Tiller Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Everybody is talking about how LeBron and the Heat are coasting, but they still have a really good record. And people talking about how well the Thunder are doing even with Westbrook missing games should also keep in mind that Wade is sitting out like every other game because of his knee issues. So they're coasting with Wade missing like half of their games and LeBron is coasting, and they're still beating teams. I agree that Durant is having a career year, but basketball is also not just about who is the best scorer. Coasting LeBron is still a much better defender than Durant, and LeBron is still averaging really good numbers at a ridiculously efficient level. He is still the best player on the planet and easily the most valuable player. I mean, that's what MVP stands for, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think we covered Heat's record in a very, very weak conference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiller Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They're 20-10 against the East. They're 10-2 against the West. If anything, their record is hurt more by games in the weak conference because those are the games they're coasting in. They don't care about beating the Bobcats and the Bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 As of right now, Durant is having a better season. It's true. His supporting cast has stepped up a lot, but he's also playing against some immense competition and is picking up a lot of the slack from Westbrook being out and he's not struggling by any, any, any means. Call it coasting or pacing, and pacing probably is a better word for Lebron, but Lebron is not playing at his usual level and while you say he's still having a "Lebron" year, well what do you call Durant for having a better year SO FAR. Also, bringing up Robinson over Hakeem. Hakeem was FIFTH in voting so it's not like it was close. When Jordan lost to Barkley, he was third in voting (still weird to think about). When Jordan lost to Malone, it was by less than 30 points. I don't see voter fatigue for Lebron not winning over Derrick Rose when DWIGHT HOWARD ended up in second place and Derrick Rose more than doubled Lebron's points. The whole Hakeem being 5th in the 94-95 MVP voting really makes us trying discuss this shit logically a mute point. Hakeem was always better than Robinson, and in 94-95 he was probably the best basketball player in the world. I hate that we have to act like we have to reward people with awards that they didn't earn just because it is "their turn." Shouldn't we just give the award to the best player? I don't see how anyone can make a logical argument against LeBron, he is just that much better than everyone else, that is with Durant playing at a level that is out of this world. LeBron has to do more than anyone else for his team to be successful, and he does it with a supporting cast that is so fucking inconsistent. Have you guys watched them play on Wade's days off? He leads the team in points, rebounds, and assists, while making sure everyone stays involved while taking the hardest defensive assingment. He is the MVP because a team that has 3 all-stars on it wouldn't make the playoffs without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 They're 20-10 against the East. They're 10-2 against the West. If anything, their record is hurt more by games in the weak conference because those are the games they're coasting in. They don't care about beating the Bobcats and the Bucks. THIS....I did not know. That's both really impressive and really sad at the same time. And of all years to say it in, saying the Heat wouldn't make the playoffs this year without Lebron is just laughable. Without Durant, OKC could still make the playoffs this year, but it'd be pretty hard for them. Without Lebron, the Heat would surely make the playoffs. The overreaching problem is the inability to see past Lebron. Has he been the best player in the league for however many years? YES. Is he the best player this year? NO. Durant's run recently is something Lebron hasn't come close to this year. Can he? Sure. Will he? Possibly. Has he? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think in some cases though, I can understand giving the award to someone else when the "best player" kinda just plays like he always has. What I mean, is that, say in 92-93 when Barkley won it, it was because he elevated his game to another level and completely transformed a team into a contender. I believe that's a big reason D-Rose got it as well, in addition to Lebron having an "off" year. To me, the MVP is the guy that, if you took him away from his team, or took his stats away, the team would fall apart. The Heat would still be a contender without Lebron. Would OKC be a contender without Durant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I don't think the Heat would be a contender, but they definitely wouldn't be a scrub team fighting for an eighth seed in the playoffs whereas the Thunder would be absolutely nowhere without Durant who really does make his team better. Other than that, I agree wholeheartedly with your post, which said my point better than I've been trying to for ten pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When I see the Spurs sit guys out, it feels like they're pacing themselves. The Heat feel like a beaten up team hoping they'll be ok when the playoffs start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Mann Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Speaking of which, look who finally got that new toy he wanted for his birthday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When I see the Spurs sit guys out, it feels like they're pacing themselves. The Heat feel like a beaten up team hoping they'll be ok when the playoffs start. Heh, at least they aren't a disaster like the Mavs were when we rested Dirk last night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When I see the Spurs sit guys out, it feels like they're pacing themselves. The Heat feel like a beaten up team hoping they'll be ok when the playoffs start. Just curious--what is it about the situation makes you feel that way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimbra Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The Nets are the first team with sleeved jerseys that don't make them look like total weenises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 So the All-Star Starters have been announced West Back Court Curry Kobe Front Court Durant Love Griffin East Back Court Wade Irving Front Court James Melo George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 They really need to change it to where you have to play X number of games to be eligible. Kobe getting the start over Harden or Monta is shameful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfredoE Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Swaggy P should be in the All-Star game...AND at the rate everyone is getting hurt, that might happen. EDIT: Also this is interesting... Mike Bresnahan (from the LA Times) If Kobe plays in All-Star game, he says it's because he doesn't want a 2-game penalty from the NBA. So he'll play for 2 minutes. Assuming Kobe's healthy for that weekend, I guess that's the other rule thrown in that if you're healthy you have to play the ASG now. Kobe mentioned fans should have voted for the younger guys a few weeks ago since he had only played 5-6 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Here's a thought Kobe DONT COME BACK TILL AFTER THE BRAKE! