.

Spoiler

I think SLK did this on purpose just cause she knows Jun's daughter supposedly likes SLK. However, based on this absolute no sell, either Jun doesn't know what his kid likes OR she was absolutely terrified. Given that she is Jun Kasai's daughter, the fact THIS could terrify her and not seeing her dad be gashed opened on a regular basis makes wonder her sense of normalcy is at such a young age.

 

[SirFozzie]

Actually, Tessa Blanchard's shithouosery set her career on fire, didn't it? She might be up with those three I mentioned

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, SirFozzie said:

Actually, Tessa Blanchard's shithouosery set her career on fire, didn't it? She might be up with those three I mentioned

She is still only 28. Her (biological) dad was a perpetual fuck up until he was in his late 40s. Pace yourself.

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, (BP) said:

It’s unfortunate Red Velvet has been plagued with injuries because her beating Jade is a Finish the Story if I’ve ever seen one. 

Velvet's early babyface run wasn't for me, I especially hated her awful finish, but the short lived heel act was a perfect fit for her. It only needed time. I was bummed when she returned shortly and seemed to be a babyface again. Her whole energy reads heel to me. That said, I once saw her interviewed by Rosa, and she seemed like a really sweet person. Total real life babyface vibes, but definitely a heel on screen. On the subject of former Baddies going over, I would have preferred to see Leila Grey get the big win on Cargill. A win to announce 'here's the new boss'. Give her some baddies even. For those who have missed her ROH work, Grey's come a long way. She may be still a bit green, but better than some of the repeat performers currently on Turner stations. I wouldn't be surprised to see her make a big splash in the next year. 

[HarryArchieGus]

3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

She is still only 28. Her (biological) dad was a perpetual fuck up until he was in his late 40s. Pace yourself.

Tully breaking onto the scene in this same time frame would've rendered similar, likely worse results. Imagine a world with no Tully Blanchard matches? Awful! I'm inclined to forgive, and hope Ms. Blanchard cleans up her act well enough to find an opportunity to showcase her clear talent on a regular basis. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Tully breaking onto the scene in this same time frame would've rendered similar, likely worse results. Imagine a world with no Tully Blanchard matches? Awful! I'm inclined to forgive, and hope Ms. Blanchard cleans up her act well enough to find an opportunity to showcase her clear talent on a regular basis. 

She always can say her dad baptized her, and she gave herself over to the Lord. That's always an out!

Now that said, the fact post being saved Tully Blanchard on Arn's podcast said of his 1989 drug test failure in WWF that if he got busted for that little amount of cocaine in his system that he might as well have done a whole bunch tells you where Tessa Blanchard is coming from. It's even made better by the fact Arn's expression doesn't change at all even though this man cost him his job in WWF and helped fuck him over getting back to the NWA. He knows clearly that Tully is Tully and you cannot do shit about it.

[BrianS81177]

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/report-prince-nana-signs-multi-180352705.html

He's in the mon-ey, he's in the mon-ey...

Seriously I'm so glad to see this. Nana is an absolute joy to watch.

Edited September 14, 2023 by BrianS81177