Lawsuits, Fighter Pay, and Drug Tests: Tibau Fails Post Fight Drug Test In Addition to OoC Test

[Elsalvajeloco]

http://www.mmafighting.com/2015/9/14/9327767/nick-diaz-opens-old-wounds-on-a-dark-day-in-his-career

[ArtVanderlay]

He's 32 years of age, and he's suspended from competing for five years? Hope he likes running a cash register at Walmart.

 

Fixed that for you.

[Jingus]

For Nick, or anyone else really, they're not taking huge hits off a vaporizer bag 5 minutes before the fight, so what is the difference between smoking up weeks away from the fight and drinking some glasses of wine or other alcoholic beverage weeks away from a fight?

There is no difference. And anyone who claims weed is a "performance enhancer" has obviously never had it.

[AxB]

Weed is a performance enhancer!

[muhammedboehm]

And even if it's not the rules say you can't do it SO don't do it.

[Jingus]

And even if it's not the rules say you can't do it SO don't do it.

It's a bad rule. Doesn't make any sense. Should be abolished. People shouldn't follow it. And he certainly shouldn't be getting suspended for five years because of maybe doing something which is completely legal in his home state, especially when guys who test positive for everything from steroids to cocaine are getting much lighter sentences.

[Craig H]

Exactly.

 

Should someone with anxiety, depression or ADHD be prevented from taking a medicine or a supplement to help them get through their day? If it isn't a performance enhancing drug, and if the substance is legal to take (as a medicine in California anyway), then why is it banned or why does it result in a career death penalty? It's ridiculous. It's up there with 12-6 elbows being illegal because someone saw elbows used in that fashion to break bricks or wooden planks.

 

Meanwhile, how many guys were on TRT and being allowed to perform on TRT until recently? Jon Jones uses cocaine "out of competition," but still tests positive for metabolites, and yet, he spends a day in rehab and is allowed to declare himself clean...until the next time he fucked up. It's a clean substance and if it's been used weeks, or hell, even days out, it has no impact on the fight itself. THC metabolites are practically looked at as if they're Midiclorians for fucks sake. It doesn't help you heal from an injury faster like steroids will, it doesn't help your body perform at level beyond what it should like TRT will, and it doesn't help you bulk up like HGH will. More importantly, marijuana doesn't carry the health risks that cancer, TRT and HGH does.

[Craig H]

Oh, and let me ask this to muhammedboehm or anyone else that is of the opinion that Nick is in the wrong: Is it not ridiculous that MMA continues to be banned in New York?

[muhammedboehm]

No I do not think MMA should be illegal in NY but that doesn't mean I can go to NY and start an MMA league because I don't agree with the law. nick is free to smoke as much pot as he wants but he can't do that when he is training for a fight per the rules he agreed to once he became a fighter

[Craig H]

I knew you would miss the point.

[muhammedboehm]

Then please tell me the point?

[Ace]

 

And even if it's not the rules say you can't do it SO don't do it.

It's a bad rule. Doesn't make any sense. Should be abolished. People shouldn't follow it. And he certainly shouldn't be getting suspended for five years because of maybe doing something which is completely legal in his home state, especially when guys who test positive for everything from steroids to cocaine are getting much lighter sentences.

 

 

A number of things that are perfectly legal are banned in athletic competition. Diaz's excessive sentence is less to do with what substance he is using, and more to do with the fact that he keeps lying about it TO the commission. He told the commission he would stop after the first bust, and he didn't. He neglected to actually enter it on the form that asks what drugs he has taken.

 

Regardless, the 5 year ban won't hold up.

[ArtVanderlay]

 

And even if it's not the rules say you can't do it SO don't do it.

It's a bad rule. Doesn't make any sense. Should be abolished. People shouldn't follow it. And he certainly shouldn't be getting suspended for five years because of maybe doing something which is completely legal in his home state, especially when guys who test positive for everything from steroids to cocaine are getting much lighter sentences.

 

 

So...do something about it.  You and Craig H fly out to Vegas and protest at NSAC meetings, organize a "legalize pot" movement in Nevada and get it on the ballot. Don't just sit behind your computer and complain.