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfredoE Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The way the season has turned out, I wouldn't be shocked if he doesn't. There's going to be like 30 games after the break, might as well just stay out until after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 When I see the Spurs sit guys out, it feels like they're pacing themselves. The Heat feel like a beaten up team hoping they'll be ok when the playoffs start. Just curious--what is it about the situation makes you feel that way? Because the Spurs spread the rest around and nobody even plays huge minutes when someone sits out. The Heat sit Wade and play LeBron to death. Bosh is a complete afterthought but he constantly now is physically overmatched at center and no one really cares to see if he's worn down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Lebron lost that season because he and the other two were figuring out how to play together. The whole "whose team is it?" shit. He'd defer a lot to Wade, and it seemed like they were trying to make eachother happy and not step on eachother's toes. Once he took over the following year, it was clear he was The Man, because he not only had amazing stats, but he was actually making teammates play better. Which makes him better than Kobe ever was, frankly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'm so surprised Chris Paul didn't get voted. I know he's injured currently and he's not on Kobe's level of popularity, but still. Also, the Nets jerseys look like second-rate ref shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 They're 20-10 against the East. They're 10-2 against the West. If anything, their record is hurt more by games in the weak conference because those are the games they're coasting in. They don't care about beating the Bobcats and the Bucks. THIS....I did not know. That's both really impressive and really sad at the same time. And of all years to say it in, saying the Heat wouldn't make the playoffs this year without Lebron is just laughable. Without Durant, OKC could still make the playoffs this year, but it'd be pretty hard for them. Without Lebron, the Heat would surely make the playoffs. The overreaching problem is the inability to see past Lebron. Has he been the best player in the league for however many years? YES. Is he the best player this year? NO. Durant's run recently is something Lebron hasn't come close to this year. Can he? Sure. Will he? Possibly. Has he? Nope. I don't think you understand how much LeBron does for the Heat. Kevin Durant is amazing, and I'm not trying to downplay how good he has been, but he just isn't as valuable as LeBron is for Miami. That Miami team is a bigger mess than I think people realize, and he is keeping them afloat despite them hoping against hope to actually get something from guys like Michael Beasly and Greg Oden in the playoffs. Wade is just about done as an elite level player, and who knows how much he has left as a player period. Bosh is great when he's at his best, but he is RARELY at his best. Everyone else on that team is below average, and more often than not they still get the job done. Durant is playing spectacularly with a group of pretty good professional basketball players, LeBron is playing with a guy with no knees, a guy who plays with no heart, and a group of cast offs and senior citizens that are trying to ride on his back to another championship. The Heat without LeBron are basically The Pips without Gladys Knight, the Thunder without Durant would basically be Earth, Wind, and Fire without Philip Bailey. Earth, Wind and Fire would still be a pretty good collection of talent, but The Pips are a group of back up singers without a front man. LeBron is more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 When I see the Spurs sit guys out, it feels like they're pacing themselves. The Heat feel like a beaten up team hoping they'll be ok when the playoffs start. Just curious--what is it about the situation makes you feel that way? Because the Spurs spread the rest around and nobody even plays huge minutes when someone sits out. The Heat sit Wade and play LeBron to death. Bosh is a complete afterthought but he constantly now is physically overmatched at center and no one really cares to see if he's worn down. I can see that, though I suspect LeBron doesn't want to take off any games. If he did, they'd accomodate him for sure. Ultimately, if LeBron leaves Miami though, it'll be because of the yeoman work load. He mentioned working harder in Miami than in Cleveland once, a while ago. It's probably a combination of on-court work plus juggling all those personalities. But he has to be looking at a part-timer in Wade, hot-and-cold guy in Bosh, soon to retire buddies in Battier and Haslem, not sure he can hold up dude in Oden, and may lose his mind cat in Beasley. That's taxing on the most patient of people. EDIT: bonus points to Supreme for the Earth, Wind, and Fire reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 By that reasoning then, who was more valuable to their team the year Rose won MVP - Lebron or Rose, because by that definition, it should be Rose and there should be no complaining. I'll give you that Wade is a no knees player who can probably deliver a good-to-great performance once a month at most and then could probably still deliver big in the playoffs. Without Lebron though, I think Bosh would step up a lot. Would he cover the load Lebron left? No. Would he make his teammates better? No, but I still think that the current Heat team minus Lebron is better than the curent Thunder team minus Durant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 By that reasoning then, who was more valuable to their team the year Rose won MVP - Lebron or Rose, because by that definition, it should be Rose and there should be no complaining. I'll give you that Wade is a no knees player who can probably deliver a good-to-great performance once a month at most and then could probably still deliver big in the playoffs. Without Lebron though, I think Bosh would step up a lot. Would he cover the load Lebron left? No. Would he make his teammates better? No, but I still think that the current Heat team minus Lebron is better than the curent Thunder team minus Durant. You are telling me that Chris Bosh, who started at center last night and some how scored 31 points without shooting a free throw, is who you want as the best player on a team. What happens when his jump shot is off, is he going to bang in the low post? What happens when a team's entire defense is designed to stop him? Is there anyone on the Heat who is as good as Ibaka or Reggie Jackson? Eventually some guy named Russell is coming back and I hear he's pretty good. Wade may come back soon...and be OK, maybe? That team doesn't win 35 games without LeBron, as the team is constructed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I didn't say that I WANTED Bosh as the best player on the team. I said I think he would step up a lot. Big difference. I know Wade's knees are bad and he's over the hill, but let's compare Westbrook to Wade please before you act like Westbrook is shoulders ahead of Wade: This year: basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_advanced.html Last year: basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_advanced.html And again, people thinking that the Heat wouldn't make the playoffs without Lebron and the Thunder would make the playoffs without Durant is just laughable. The Bobcats are the 8th seed. BOBCATS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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