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10 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:

Yes.

See this is the objective vs. subjective debate in a nutshell. I also think a lot of it has to do with how people feel about the material behind a certain performer's individual performances. Actually, all of it probably does. I can subjectively say that Udo Dirkschneider and King Diamond are the best singers of all time (and they are) but one's personal perspective is going to cloud that, especially due to the music backing their voices. 

(But yeah, fuck yeah, Ronnie James Fucking Dio fuckers)

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Well yeah, the fact that he fronted three (four if you count Heaven & Hell as a separate band) of my top twenty or so favorite bands of all-time clearly has an influence.

But he also absolutely had the chops to back it up.

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50 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Yeah I think we can close the book on the objective side of best vocalist as far as male singers go. Orbison is probably the only other argument and Freddie would probably step down himself in the face of that one. 

Subjective thinking though is nuts. For example: Guitar players. Do you really think I'm not gonna pick Tony Iommi, Pig Champion, or Dave Chandler over Alvin Lee? (sorry John)

No I don't think that at all, you certainly have every right to be wrong. ;-)

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Objective and subjective are interesting when it comes to any kind of art. For example, objectively Bob Dylan is the greatest singer/songwriter of all time. No other artist in that category has the discography or influence that Dylan has. Subjectively,  you might think that Nick Drake was better. Your personal taste doesn't mean that historical saying Dylan had a bigger impact.

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Objectively, I think you can argue for McCartney over Dylan. He might not have quite as much content, but his success is basically unparalleled in modern western pop music. Although it's partially bullshit because Lennon wrote some of them alone, Paul has officially written 32 #1 Billboard Top 100 hits. He's far and away the best selling artist of all-time in terms of albums, and he wrote a very large chunk of what's on those albums. Etc etc

Personally I prefer John or Dylan, but if we are going by purely objective standards, it's hard to argue against Sir Paul. *Shrug*

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It sounds like you’re judging McCartney based off financial success, while @KidNatural was likely basing it off artistic merit. I love the Beatles (and even Wings), and maybe this is an unpopular opinion, but as far as songwriters go - Dylan, in my mind, is the more influential artist. McCartney can put together a nice pop song with some catchy hooks, but Dylan is on another level that no one has even tried to reach yet.

Also, just to throw out another unpopular opinion because fuuuuck it: Dio’s vocal style is super corny to me. Y’all can complain about Dio or Priest or whoever not getting in - Radiohead not being included is shameful. If the RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS are in this thing, then way more influential bands like Radiohead, Depeche Mode, RATM and Nine Inch Nails need to inducted, pronto.

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I'll never understand Radiohead's appeal as long as I live.

McCartney and Lennon had a profound influence on Dylan (who in turn had a huge influence on Lennon and a lesser one on the rest of The Beatles) and The Beatles on a whole basically shaped the entirety of western pop music for a generation. I love Dylan, but I can't see a good argument for him being more influential than Lennon/McCartney, and it's hard to find one where he's more than Paul alone.

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if i have learned anything from this discussion, it's that any subject can turn into ESPN fodder with enough historical preservation, and that archival might be an unnatural and paradoxical process that is slowly destroying everyone's psyche as finding and holding onto Things gets more and more trivial

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I need more punk / hardcore.  Yes, I am aware of Converge.  What's the best punk and hardcore of 2017?  Recently I came across Brutus and Haram and loved both.  Last year someone suggested Slaves and I loved loved loved that album.  For some reason, my music searching method does not account for much good punk / hardcore.  The new Quicksand is really good too. 

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6 hours ago, Casey said:

Also, just to throw out another unpopular opinion because fuuuuck it: Dio’s vocal style is super corny to me. Y’all can complain about Dio or Priest or whoever not getting in - Radiohead not being included is shameful. If the RED HOT CHILI PEPPERS are in this thing, then way more influential bands like Radiohead, Depeche Mode, RATM and Nine Inch Nails need to inducted, pronto.

I think the difference is that Dio and Priest have been snubbed for years while the bands you listed haven't been eligible for nearly as long - there's no guarantee that Dio or Priest will ever get in, but this is Rolling Stone so it's a virtual guarantee that Radiohead will get in. RATM and NIN are shoo-ins as well. This may very well have been Radiohead's first eligible year, and RATM and NIN have both been eligible for less than five years. Dio and Priest have been snubbed for a decade plus.

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6 hours ago, Casey said:

Dio’s vocal style is super corny to me.

Oh, I can totally see that -- and I am actually listening to him sing right now. I have a close friend who is a total metalhead and yet cannot stand him at all. It's all personal aesthetics, and I like some pretty weird singers, as noted above. But you HAVE to give him all the other things noted: longevity, variety of style, etc. 