 

"Be the change you want to see in the world."  - Gandhi

[Craig H]

Then please tell me the point?

 

The point was that it is ridiculous for New York to continue to ban MMA contests in their state for reasons that basically boil down to money and the presented issues of violence obfuscate that. Regardless of what you think about Nick Diaz, the ruling is dumb, plain and simple, and if you're going to find the banning of MMA in New York ridiculous, I don't see how you can not say the same is true for classifying marijuana as a banned drug and performance enhancer when it is allowable for medicinal use in CA, recreational use elsewhere and has no athletic performance enhancing function.

 

More than that, where in a UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, or Elite XC contract does it state that a fighter cannot use marijuana?

 

And before you say what I know you'll say, a commission that is stuck in the past, has politicians and others firmly in their pockets, changes rules in an inconsistent manner and levies its rulings on fighters in a completely uneven way isn't one that should be supported or shouldn't be challenged. 

[Ace]

One thing has fuck-all to do with another.

 

MMA is banned in NY because a union hates that the Fertittas run non-union hotels, and can lobby the fuck out of NY legislature.

 

Marijuana is banned in athletic competition. Not just MMA. Diaz specifically told the commission that after he failed the first time, he'd stop using it. That was shown to be a blatant lie. He did not disclose marijuana as a drug he was using on the form leading up to his licensing. He is perfectly aware these are all against the rules, and seems to believe that rules shouldn't apply to him. How would you react in their place?

 

He broke the rules repeatedly and knowingly. This is not the argument one should make. The argument one should make is the one the lawyers did, that the positive test was SUCH an outlier that something else looks fishy. But even they had the option of having a second batch from that test taken, and they didn't pursue it.

[WholeFnMachine]

You don't think 5 years was excessive? Plus the fact that he was tested 3 times in one day with the samples sent to 3 different labs and 2 of the results (the ones coming from WADA accredit labs) coming in under the legal the limit. To me it looks like he got totally railroaded given the number of tests and the results of those tests.

[Ace]

I actually brought most of that up in the second paragraph.

 

That being said, Nick Diaz's life is full of self-sabotage. Until he receives professional help, it'll continue that way. 

[glfpunk]

It's a stupid rule, and the punishment is excessive in this case.  The fact that a group of people got together and chose to impact someone's life and career in such a way as to give them a 5 year punishment is the real crime. 

[El Ken Erico]

There is a sob story of his youth and motivation to fight on MMAfighting.com. Some heavy stuff i can sympathise with but then he calls himself the original Conor Mcgregor and emphasizing his whole victim stick. His demons of the past may be a good motivation for the MMA world but that only works for so long. One day your career is over and your past will be there still. Is he really that stubborn to keep smoking weed and is so much against steroids because the jocks and bullies of his youth used steroids? Is that how you want to make a point in the whole steroids vs. weed debate? Money and weed or fighting isn't the reassurance that this guy needs.

[glfpunk]

Well go give him a fucking hug then

[Ace]

Or a reality check. He's pissed hot 2 out of his last 3 fights and retired twice in the last 3 years. Nobody owes him an MMA career he doesn't appear to want in the first place. Let him run his jiu-jitsu school and triathlons.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I actually brought most of that up in the second paragraph.

 

That being said, Nick Diaz's life is full of self-sabotage. Until he receives professional help, it'll continue that way. 

 

At this point, I don't think professional help is going work for Nick Diaz. He's just one of the guys who can't move on from MMA not being the wild, wild west anymore. It doesn't help that MMA fans see him as this figure connected to that era. That makes him easy to rally around.

 

As much as I love Nick Diaz for his wacky antics and fighting ability, I can still separate my affection from the fact the dude is a bit out there legitimately and has been for awhile. Going back to what Craig asked earlier about who believes he is in the wrong, I don't think we can totally absolve the fact that he wouldn't be in front of the commission by pure chance. The dude likes to smoke. We've firmly established that. He has multiple offenses. He was going to be fucked no matter what because the pre-fight questionnaire/form is the NSAC's ace. You can bring in 20 doctors, test supervisors, and expert witnesses because it won't matter in the end. If you don't disclose whatever it is your own, they will say you lied intentionally. That will always be your undoing.

