AEW/ROH Finances, Ratings, etc.

[EVA]

I saw someone posit that Max may have caught the regular AEW viewers who didn’t have TBS and were watching on pirated streams, VPN, etc. Seems plausible.

[Niners Fan in CT]

29 minutes ago, username said:

Yeah but... by most metrics WWE is hot right now (gestures at attendance, ticker prices, etc.) and Netflix is clearly a bigger streaming platform than the former HBO Max; there does not appear to have been a huge shift in terms of their audience expanding thanks to moving Raw to there.

RAW was doing under 2 million some weeks on USA.  Now it's (reportedly) doing close to 3 million some weeks from what I read.  That would be a very significant jump. Also,  I don't know if those Netflix numbers are Live or Live+24 or Live+3-Day  etc..   

The thing with streamers is they rarely report anything and when they do it's all different types of data points of their choosing,  not something universal.. 

[odessasteps]

It would also have made sense if people chose Max over Turner, and streaming went up and cable went down. But not the numbers as they have been presented.. 

[just drew]

On 3/31/2025 at 9:44 PM, odessasteps said:

It seems like a very high number, esp since it appears there’s so much vocal dissatisfaction with the main event program. 

Yeah, but where? A few redditors who already weren’t watching the show? 

[just drew]

FTR, I’ve never fully believed that only 575k people were watching AEW. I think those numbers are less reliable than people realize. It’s not hard for me to buy that 300k or so people are also watching on Max. I know I cut cable 2 years ago but have been faithfully watching AEW programming on Max since 1/1. I guess my only reason to question the report it; if they are doing numbers like that, where is the additional programming? The ROH deal? The Max original shows about the women wrestlers & luchadores & whatever else? It feels like WBD would be moving to capitalize.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I dont know the answer to the viewership question. But even if viewership is up and taken at face value let's say 1million a week... it's not translating to ticket sales. PPVs still do realllyyyy well. But the tv audience is awful. 2k-3k for Dynamite and what like 1500 for Collision?

That's why the numbers are a little bit of a tough sell. Even if people are watching, people aren't excited enough by what they see to buy tickets and go to the TVs. That's a problem.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think it'd be unfair to say they are only doing 2,000 a show for Dynamite considering those are the size arenas they've been booking for the past 6 months. Listen,  when you are doing 140,000 buys on PPVs at $50/pop and selling 11K+ on those shows,  as well as doing nearly 700k on TBS alone (without Max),  I think it's fair to say the company is doing pretty well right now.  

Even if the 500k number on Max is "high" they are at 700k damn near on TBS alone.  Max has over 50 million subs in the U.S. alone (which is way more than Peacock by the way) so why is it so hard to believe they are over a million weekly?  They'd need roughly ~300k to get there.  Not impossible IMO.  

[Technico Support]

I would love for 1) both companies to go full streaming, no TV and 2) for everyone to concede @Niners Fan in CT’s point that we can never have accurate streaming numbers.  Between the bad faith tribalists twisting the numbers to match their narratives, and aspie androids like Dave who just can’t help it, I’m so tired of this late 90s style obsession with ratings.

Edited April 2 by Technico Support

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

8 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I would love for 1) both companies to go full streaming, no TV and 2) for everyone to concede @Niners Fan in CT’s point that we can never have accurate streaming numbers.  Between the bad faith tribalists twisting the numbers to match their narratives, and aspie androids like Dave who just can’t help it, I’m so tired of this late 90s style obsession with ratings.

So with streaming there is the possibility to get accurate numbers, but the companies are under no incentive to make that information public unless advertisers push for some form of government regulation, which 1) HA! and 2) would get quickly obfuscated considering how the TV ratings were always estimations than actual numbers and there was never a push to clarify those.

Unless you're a stockholder of an involved company (either a streamer, an advertiser, or a content provider), the data is really of little use anyway outside of giving analyst nerds something to talk about on their podcasts and perceived dunk lines about why Brand X is better than Brand Y.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Wasn't a big part of the Hollywood writer's strike due to streaming services not releasing good/accurate numbers or numbers at all?   I didn't want this to turn into a debate about the accuracy of the latest report.  It just made me think that since Dynamite is still holding strong on TBS,  it makes me believe that whatever they are doing on Max (and with Dave saying that people within WBD directly are "happy"),  that AEW is in a pretty good position right now. 

The reason why that's important is because for a few months there AEW was looking in steep decline.  I think the interest in the overall product has gone up.  

Edited April 2 by Niners Fan in CT

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Wasn't a big part of the Hollywood writer's strike due to streaming services not releasing good/accurate numbers or numbers at all?

It was, but that's because services were fudging numbers to prevent writers from being paid accordingly, not because the numbers are impossible to get. Shocking, I know, that people wanted to keep a larger slice of the pie for themselves by screwing people over!

I've built platforms and can tell you that you can get numbers to the second. I've also worked with platforms and gotten my analytics on those platforms, again, to the second. The numbers exist; there's just no reason to release them unless you want to make money from them.

