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Just now, Ligerbusa said:

They screened it at the Alamo Drafthouse. They were supposed to show T2 and twenty minutes of Dark Fate but surprised people by showing Dark Fate in its entirely. Most reviews are calling it solid and comparing it to The Force Awakens. Praise for Linda Hamilton and Mackenzie Davis.

It's a beat by beat remake of Terminator?  I kid but that probably wouldn't be a bad idea

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Judging from the trailers, more like a beat by beat remake of T2

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Terminator 2: Dark Fate is currently 62% fresh on Rotten Tomatoes after 37 reviews.

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There are some creative decisions in the film that are interesting but are gonna piss off a lot of fans.

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The opening scene of Terminator: Dark Fate is upsetting a lot of people but for me, it was too quick to make much of an impact.

The cast is really strong for the most part. Mackenzie Davis is a welcome addition and it’s great to see Linda Hamilton back. This is easily Arnold Schwarzenegger’s best work in the franchise since T2. I kind of loved the Rev 9 as a a machine. It feels like what the T-X should have been. It’s hard for Gabriel Luna to follow in the footsteps of Arnold and Robert Patrick but he does a good job. Natalia Reyes plays a character (and actress) that is still trying to find her footing here. There’s one scene particular that is quite bad, the dialogue does not help.

The action is pretty good, but the end sequence is a bit too over the top for my tastes. It’s literally a combination of all the previous Terminator movies, A-Team and the Fast & Furious franchise.

Much like the end sequence, the story is rehashing what has come before it. The future has changed but the past plays out much the same. Still, the leads do a good job pulling it forward. Their performances and the majority of the action scenes made it enjoyable for me. 7/10

Edited by Ligerbusa
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I agree with a lot of what Ligerbusa said except for Mackenzie Davis. I think she had the look down, but her line delivery and acting as Grace was subpar for me.

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I saw Dark Fate on Sunday evening.

I thought it was okay.  I thought the story was pretty solid and the acting was pretty much by the numbers.

We now see the brilliance in shelving the "good ending" from T2.  I always thought Sarah was arrogant and stupid for believing that shutting down Cyberdine alone would save humanity when there were certainly other companies and technical geniuses about that could also craft an AI as potent and fucking bonkers as Skynet.

The timeline of events kinda bugged me though.  Grace was from 2042 and I seriously don't think we'll have the quantum advancement in aircraft, ballistics, cybernetics, or time travel that we saw in the movie by the time I am 72 years old.

If we are, I'll be the first one in line for one of those Altered Carbon sleeves.

I can only assume that the militias gained access to advanced weaponry and equipment like that through repurposing and reverse engineering Legion's new T-Program technology but again, how do you do that in a world where manufacturing and public infrastructure not controlled by Legion has gone to complete shit?

I totally love the concept for the Rev 9.  It has the best of all worlds from previous T models, having an exoskeleton and nanite chassis that can act independently of each other.  Fucking sweet!

As for the beginning of the film:

Spoiler

So much for Rise of the Machines and Genisys being canon, right.  

They bumped off John Connor as a kid in the first ten minutes of a movie.  It almost felt like a big Fuck You to both Ed Furlong and Nick Stahl.

I have to give credit to Natalia Reyes for some of the subtle story points that she pulled off perfectly.

Spoiler

When we all thought that it would be Dani's kid leading the resistance, there were some moments in the scene where everyone is at Carl's place eating a meal where Dani's body language and facial cues seemed to betray more than a casual interest in Carl's adopted son, Mateo.

I was like, "Is Dani making moon eyes at Mateo?  Is Miller teasing a hook-up before the shit hits the fan?"

But nope.  Red herring.  I totally fell for it.  Acting isn't just reciting lines from a script, folks.   I was completely fooled by Reyes's expressiveness.

I also cannot help but think that all of the divisive political claptrap stuffed into this movie is what caused it to have such a lukewarm box office opening weekend.  It seems designed to piss off as many Border Wall = Bullshit people as possible and they responded by keeping their money in their pockets.

I'm thinking that either Doctor Sleep or Joker takes the #1 spot this coming Friday.

Edited by J.T.

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On 9/3/2019 at 1:10 AM, Brian Fowler said:

Terminator > Aliens as well.

