Wherein Matt D And Tim Make A Bet

[TimLivingston]

Of all the Sliding Doors DEAN opened when he started DVDVR, me and @Matt D having a bet as a result of the Punk/EVP drama to be settled on via originally a Segunda Caida article but then settling on a long post here, on the board where we made our silly little wager in the first place, is probably not as big as “the world’s biggest NFL writer used to go to wrestling shows with us when he was in college” but it’s probably pretty damn close. 

If it weren’t for the board? I would have never met @EricR after realizing we were both North Bay locals, and I would have never been friends with Matt had it not been for meeting Eric, although we crossed paths more impersonally on various boards and offshoots of this place. DEAN’s legacy is a thousand stories like this: Some lead to content on a wrestling blog for two decades, others lead to the creation of a billion-dollar wrestling company. Potato, potahto.

So when that company hosted their All Out PPV last year and the brawl nobody wants to talk about (legal reasons or otherwise) became a thread so long and contentious we actually thought this might be the end of the Board, Matt and I instead saw a way to Create Content amongst ourselves by making a friendly wager on what the ultimate result of that brawl would be. In a selfish way? It’s how I get back on the site after somehow, some way, finishing Lucha Underground with Eric by taking over for Matt! No, I don’t know how we did it. It’s all there to read if you want to.

Of course, we then came to the conclusion that since the bet was made here, we might as well have the result of that bet here. Alas, my plan is foiled. 

The bet was simple enough: After the fight, would that rascal CM Punk actually (be allowed to?) return to AEW? I was absolutely confident that he would. His impact on AEW over a year-plus span was too much for even a fistfight against the homeschoolers and The Personification Of Wrestling Otaku to dissuade. I also still like to believe the fight basically took place like the brawl in Anchorman; Ace Steel as Brick Tamlin, of course. Matt was less convinced Punk would return; for many, as it turned out, valid reasons!

Two things happened since that bet came to be, unchronologically. The first is I became a dad, the most wonderful thing that has ever happened to me and something I still don’t believe has actually happened. The second is that DEAN died.

In the must-hear Exile on Bradstreet retrospective pod on DEAN’s life, the Phils and Kris talked openly about how much DEAN meant to them and where wrestling may have began the friendship for the Playaz, but it sustained through DEAN’s constant adoration and support for his friends and everything else in their lives. It was always more than just wrestling to DEAN when you interacted on the Board or the myriad chats he was a part of. As was said in the pod, it was about what he did to share his life with others, especially with the things he loved. And when he saw something where that love was equally expressed, he was always there to back it up or lend support. That was his legacy, more so even than the tildebang~!

I personally remember posting with pride about my broadcasts when I was in Dunedin with the Blue Jays what seems like a lifetime ago in 2009-10. My first pro broadcasting gig ever. And when DEAN of all people responded with an affirmation of how cool it was, it really did mean the world to me. That was one of thousands of times he did that for people, as many anecdotes have described, on the Board and off. 

But they also talked about him as a father. And how much his kids just adored him and how much he supported them and how proud of them he was. I’ve talked with a few fathers in our community that reinforced that gleeful anticipation I had for when I became one and the two months since my daughter was born have only made that joy stronger. 

That particular part of the pod just absolutely broke me, as did his daughter’s response to all our support after his passing. We all know how good DEAN was to us and how he built up this community; it was only fitting we supported the amazing community he built in his home. 

So. This bet began on DEAN’s Board. About an incident that happened in a company that wouldn’t exist without him creating this incubator of talent on the internet. And I obviously won. So Matt now has to review three matches of my choosing, and in our original talks, the goal was to throw matches to the other person that would be a chore to watch, not unlike most of the discourse that happened after the incident. We had some spirited discussions of what routes to go that veered very much into the sublimely banal. Matt watches so much for posterity and enjoyment that the idea is you gotta make the other guy suffer as counterbalance. Or so it may have been. In the end, I went more thematic around the incident itself. 

Since supposedly a chair was thrown when it all went down, and I didn’t want to have Matt review an episode of The Boondocks, I figured I’d give him a match with some of the most insane chair throwing I’ve seen. Since Punk not only came back but got his own damn show AND got the supposed worst offender in the brawl his job back after being fired, he and Steel were the “winners” of the brawl, so I figured a match with the two of them was a shoe-in. Finally, as tribute, a match fit for the Sport of Kings: A DEAN special all the way. 

In the end, we all win because we found our way to this corner of the internet; DEAN just made sure it was enjoyable for all who wanted to be there. Here’s to bets between friends, both won and lost. 

[Matt D]

With earnest and not in the least begrudging thanks to Tim for the bet, the intertwined fates of the last year, and the matches (which were in their own way a true mercy), I shall get right to it.