And then I write that and Broken Lamp comes in and crushes it 

2 hours ago, BL88 said:

archival might be an unnatural and paradoxical process that is slowly destroying everyone's psyche as finding and holding onto Things gets more and more trivial

Damn, dude. No fair. We just trying to have fun here...

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2 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

What's the best punk and hardcore of 2017?

Woof. I listen to a lot of hardcore punk so I can't point you in the directions of say, any poppier stuff aside from Masked Intruder, but check out the Bandcamps of

Rashomon 

Urchin

Negativ 

Fatigue 

Dissekerad

Rixe (fucking RIXE)

Dream Probe

Rat Cage

Absolut

Paranoid

Rata Negra

and of course the now notorious to BL88 Diagnosis? Bastard! 

off the top of my head and me looking what I've bought this year in my 7" collection. All of that is pretty varied and your experience might be the same. I have a hard lean towards D-beat but some of those are straight-up Oi bands. 

EDIT: This is fucking fantastic. And they are not pop punk like the reviewer says, they're just fucking punk. https://rata-negra.bandcamp.com/album/o-do-absoluto

EDIT II: Syndrome 81 are a great French Oi band with weird Joy Division type parts (yes I actually wrote that) https://syndrome81.bandcamp.com/

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10 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

Objectively, I think you can argue for McCartney over Dylan. He might not have quite as much content, but his success is basically unparalleled in modern western pop music. Although it's partially bullshit because Lennon wrote some of them alone, Paul has officially written 32 #1 Billboard Top 100 hits. He's far and away the best selling artist of all-time in terms of albums, and he wrote a very large chunk of what's on those albums. Etc etc

Personally I prefer John or Dylan, but if we are going by purely objective standards, it's hard to argue against Sir Paul. *Shrug*

My point was more about the singer/songwriter genre (Dylan, Simon, Prine, Drake et al) than about just general songwriting itself.

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8 hours ago, KidNatural said:

My point was more about the singer/songwriter genre (Dylan, Simon, Prine, Drake et al) than about just general songwriting itself.

Mega props to you for mentioning John Prine, I've been a fan since "Diamonds in the Rough" and he just keeps getting better (and that was a pretty high bar to start with.)

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On 12/16/2017 at 11:01 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Woof. I listen to a lot of hardcore punk so I can't point you in the directions of say, any poppier stuff aside from Masked Intruder, but check out the Bandcamps of

Rashomon 

Urchin

Negativ 

Fatigue 

Dissekerad

Rixe (fucking RIXE)

Dream Probe

Rat Cage

Absolut

Paranoid

Rata Negra

and of course the now notorious to BL88 Diagnosis? Bastard! 

off the top of my head and me looking what I've bought this year in my 7" collection. All of that is pretty varied and your experience might be the same. I have a hard lean towards D-beat but some of those are straight-up Oi bands. 

EDIT: This is fucking fantastic. And they are not pop punk like the reviewer says, they're just fucking punk. https://rata-negra.bandcamp.com/album/o-do-absoluto

EDIT II: Syndrome 81 are a great French Oi band with weird Joy Division type parts (yes I actually wrote that) https://syndrome81.bandcamp.com/

Ok let's see. 

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Me personally, as not a big Oi fan at all they just come off as a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the other sub-subgenres that get press. Catchy as hell, good vocals, variety of tempos, four songs and they're out. And they aren't shady assholes either. 

I swear I've already burned some Anxiety but I just got three records in the mail so that is gonna take priority for the moment

EDIT: Whelp, guess not, so this should be a fresh discovery

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https://lavidaesunmus.bandcamp.com/music

Here is your current and later complete hookup for punk. La Vida does not fuck around when they release something (I forgot about the Glam record they did that came out this year or last). And then there is stuff like Charge Ahead by Severed Head of State on there that is absolutely my most favorite music ever. 

And yeah, Anxiety rules.

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I need some suggestions on what Ike & Tina Turner albums to buy. Like, the more rock 'n roll, spaztastic type stuff. I'm watching that Rolling Stone doc on HBO, and she had a pretty killer version of Come Together, and I want more stuff from those two like that.

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16 hours ago, Casey said:

I need some suggestions on what Ike & Tina Turner albums to buy. Like, the more rock 'n roll, spaztastic type stuff. I'm watching that Rolling Stone doc on HBO, and she had a pretty killer version of Come Together, and I want more stuff from those two like that.

I have Working Together on vinyl and it's fucking amazingly great. Has a different Beatles cover even (Get Back)

Ike Turner was an abusive piece of shit, but good Christ could that man play the bass.

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