Ditto.  As much as I love Aliens, I am a Cold War Kid and few nightmarish things have stuck with me more than the opening credits scene for T2.

I will admit feeling a chill down the spine when Dark Fate opened up with Sarah's iconic "million SPF sunblock" interrogation scene and when the T2 theme ran during the closing credits.  That drum cadence is still blood curdling..

Bum Bum Bum BA Bum.

On 9/3/2019 at 1:10 AM, Brian Fowler said:

(But, if it counts as action, Blade Runner is better then all of these.)

Blade Runner / Blade Runner 2049 are certainly better hard sci-fi films but all of those movies not named Aliens have implausibly bad real science in them from Blade Runner's flying cars to Terminator's backwards time travel.

For movies that are pretty much monster movies masquerading as speculative fiction, there is a lot of accurate science theory and fact at work in those films. 

Especially Alien: Covenant with it's solar recharge intervals for the ship's power systems and solving the problem of food logistics with cryo-hibernation.

Like Dark Fate, I also have a problem with the science of Blade Runner 2049 coming about by the time I am 80 years old.  Flying cars and bioengineered humans?  Not in my lifetime.

 

Edited by J.T.

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14 minutes ago, J.T. said:

Ditto.  As much as I love Aliens, I am a Cold War Kid and few nightmarish things have stuck with me more than the opening credits scene for T2.

Just to clarify my exact opinion: The Terminator > Aliens > Terminator 2.

Which is not at all me disliking T2.

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Just now, Brian Fowler said:

Just to clarify my exact opinion: The Terminator > Aliens > Terminator 2.

Which is not at all me disliking T2.

My picks would be more like T2 > Terminator > Aliens with the caveat that I really do love all of those movies and also not a sign of me disliking any of them.

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To the supporters of this film, calling it the best Terminator film since T2 or it's the best Terminator sequel isn't saying a whole hell of a lot. 

The reason this movie doesn't work. The prologue of the movie essentially states that fuck your saviors and the whole savior idea is pointless. Yet the rest of the movie is this desperate race to save Dani when the prologue proved that you don't need a savior to prevent the threat or Judgement Day or or preserve humanity's future. You simply have to take steps to prevent it from happening and you're good. If John was irrelevant to stopping Judgement Day, then Dani is equally irrelevant to stopping Nu-Judgement Day.

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8 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

To the supporters of this film, calling it the best Terminator film since T2 or it's the best Terminator sequel isn't saying a whole hell of a lot. 

  Reveal hidden contents

The reason this movie doesn't work. The prologue of the movie essentially states that fuck your saviors and the whole savior idea is pointless. Yet the rest of the movie is this desperate race to save Dani when the prologue proved that you don't need a savior to prevent the threat or Judgement Day or or preserve humanity's future. You simply have to take steps to prevent it from happening and you're good. If John was irrelevant to stopping Judgement Day, then Dani is equally irrelevant to stopping Nu-Judgement Day.

 

?

Spoiler

I didn't really get that impression.  I think that it was more about the idea that there are as many forces moving towards JD as there are fighting against it and that it is the blessing and curse of heroes to have to be vigilant at all times.  That burden has taken its toll on Sarah and now it will do the same for Dani but unlike Sarah, at least Dani is choosing to assume the role of messiah.

Dani is better equipped to handle the role since she's already experienced loss.  Sarah was in it for John and not for herself and when he was killed, it changed her for the worst.  Like Carl said, purpose is important.

The alteration in time streams from the destruction of the Cyberdine components in T2  coupled with John's death led to the formation of an alternate time stream where Legion took over Skynet's role.  It is ironic that by accomplishing its mission, the only think Skynet succeeded in doing was getting itself replaced by another rogue AI.

 

Edited by J.T.
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The whole alternate timeline thing annoys me. T2 rightfully kept that all ambiguous by the end. Once again takes the franchise into Genisys territory. You can't expect an audience to take this film as a serious sequel and the "real" T3 when you take a dump on them like that. Genisys operated under the same false promises that this movie did.  

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10 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The whole alternate timeline thing annoys me. T2 rightfully kept that all ambiguous by the end. Once again takes the franchise into Genisys territory. You can't expect an audience to take this film as a serious sequel and the "real" T3 when you take a dump on them like that. Genisys operated under the same false promises that this movie did.  

