DylanWaco Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I would take that criticism more seriously if it wasn't in defense of a guy who has yet to work a single compelling heat section from the bottom or the top in NXT excluding bouts where he's in the ring against a guy we both regard as the best babyface in the WWE. Neville is basically Cody Rhodes with flashier highspots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 I'm not defending anyone, I'm saying you and me are so far apart in what we like we might as well be arguing Pro Wrestling vs. MMA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Except I do t think that's true. I enjoyed Pentagon v Arez as a mauling. There are hundreds of matches last year I preferred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted March 4, 2015 Share Posted March 4, 2015 Chairshots to the head and using broken glass as a weapon are automatic disqualifiers in my book. Voting for Neville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Pentagon Jr. looks really cool, but I've loved Neville's work over the last few months. He seems to be putting it all together, and I think he has the potential to be one of the best workers in the world if he continues improving. Neville gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I would take that criticism more seriously if it wasn't in defense of a guy who has yet to work a single compelling heat section from the bottom or the top in NXT excluding bouts where he's in the ring against a guy we both regard as the best babyface in the WWE. Neville is basically Cody Rhodes with flashier highspots. Can't take this seriously since you're also shitting on people calling Zayn the best babyface in the world in the Zayn/Hechicero thread. Spot the trolls early and your March will be much less stressful. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 That's a lie, which is worse than alleged trolling. In that very thread I said I thought Zayn was the best babyface in the WWE. Try harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Try harder like, actually remembering the context in which you said that? I have to qualify this be saying that I really liked Zayn last year, and I think he's better now than he's ever been. I also think he is the best babyface in the WWE, though it's worth noting that is a low hurdle to cross. Having said that I think he's probably trending toward becoming the most overrated wrestler in history at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I said flat out that he was the best face in the WWE, while also pointing out the WWE is weak on faces. Do you dispute that? I await your honest, fair minded response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You said something different than what Zayn's backers were saying, (world vs WWE) and then attempted to minimize it to argue against Zayn. Then in this thread you're touting it as if it were support of him to denigrate Neville, and now you're swimming upstream trying to cover for your own BS, so you double down on you saying something stupid like "WWE is weak on faces." (It's heels they're weak on. Have you even watched WWE?) Sorry you outed yourself so early in the tourney, troll. Bring better stuff next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlfredoE Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I count 59 broken arms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You said something different than what Zayn's backers were saying, (world vs WWE) and then attempted to minimize it to argue against Zayn. Then in this thread you're touting it as if it were support of him to denigrate Neville, and now you're swimming upstream trying to cover for your own BS, so you double down on you saying something stupid like "WWE is weak on faces." (It's heels they're weak on. Have you even watched WWE?) Sorry you outed yourself so early in the tourney, troll. Bring better stuff next year. This is a bizarre reaction, but I get that there are some people here who are so emotionally invested in NXT that they think any criticism of anyone on their roster is an attack on one of their real life friends. I see this with New Japan fetishists a well. It's unfortunate since I like both NXT and NJPW. I understand that your response was intended as a personal attack, and you aren't interested in engaging any argument I raise, but I will ask the question again, framing better this time - who are the good faces in WWE? For the record my argument has never been that Zayn is a bad face, who just happens to be the best of a shit field. My argument is that NXT in general, and Zayn in particular (or Neville for the purposes of this thread) benefit dramatically from how dire the rest of the U.S. wrestling landscape is. The booking in NXT is good. Zayn is very good, if not great as I have consistently said here and elsewhere (conveniently ignored by you for obvious reasons). But he is doing it in a wrestling universe where faces are rarely presented well at all, let alone with the sort of consistency and long term detail that Zayn has had. Zayn deserves credit for his performances, as do the NXT writers. But let's not pretend being the best babyface in the WWE, or the world for that matter, means the same thing now as it did in 1985. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Neville went from a guy I didn't care about to somebody I thought was pretty damn good this year. I still wish he got to have a true heel run in NXT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 What convoluted nonsense. You complain I don't engage you at the level you want, when the level you want is for me to dive into that word salad and pretend like you have a coherent argument somewhere in there. You don't. If you feel like formulating one, I'll consider responding to it. Go back to talking about how Neville "can't work a compelling heat section." There's got to be someone on the board who'll think you know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 You said something different than what Zayn's backers were saying, (world vs WWE) and then attempted to minimize it to argue against Zayn. Then in this thread you're touting it as if it were support of him to denigrate Neville, and now you're