[odessasteps]

Hollywood is the place where the WB accountants made the 1989 Batman lose money to keep Jack from getting his money/points. 

[Technico Support]

30 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Hollywood is the place where the WB accountants made the 1989 Batman lose money to keep Jack from getting his money/points. 

Yep!  Reading @Stefanie Sparkleface’s post, Hollywood Accounting was the first thing I thought of.  There are blockbusters that have somehow never made a dime.

[Niners Fan in CT]

36 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Hollywood is the place where the WB accountants made the 1989 Batman lose money to keep Jack from getting his money/points. 

They also said the Harry Potter movies were losing money.  Hollywood will always be full of complete shit. 

[username]

On 4/1/2025 at 10:19 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

RAW was doing under 2 million some weeks on USA.  Now it's (reportedly) doing close to 3 million some weeks from what I read.

It was doing those number on USA network in the USA; the Netflix numbers you are quoting are the global ones. When broken down to just the US figures it is roughly the same as it was before.

EDIT: I do wonder if Max is just capturing some more global viewers who are using VPN shenanigans, but I wouldn't assume that to be a particularly large figure.

Edited April 3 by username

[Niners Fan in CT]

Well Tony Khan told Jon Alba today that he doesn't receive numbers from WBD but that the numbers reported are in line with what he's heard and that WBD has told him Dynamite is one of their best performing sports programming events (They also stream baseball, hockey, college basketball, NBA, golf, tennis and some other stuff).  

[Kevin Wilson]

6 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Well Tony Khan told Jon Alba today that he doesn't receive numbers from WBD but that the numbers reported are in line with what he's heard and that WBD has told him Dynamite is one of their best performing sports programming events (They also stream baseball, hockey, college basketball, NBA, golf, tennis and some other stuff).  

I do love TK in the same breath saying he doesn't receive the numbers but the numbers he's heard are similar to what was reported. Heard from where? WBD, his partner and allegedly minority owner of AEW, doesn't tell him stuff but someone within WBD leaks him stuff? He's funny.

[odessasteps]

He can just say Dave told him.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I get the hesitancy here about the numbers but do you all really believe this journalist was paid off by Tony Khan to report these numbers in order to paint AEW's viewership as strong and healthy?  Why?  Why would the journalist go for it?  Why would they stop at the 500k number?  Why not 600k?  

I'm not saying anyone here believes this conspiracy theory but that's what I've seen on some circles of the internet.  I love conspiracy theories as much as anyone (so long as they are completely harmless) but I am finding that one hard to believe.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

18 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I do love TK in the same breath saying he doesn't receive the numbers but the numbers he's heard are similar to what was reported. Heard from where? WBD, his partner and allegedly minority owner of AEW, doesn't tell him stuff but someone within WBD leaks him stuff? He's funny.

He's clearly in on the act and become somewhat self aware.

There was a call for I forget which PPV or w/e where someone brought up (really, fantasy booked) a match happening and he answered it in a way where it made it seem like he was just a press secretary for AEW and not the goddamn booker. He answered in such a way where Tony Khan had to get approval from Tony Khan for the match to happen. He's messing with people now.

[Technico Support]

The idea that TK knows the numbers but is fucking around with the IWC equivalent of the Qanon crowd fills me with joy.  There are people who think TK is paying people to watch.  Anything to make them more miserable, I say.

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

41 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

The idea that TK knows the numbers but is fucking around with the IWC equivalent of the Qanon crowd fills me with joy.  There are people who think TK is paying people to watch.  Anything to make them more miserable, I say.

That's how you know you've made it, when you've triggered your own section of conspiracies.

[Niners Fan in CT]

What would need to happen for people to believe the numbers?   WBD could release numbers tomorrow and people would just say "bah streamers are always cooking the books! I don't believe this!"  

Maybe any type of viewership talking points should cease to exist?  But they won't.. 

[Kevin Wilson]

9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What would need to happen for people to believe the numbers?   WBD could release numbers tomorrow and people would just say "bah streamers are always cooking the books! I don't believe this!"  

Maybe any type of viewership talking points should cease to exist?  But they won't.. 

I know you are using a general 'people' but yea I'd be fine with WBD releasing it and trusting it. I trust Netflix's numbers on RAW. There will always be the crazies in every fandom that believe nothing but I think most normal people would trust the broadcaster. 

[just drew]

AEW certainly got paid like a successful content creator. It’s not hard for me to believe at all that wbd believes AEW is a popular, sought after property.

 

To me, the biggest sign that AEW is on the upswing and gaining popularity is how aggressive WWE has gotten in their counter programming. They schedule specials on the same weekend as AEW PPV’s. They have those deals with arenas where if they book a WWE event they can’t run any other wrestling company for a certain period of time. And does anyone believe it’s coincidence that after weeks of rumors that AEW Shockwave was going to be on Tubi, that a WWE affiliated product just happens to show up there? WWE is playing hardball, which they never did with tna or Ring of honor.