 

Spoiler

Genisys is filled with so much bullshit that it is best ignored anyway.   The very idea that John was able to send Pops back in time to protect Sarah when she was nine completely invalidates the very first movie.  Why send Kyle back in time in Genisys if Sarah already has a pet T-800 - 101 at her beck and call.

If Pops has been around the entire time, where was he during the events of the very first Terminator movie?

I don't think you can even use Genisys as an argument since it is wildly inconsistent with anything in the Terminator mythology.  I'm proud of Cameron for endorsing the movie and standing behind his concepts and ideas, but I wonder what he really thinks about the movie.

 

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On 11/4/2019 at 1:21 PM, J.T. said:

 

As for the beginning of the film:

  Reveal hidden contents

So much for Rise of the Machines and Genisys being canon, right.  

They bumped off John Connor as a kid in the first ten minutes of a movie.  It almost felt like a big Fuck You to both Ed Furlong and Nick Stahl.

 

I really really wish

Spoiler

John Conner had just disappeared before Sarah's very eyes as a consequence of the timeline changing and Reese being his father. It would have been much more subtly heartbreaking. I'm sure they could have figured out another motive for Sarah Connor and Father Terminator to do what they did

 

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2 hours ago, BurningBeard said:

I really really wish

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John Conner had just disappeared before Sarah's very eyes as a consequence of the timeline changing and Reese being his father. It would have been much more subtly heartbreaking. I'm sure they could have figured out another motive for Sarah Connor and Father Terminator to do what they did

 

Ha!

Spoiler

Theory of Relativity makes backwards time travel impossible.  Time moves in relation to the speed of light and light does not travel in reverse unless there is a catastrophic gravity anomaly aka a black hole in play.. 

Even then, it is assumed that light does not travel backwards;  it just changes directions and travels on the same path in the opposite vector.

It's been theorized that reverse time travel could be possible under wormhole conditions with the right combination of light and supergravity, but what good is that means if no one or nothing would survive the trip?  That question is left to guys smarter than me at PBSM (Physics Beyond The Standard Model).  I can barely read the fucking articles.

Such was the lunchtime discussion when your office was near a DARPA enclave on post.

However yes, if you go by the corollary of the Grandfather Paradox then John should've winked out of existence as soon as the T-800 melted in T2. 

If JD had been averted permanently, there would be no cause to send Reese back to protect Sarah because there would be no threat of Skynet.  John's father would've never have gone back to impregnate Sarah.

The temporal mechanics in the Terminator movies is the worst.

 

Edited by J.T.
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The Dani scene I was talking about with the bad dialogue...

...is her future war scene and it’s soooooo bad and forced. 

“Yeah well fuck fate!”

This didn’t help the actress, the character or anyone who was already against her for replacing John Connor.

The people that hate this movie really hate it and it’s kind of pathetic. Constantly going on about it being woke, calling Grace transgender. I do like how they sign their posts [/spoiler]#ForJohn[/spoiler], you know..a quote from the movie they hate.

Not that they have anything to worry about since the movie is bombing. 

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Oof. 

Crappy sequels (note, I've never had the urge to watch them after Terminator 3 but know of the reviews) tainted the brand, high benchmark in The Terminator/T2, Arnold isn't the draw he once was and *Dark Fate SPOILER*:

What happens to John Connor.

Edited by The Natural

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I love how self aware female reboots of beloved films have become.

Don't advertise it as such, let the pissbabies complain after you got their money. I enjoyed it far more than I expected. I went along to humor uncle and not much else. Solid 7/10.

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My wife and I loved it. I will say that I think Terminator movies do time travel worse than literally any other TV series or movie. I had a few issues with Dark Fate that all centered around the time travel aspects, but because everything else was very enjoyable, I didn't really focus on those things or let them ruin the ride. It's a shame the brand is so tainted now because had this been released years ago instead of T3, I doubt the brand would be in such dire straits. It just sucks. My holy trinity of 80s/early 90s franchises are all pretty much dead now and all for pretty much the same reason - Terminator, Predator, and Aliens.