swimming upstream trying to cover for your own BS, so you double down on you saying something stupid like "WWE is weak on faces." (It's heels they're weak on. Have you even watched WWE?) Sorry you outed yourself so early in the tourney, troll. Bring better stuff next year. This is a bizarre reaction, but I get that there are some people here who are so emotionally invested in NXT that they think any criticism of anyone on their roster is an attack on one of their real life friends. I see this with New Japan fetishists a well. It's unfortunate since I like both NXT and NJPW. I understand that your response was intended as a personal attack, and you aren't interested in engaging any argument I raise, but I will ask the question again, framing better this time - who are the good faces in WWE? For the record my argument has never been that Zayn is a bad face, who just happens to be the best of a shit field. My argument is that NXT in general, and Zayn in particular (or Neville for the purposes of this thread) benefit dramatically from how dire the rest of the U.S. wrestling landscape is. The booking in NXT is good. Zayn is very good, if not great as I have consistently said here and elsewhere (conveniently ignored by you for obvious reasons). But he is doing it in a wrestling universe where faces are rarely presented well at all, let alone with the sort of consistency and long term detail that Zayn has had. Zayn deserves credit for his performances, as do the NXT writers. But let's not pretend being the best babyface in the WWE, or the world for that matter, means the same thing now as it did in 1985. I honestly think the issue is that all of your compliments are back handed. It sounds like you are calling Sami the skinniest chick at fat camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Somebody's getting trolled, but I'm not sure who anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 What convoluted nonsense. You complain I don't engage you at the level you want, when the level you want is for me to dive into that word salad and pretend like you have a coherent argument somewhere in there. You don't. If you feel like formulating one, I'll consider responding to it. Go back to talking about how Neville "can't work a compelling heat section," (are you criticizing his selling or are you unaware of what those words mean?) There's got to be someone on the board who'll think you know what you're talking about. I get it. You are an emotional cripple, incapable of interacting with other humans in a civil fashion. You are too cowardly to address a direct question because you know it will expose you as both a liar and a fraud. Earlier I implored you to try harder. Now I see that was a waste. You can't do better. This is all you have. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 ...so I think Neville is actually really good fighting from underneath against a bigger guy. He looks like he's really having to survive out there before he can use his athleticism to hit big moves and turn things around. I think him against Owens was a great example of this, but Rusev killing him earlier this year was also awesome, and even that Baron Corbin match was surprisingly decent when it would have otherwise been a train wreck with almost anyone else because of Neville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I get it. You are an emotional cripple, incapable of interacting with other humans in a civil fashion. You are too cowardly to address a direct question because you know it will expose you as both a liar and a fraud. Earlier I implored you to try harder. Now I see that was a waste. You can't do better. This is all you have. Totally not a troll, folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Wrestling needs more Pentagon Jr. types.....true asskickers that are believable in their gimmicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thecubsfan Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Almost no luchador is going to advance if simply judged by singles match; definitely no AAA one since they're lucky to get 2 of those on TV a year. Pentagon was good in trios, tho' And three way debut was probably his best match in Lucha Underground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DylanWaco Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 ...so I think Neville is actually really good fighting from underneath against a bigger guy. He looks like he's really having to survive out there before he can use his athleticism to hit big moves and turn things around. I think him against Owens was a great example of this, but Rusev killing him earlier this year was also awesome, and even that Baron Corbin match was surprisingly decent when it would have otherwise been a train wreck with almost anyone else because of Neville. The last time I thought he was legit good in that role with his consistency was when he was working in tags. I will grant there are times I think he's good, and I think he may be getting better at certain things, but I still don't think he knows how to control a person from the top in an interesting fashion, nor do I think he sells very well when working underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think his selling is a definite point against him. I don't know that he's consistently convincing. He doesn't have the best facial expressions or sell exhaustion as well as he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 I think that's a valid criticism with Neville. He struggles to engage the fans in believing he's getting his ass kicked and is in serious trouble. I think his improvement since shortly before losing the title is best illustrated in his ability to look convincing in a position of dominance. There's a newfound intensity in his work when he's on the offensive that just wasn't there earlier in 2014, particularly during the Kidd feud. He's also improved at pacing each of his bigger spots to make them more meaningful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted March 5, 2015 Share Posted March 5, 2015 Neville's the man and one of my favorite parts of NXT for sure, always a highlight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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