Scottish referendum on independence

[Swift]

There are some Scots here, so I'm curious where you guys stand on the issue. I'm presuming most people are in favour of a yes vote?

 

What about you English/Welsh lads? Do you want the Scots to stay? Are you in favour of them leaving the union? Do you care?

 

This means the Union Jack as we know it would no longer exist if a yes vote went through, right?

[jaedmc]

The first time I heard about it was when William Hague mentioned it on the radio, a day or two ago. I think it was Hague. He said if it goes through then that means Scotland will also be out of the EU, which sounds like a shitty threat to me. 

 

I say fuck 'em and get free, but I don't have eggs in the basket. 

[cool arrow]

FREEEEEEEEEEDOM!!!

 

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Antacular]

Most polls have a majority of Scots favoring to remain part of the union. Although, IIRC, the number hasn't been much higher than about 55%, so I guess it could go either way, but smart money says they stay put.

[Ryan]

This can go here. From Slashdot.

 

"The political battle over Scotland's independence ballot — to take place in September this year — has now moved on to how the BBC project the UK on their national weather forecast. The BBC use a projection based on the view of Britain from geostationary weather satellites and so there is naturally some foreshortening at the northern end of Britain (Scotland, in other words). But nationalist campaigners say this means Scottish viewers are constantly being shown a distorted image of their country which makes it look smaller and hence (in their view) less able to support independence. In response others have suggested that the nationalists are truly 'flat earthers.'"

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

My Gran was Scottish, she would probably have said "I don't care, why would anybody else?".

 

I try and keep that on the DL though, don't want people to know I'm not a pure blood.

[Lazlo Woodbine]

I'm all for it, and a lot of people I know are too. It's a strange optimism we're not really used to though. As said, the numbers point to a "no" vote, but they've narrowed a little and I do think it'll be very close on the day. The media seems to have been at fever pitch for months already so we'll probably get some serious hysteria before polling day.

 

"Better Together" is the organisation handling the no campaign, a collective of Labour, Lib Dem and Tories who are running a fairly negative line that weirdly recalls Labour's losing election campaign for the last Scottish Parliament. Lots of threats on issues where there's a lot of options - currency, Europe etc. The only person I've heard in Europe talking about the possibility of denying EU membership was the Spanish Prime Minister(maybe President?), and he's more worried about the precedent than anything else. It looks like an empty threat given the trade implications.. Better Together are jokingly calling themselves Project Fear so that gives you an idea.

 

Mainly I'm all for it because it would mean the fucking Tories would be effectively wiped out in Scotland. We don't vote for them and they're still always dictating our policy and fucking us. England's obsession with UKIP is worrying on that front too.

 

Is that thing about the weather map a rehashed story? Years ago, when they started using the map they use now, it really was absurdly tilted, but it was levelled out a bit after some complaints. Either way, the BBC are very much a British thing and personally, I don't trust their reporting on the issue at all anymore.

 

This is the short version. Bring on the socialist utopia.

[Brian Fowler]

Didn't someone say that Scotland would refuse to take any of the U.K.'s debt with them?

[Antacular]

That's extremely unlikely. Such a move would shoot up UK interest rates, as Scotland makes up over 10% of the UK population, which would cause any newly issued Scottish debt to be priced to the moon via contagion. Apparently the UK has already pledged to honor all debts up until their independence, and the most likely route in such a scenario seems to be that Scotland would take a debt amount from the UK as a percentage of either their population or contribution to UK public finances. 

[Kropotkin's Beard]

Didn't someone say that Scotland would refuse to take any of the U.K.'s debt with them?

Only in the general pissing contest of the "negotiations" between the Yes and No campaigns. Frankly I'll believe it when it happens, much like I'll believe that the rump UK will suddenly put up a fence at the border with border checks overnight if we do get independence.

 

I've been pro-independence for...well, forever really, not really out of nationalist sentiment but more because the South East of England going on its own from the rest of the UK isn't on the table sadly. The entire country is run for that corner, and damn the rest. I just feel sorry for the folk in the North of England and in Wales who we'll be leaving behind.

 

The chances are that the referendum will fail, but at the same time, the polling numbers have been closing up the past 6 months, at least partially because everyone seems to be utterly fed up with the negative campaigning from the No camp. So while I'd say the chances are that Scotland won't be independent anytime soon, I have definitely noticed a general change in peoples attitudes, with a lot of uncertains swinging towards Yes, and there's still 200 or so days to keep making a positive impression. The fact that the government in power at Westminster is almost universally unpopular and seems hell bent on privatizing the health service and smashing the welfare state certainly does not play well up here, and so the more that the ConDems keep doing what comes naturally and being utter bastards, the better the chances of the Yes campaign winning out. There's still a lot to play for.

 

Personally I find both sides to be coming out with some serious nonsense, and the Yes lot have been pretty evasive and coming awfully close to lying on a couple of occasions which I find disheartening. And the SNP changing their polices on things like NATO membership is pretty irritating. But it'd have to take something pretty catastrophic to make me considering voting no come 18th September, the romantic in me thinks that getting to be apart of the first generation to see Scotland as an independent nation since 1707 and to help forge a new direction away from the neo-liberal consensus south of the border is too exciting to not want to be a part of. The cynic in me just wants to get the Tories to fuck.

[Red is Dead]

As a Scot living south of the border (or part of the "advance party" as commandant Salmond would have us call it) I'm torn as to what I'd do, if I had a vote.

 

On the one side, FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOM, and all that entails with it, the two fingers to the south and away ye go lads.

 

On the other hand, I don't think Scotland can survive once the oil has gone. A veritable shit ton of money comes from oil. 

 

I personally believe everyone will lost out on this deal. Scotland will lose out on the money from Westminster, and the rest of the UK as a whole will lose out from the removal of Scotland in itself.

 

The tories will claim to pump in million in investment to scotland as a bribe of sorts and the remove it if/when the scots vote for independence. if they dont vote for it, holyrood house will be cut off at the knees and scotland will truly be fucked.