 

Terry Funk vs Rick Martel (Universal Title Semi-Final Match) WWC 9/20/86

 

This is one of my absolute favorite performances of all time and Tim is a Mensch. There are two great Funk vs Martel matches on tape. The other is an AJPW tag with Martel/Zenk vs the Funks where they treat Martel like a buddy, a fellow champion, and Zenk like he's the dirt beneath their feet. This is special in a totally different way. It's one of the craziest, most over the top Funk performances ever, against an all time babyface, in an area alien to both of them. Just wild stuff. 

Terry Funk is probably the single best seller of all time. There's Ricky Morton. There's Rey Mysterio. There's Lawler. There's Invader I. Terry, though, was transcendent. The way I explain it is thus: he's the first foreigner to really get over in Japan as a babyface and he got over by being credible, by being fierce, by being tough, but most of all by being absolutely afraid to look vulnerable despite all that. It mattered when Dory got in there and fired back; it mattered even more when Terry was recovered enough to do the same and it mattered because Terry was fearless and selfless and sold everything like it was the absolute most important, most devastating, most impactful thing in the world. The more he cares, the more you care.

And boy did he care here. The match starts with him trying to cheapshot Martel; he loses his hat in the process. Martel kneedrops it. Funk can't get out of his pants. Funk tries to use the branding iron. Funk tries a straight up assault. He climbs to the top and slips off and crotches himself. And then he loses it completely, chucking chairs into the crowd. And it's the most Puerto Rico thing imaginable. It wouldn't work anywhere else, but here? Here it was wrestling perfection. Of course he comes back in and has his pants pulled down by Martel. This is the first time I ever watched the match with youtube's translation function on and the apologizing after that from the announcers is hilarious. All of it is. 

And when it comes time to turn to something weightier to balance out the stakes of the match (the winner to face the winner of Abby vs Colon for the title), Funk manages it perfectly, starting with a low blow mule kick (Foul!) and then taking it to Martel on the outside. Here's Martel's chance to sell and he does so to the very last row of a baseball stadium. The match comes back around with a mathematical equation closed off on both sides: (Funk Sleeper --> Funk choking Martel with string --> Martel choking Funk with rope --> Martel sleeper) and a hilarious and gnarly spot where Funk all but puts a chair over his head and lets Martel pile drive him, before going into the banana peel cheaty finish. Again, what a balance. Funk showed so much emotion for everything that was happening for him that the crowd had to be invested; they couldn't look away. Then when it was time for him to take over, he was all but seething with indignation. With the selfless actions, he built up a capitol that he paid off with venom and vitriol. Martel played the straight man well, better than most have for he's one of the best babyfaces ever, but Funk could have had this entire match with a broomstick and it still would have been amazing.

CM Punk/Ace Steel vs BJ Whitmer/Dan Maff (Street Fight) ROH Death Before Dishonor 7/24/04

Quite the match Tim has given me here. Quite the match. Fun fact. Tim had no idea that BJ Whitmer had been fired THE SAME DAY that he gave me this. So we have Ace and Punk on one side, basically the only guy other than Scrull who didn't survive the ROH internal Speaking Out probes in Maff and, of course, Whitmer. In Chicago. Good stuff. 

I haven't seen this match in fifteen years, at least. It's a 46 minute video but the first five of that is Allison Danger playing Medea and calling down the heavens upon both teams for what she'd been through, manifesting doom in the form of plundah. It goes on for a bit too long but it's pretty theatrical. The last few minutes are Generation Next kickstarting their feud with the Saints with Steamboat taped to the ropes as witness. It's all pretty theatrical when you think of that capping. 

The match is very good for one specific reason, one key reason that lays at the heart of every vaguely even streetfight and every hardcore match that isn't a massive mauling and a massive comeback: the violence escalates. It's huge. It's everything. It's why this works. It's why the fans act how they do when they do but we'll get to that if you don't already know. It starts with brawling. Brawling turns to Punk and Ace getting an advantage with teamwork. That gives way to Maff and Whitmer introducing chairs to take over and then their belts to dig in on it. The Saints get control of the weapons and fight back. Chairs and belts become tables and eventually the barbed wire bat. Too much, too soon, and Maff and Whitmer are able to avert it and start to use the barbed wire themselves. Then it teeters back and forth with each side taking risks and each side gaining and losing on a hair's breadth. Throughout this, Whitmer has his throws and Punk throws himself into everything with his usual awkward authenticity. One of the real strengths of our pal Phil is that he was able to leverage his modest physical shortcomings into something that just felt more abrupt and real.

