Scotland to vote on secession from rest of United Kingdom.

[Larry Rydell]

So...yeah, this is actually happening

 

http://time.com/3267578/scottish-referendum-uk-vote-nailbiter/

[Cristobal]

[Bustronaut]

Now, I can't see the link, but Scotland voting for/against Independence seems a rather historic event.

[Gonzo]

Now, I can't see the link, but Scotland voting for/against Independence seems a rather historic event.

 

Here's the whole "Scottish Independence" section of The Guardian. Referendum is 13 days away.

 

Been watching quite a bit of this, since Sky News is my new primary news source. The "Yes" campaign has really closed the gap a lot in the past couple of weeks.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

It was briefly discussed a while back. http://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1607-scottish-referendum-on-independence/

 

It really feels as if there's a swing towards a yes vote, it's all anyone's talking about really. I'm going to be heartbroken if this doesn't happen now.

 

Oh, and fuck Sky news, fuck all the tv news that isn't Channel 4.

[goodhelmet]

[Dolfan in NYC]

Every Brit I've ever talked to has said to a man that the wish for Irish unity is an American phenomenon.   The UK would be happy to toss over N. Ireland, but they absolutely don't want to go.  

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Every Brit I've ever talked to has said to a man that the wish for Irish unity is an American phenomenon.   The UK would be happy to toss over N. Ireland, but they absolutely don't want to go.  

I know a bunch of folk from Norn Irn who would take serious issue with that statement. In the minority back home, yes, but there's still a lot of people in favour of unity, or even striking out on their own.

[Brian Fowler]

We are no longer on Scotland at all, but a guy who lived down the hall from me my Freshman year was Irish (as in, American but all his grandparents were from Ireland) and he was really, really big on the reunited Ireland thing.

 

Then he spent a semester there either our Sophomore or Junior year.  I literally never heard him mentioned it again after he got back.

[goodhelmet]

Sorry to derail the thread guys but it was the only song i could remotely think of that was even close to relevant. Anyway... Scotland.

[AxB]

Lots of Northern Irish Catholics/ Republicans* like the idea of a united Ireland... in theory. But looking at the state of the Irish economy in the last few years, and the speed at which it's not recovering, it's not something they really talk about in terms of something that could or should actually happen any time soon. But then, there's a lot of things Northern Irish people don't like to talk about.

 

No-one in the UK is more committed to the Union than Northern Irish Unionists. Not the English, not the Welsh, not the Scots No Voters.

 

* Meaning anti-Royalists. Not necessarily the American meaning of republican.

[muhammedboehm]

Lots of Northern Irish Catholics/ Republicans* like the idea of a united Ireland... in theory. But looking at the state of the Irish economy in the last few years, and the speed at which it's not recovering, it's not something they really talk about in terms of something that could or should actually happen any time soon. But then, there's a lot of things Northern Irish people don't like to talk about.

No-one in the UK is more committed to the Union than Northern Irish Unionists. Not the English, not the Welsh, not the Scots No Voters.

* Meaning anti-Royalists. Not necessarily the American meaning of republican.

On the Socialist/Fascist horseshoe where would anti-Royalist fall? I'm not familiar with the UK political spectrum.

[AxB]

Generally, people who support the abolition of the Royal Family are on the left-wing. Right wingers are all for ideas of inherited privilege and wealth.

 

Yes, in the UK, Republican generally means Socialist. The American Republican party being so right wing is the real mystery. They should have called themselves The Ultra-Capitalists or something.

[Cristobal]

Well, going back a ways, the Republican party was founded on a position of opposition to slavery. At first, they were the party of the north, but between Reconstruction and protectionist tariffs, had morphed into the party of big business by the 20th century. FDR and the New Deal would start bringing black voters into the Democratic party, and by the time the Civil Rights movement rolled around, the GOP would adopt the Southern Strategy which would steadily move the party more and more rightward (to the point where they now call Hitler a "leftist".)

[Lazlo Woodbine]

Some light relief as the Labour party do one of those street walkabout things in Glasgow.

 

It's pretty fucking intense now, Scotland has never been this politically engaged in my lifetime.

[Jingus]

Any updates?  We don't hear much about this in American news; the local news is almost obsessively dominated by crime reports.  

[Brian Fowler]

Krugman has been writing a bit about the risks of being an independent state without having an independent currency, using the way the Euro is basically destroying Southern Europe and harming the rest of the EU as the main reference point, and contrasting to Canada, whose relationship with the U.S. will presumably be a decent mirror for a theoretically independent Scotland's with the U.K., but having their own currency...

[odessasteps]

People seem to upset last week when the banks started making noises (including RBS) about moving their HQ to the UK if Yes wins.

I'd recommend listening to the bbc online and read the paper of your choice (times, independent, guardian) this week.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

I'd recommend taking what the establishment media - especially the BBC - says with a large dose of salt. The RBS thing is particularly notable as it seems the BBC were briefed on their contingency plans by the UK treasury (market sensitive information that it is) before any decision to make an announcement had been made, essentially forcing their hand. What the BBC didn't report was the RBS statement saying there would be no effect on jobs or operations in Scotland, and since corporation tax is payable where operations are taking place, it's not much of a story. Not that RBS pays any fucking corporation tax as they're too fragile just now and 80% owned by the UK taxpayer anyway. Really all this does is take serious risk off Scotlands balance sheet.

 

Tommy Sheridan was on the BBC Sunday Politics show yesterday, reminding me that even if I don't always follow his line of thinking, he's still my political hero. An old fashioned socialist of the type the Labour party used to be full of. I laughed so much at this.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

It's 1/4 best price with the bookies for a No vote. I don't think it's happening this time around, but I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle either.

 

Broadly I think secession would be a pity, mostly for England. But I can understand it - Scotland never would have ended up with Thatcher, Major, Blair or Cameron and having spent some time in Denmark (similar population, less natural resources), it might well be that Scotland can strike out on their own and make something happen.

 

It would be a lot of work though, getting all those Government departments and whatnot set-up - the IT contracts will be eye-watering, As an IT contractor, I am really hoping for a 'Yes' vote for no other reason that I reckon I could get work up in Scotland for a while as a result.

[AxB]

There was a Poll in the paper yesterday, where they asked if the UK Army should help to defend an independent Scotland, and if the Scots should be allowed to rejoin the union if Independence doesn't work out too well. Overwhelmingly (like 84%) Scottish people thought yes to both. English and Welsh people, not so much. Should Scottish MPs sit in the UK Parliament? Scots think so.

 

It does seem... wanting to keep the pound, wanting to be in the European Union, they want the benefits of Independence without the risks. And they don't realise that the rest of the UK would feel rejected and spiteful about it.

[Joe Lucia]

Relevant:

 

[AxB]

The uploader has not made this video available in your country? Can't be that relevant.

[Joe Lucia]

Thanks HBO.

[AxB]

Nah, it's SKY. They paid HBO for exclusivity.

 

I watched it on another Youtube channel anyway. The flag looks rubbish without the blue bits. Someone should mock up the Australian & Hawaiian flags without the St Andrew's cross on them as well.