As for my issues with the movie:

Spoiler

First, opening scene shocked the hell out of us and was awesome. It was only until I thought more about it later that it doesn't make much sense. So Skynet is able to send back multiple terminators to multiple years even though Skynet won't exist because of what Sarah and John accomplished? What? Not only that, but if they have T-1000s, why send more T-800s? The secondary objective for the terminators after killing John is to kill Sarah. The T-800 kills John and then just walks right past Sarah. Oooook.

Carl explaining how he knew when and where other terminators were being sent is the most hand wavy bullshit ever. Even Steven Moffat would say that's too much. Also, why were terminators being sent here if they weren't going after Dani? Why not just go after Dani if Legion knows she's the one they need to take out?

If Skynet doesn't exist in the future then who the fuck knows who or what Carl is in the future and how the fuck do they know where he is?

I wish they showed how they were able to send Grace back in time. And as for Grace being sent back, she was saved and sent back by Dani. Dani becomes this leader because Sarah trains her to be one. Dani of the future has to know who Sarah is so why would Dani of the future not tell Grace, oh hey, by the way, find Sarah Conner and make sure she winds up with me.

And finally, the movie posits two things: One, the machines (Skynet, Legion, whatever) will NEVER win. Ever. Never ever. John Connor was killed and it didn't matter. Dani could be killed and it still won't matter. So what the fuck is the point of these movies? And two, time is looped and everything is predetermined, which is kinda lame.

Anyway, this is all stuff that bugged me after the fact and didn't bother me during the movie or even lessen how much I liked it, but it does go to show just how poorly done and how half baked the time travel shit is in the Terminator movies. It's just all time bad. Thankfully, the cast and the rest of the movie was great.

Also, solid color drapes are fine for a children's room. They don't need to have butterflies or polka dots on them. I also wouldn't tell any of this to Carl. Carl got away with his ideas for draperies because no one is going to disagree with him.

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Yes, the temporal mechanics in the Terminator films are the worst.  Apart from the horrible science of backwards time travel, these movies can't even keep their Grandfather Paradoxes straight.

Granted, it's possible that Legion could've accessed the schematics for the T program and Terminator units would've been built regardless of Skynet's non-creation.  However "Carl" specifically recalls being created by Skynet and being sent back to kill John, which should've been impossible. 

If Skynet were never created, neither would any of the specific T-800's it had produced... including the ones sent to strike at Sarah and John in T1 and T2.

At least Avengers: Endgame had the decency to show that in order to doctor a time stream to prevent probability divergence, it took several events taking place in a specific manner and in a specific sequence in order to achieve the desired spatial outcome.

Edited by J.T.
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I think Endgame is one of the best because they followed the BttF model of going back in time creates a different universe or timestream, in order for those worlds to not get messed up you need to leave it like you found it, and they acknowledged they clearly fucked up some of those timelines because they couldn't do that, but hey, they at least saved the 616 universe so it's all good...

 

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Yeah, I understand why Skynet has to send someone back to kill Sarah.  Sure, Kyle Reese is right there for the plonking, but I always assumed that either Sarah was smart enough not to identify Reese in any records that Skynet could access to discern the identity of John's father.

Also, the rebels had successfully sent Reese back after it had toppled Skynet, so it's not like Skynet would've known to take the easier route of sending back a T-800 unit back like two weeks to rat the rebels out and prevent Reese from being sent back in the first place.

I just don't understand how Skynet would verify Sarah's death if the T-800's sent to kill her had been successful.  How did it know to send the T-1000 after John when he was a child?  And how would one single murder streamline a myriad of different timelines?

Just as Legion sprouted up after Skynet's future was nixed, someone else could rise up to fill John's shoes like Dani did and Skynet would be caught in an eternal push down / pop up with rebel leaders.

BTTF and Endgame both had a good understanding of how Grandfather Paradoxes are supposed to work from a logical standpoint even though backwards time travel itself is theoretically impossible.

Edited by J.T.

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Yo...sounds like things didn't go so great making this movie:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/why-terminator-dark-fate-director-wont-work-james-cameron-again-1257322

Pretty interesting stuff. I'm going to say that Tim Miller is impossible to work with and if he's not careful, he's going to fuck up a good career directing movies.

Edited by Craig H

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