 

That's what kind of pissed me off yesterday (and during the Anderson Silva hearing). Do they really need three and a half hours for something it's going to take Pat Lundvall and/or Anthony Marnell approximately 3 minutes or less to absolutely dismiss. It doesn't help that Skip Avasino is like 160 years old and going to basically reiterate what everyone else says. A long suspension was academic before Nick Diaz even sat down and his lawyer started talking.

 

So I think it isn't a question of whether or not Nick Diaz is in the wrong. It's to what extent Nick Diaz is in the wrong and what reasonably should be his punishment? I think no matter how many lists of the new standards the NSAC puts out, it's always going to seem arbitrary to the average fan because of how the NSAC chooses to conduct business. They are trying to be business oriented AND try to maintain this false sense of sanctity. I am not bashing the conflict of interest because that's always going to be inherent when you have regulation. That was my point when someone brought up having a regulatory body to oversee the state commissions several months ago

 

I'm bashing that fact that as much of these athletes don't see the continued use of PEDs and/or drugs of recreation hurt their career, the commissions (specifically Nevada's) don't see how those two interests never line up. The fact that every hearing has someone saying "Hey, we have stricter standards now and we go by WADA, etc." like they weren't trying to before. So based on whether it's a 9-3 unknown undercard boxer or some MMA fighter with notoriety w/ multiple offenses, they can choose to get tough anytime they feel like it. I know nothing's fair, but that just doesn't sit right with me. I don't like how people's careers hinge on the fact whether Pat Lundvall is in "angry aunt" mode or really wants to hear about you missing your child support payments. Once they started that narrative of "disrespect" with Diaz (FWIW reporters who were there yesterday heard them speak about that off the mic), there was no way he could stop that. Maybe I am the only one who feels this way. I am not going to make Nick Diaz into this martyr because he definitely isn't. However, I will say that I am not big believer that the NSAC can convey they will be able to help solve any type of drug problem and have the resources to do that. As long as they want have this junior high principal's office mentality, it's going to be the same circus it has been. If you want the fighters to change, you have to reflect change as well and that can't be just on paper that you hold up as your own personal Bible.

[Jingus]

To the people saying "he shouldn't have lied about it!": uh, wouldn't openly admitting it have led to getting suspended anyway? It's like Bill Clinton lying about getting sucked off; yeah, no shit he didn't tell the truth, because he would've automatically gotten punished for doing so.

 

So...do something about it.  You and Craig H fly out to Vegas and protest at NSAC meetings, organize a "legalize pot" movement in Nevada and get it on the ballot. Don't just sit behind your computer and complain.

 

"Be the change you want to see in the world."  - Gandhi

Gladly. Now you just pay for my plane ticket, my food, my housing, and my transportation. Oh, what's that? You don't have the money to do all that? Neither do I. And YOU'RE sitting behind your computer and complaining (about my sitting behind my computer and complaining), in case ya didn't notice the irony.

[Ace]

To the people saying "he shouldn't have lied about it!": uh, wouldn't openly admitting it have led to getting suspended anyway? 

 

Nope. It would've been out of competition, like Jones' cocaine failure.

[Kevin Wilson]

The issue (well so many issues) is it doesn't matter if people agree with the rule, its the rule. I get drug tested at work, if I test positive for marijuana, I get fired. So guess what? I don't smoke marijuana because I don't want to get fired. I think its a stupid rule (well I don't smoke anyway but I don't see why they should care so much) but everyone has to follow it or the job goes away. There are a lot of rules and laws I think are stupid, that doesn't mean I get to break them and not expect consequences. Do I think five years for smoking marijuana is ridiculous? Course I do, as do most people, but the issue isn't 'but he should be allowed to do it!' because he isn't. Fight for a rule change, fine, argue the penalty is too stiff and I am right there with ya. But if you break the rule while it is still in place there are consequences in MMA just like there are in real life.