So, blood, sweat, violence, all leading to them coming back to the chairs in a brutal standoff where Punk and Steel get the better of their opponents and the chairs (demolished opponents, demolished chairs) and everyone clears the ring in exhaustion. Except for the ref. The poor damn ref. This was the equivalent of a strike exchange towards the end of the match but with greater weight and consequence and build. Everything had led to this moment and the fans were frothing with bloodlust as it came and went and left them needing more. And for once, they themselves provided. A hundred chairs came flying in the ring, one after the next, as the ref covered up. You can practically see this poor bastard's hit points going down and years being taken off his life as metal and wood and plastic all come sailing in. And here I have to applaud their adaptability. They work a finishing stretch after this, a big dive onto a ladder after this, the actual finish after this, a whole post match angle with Ricky Steamboat after this! And all the while, everything is endlessly more dangerous and more difficult because there are chairs in the ring. They plow on, making the most of the chaos and the most of the moment.

And when you think about it, isn't it what we've been doing for the last year? Haven't we been throwing the chairs because of our own thirst for gossip and intrigue and dirt? It's built and built and built and we wanted more and more. After the match but before the run in, the crowd chants "Thank you" over and over again. Not Fight Forever. Not This is Awesome. Not ROH. "Thank You." I don't think that would happen today. Even with the Generation Next beatdown, I bet they all left on a high. I bet they went back and posted on the internet about what they saw, about what they were a part of. And some time later, maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe ten years, they looked back and realized what they had done, what they had contributed too. They watched the tape back to relive the visceral memory and this time they focused on the ref, hands over his head, trapped in the ring, a hopeless victim of a world he did not make, a man just doing his job, and they paused and looked away with regret. That's us now, isn't it? It's been fun, but we just want the ride to stop. And yet every Friday morning when someone recaps the Observer, it just keeps going and going, a train that we cannot get off, a trainwreck from which we cannot look away. This bet is over. Collision has begun. The chairs have been cleared out of the ring.

Yet here we are. Trapped together.   

At least the company's good.

Shinya Hashimoto vs Kintaro Kanemura (Exploding Barbed Wired Match) WEW 5/5/03

This was a back up to the first match Tim had given me which was a random indy Monty Brown vs Sabu match that isn't quite dredged up from the depths of old tape traders yet. When it comes back around, I will watch it though. He had DEAN in mind and he had him in mind here. It's been two and a half months since we lost him and I think about him all the time. I watch wrestling all the time. I post on the Board all the time. I listen to music. I think about DEAN. 

 

This match was supposed to be Hashimoto vs Fuyuki. I spent a hell of a lot of time with Fuyuki during the pandemic when I was watching AJPW. I like Fuyuki more than Kawada in Footloose. Kanemura is another meaty dude that teamed with him dozens of times. He's not a match for Hashimoto but who is? He has heart. He deserves to be in that ring. He deserves to pay tribute. He deserved the opportunity to work through his grief with pain and violence and perseverance. I can't relate to this, sitting in a finished basement in Maryland having just mowed a suburban lawn in poor air quality due to Canadian wildfires so that my kids wouldn't get stung by bees lurking in clover, or at least so they won't be afraid of the idea of it. I can't relate. I can empathize because I know grief. But I can't relate. 

 

What sort of man is Kanemura? How did they pay tribute to Fuyuki's spirit? They took his urn in hand, first Hashimoto, then Kanemura. Hashimoto grasped the pure white receptacle and charged backwards into the wire, the explosion searing his skin as the pain seared his heart. Then Kanemaru took the urn and did the same. But the wire didn't explode. So he did it again. And yet still it did not explode. So he steeled his will and charged one last time and embraced the sparks and fire as he was baptized in a blaze of mourning and defiance, holding the ashes of his compatriot and ally.

 

And then they beat on each other for eight long minutes. Most of it was Hashimoto laying in kicks and chops and Kanemaru rising to take more and more. At one point he was able to force Hashimoto back into a second wire explosion and take over. With his hard-earned control, he slammed Hashimoto onto a barbed wire back and pressed down upon him, Hash becoming akin to a monk enduring flagellation in the name of a dearly departed soul. Hashimoto fired back, swept Kanemarue twice, and (taking multiple tries once again, as if Fuyuki's spirit was pleading uncharacteristic mercy from above) electrifying him, before downing him with the DDT, the kick, and finally crushing his skull from a high angle. Each time Kanemaru barely hung on until he could hang on no more. It was one of the damndest ways to work through grief I've ever seen and in its own way, maybe it, and this helped me through mine. 

 

To me, this is the most ridiculous sort of DVDVR bullshit out there. You make a big claim. You back it up with a wager. The stakes are three matches. It's not all that common, but it's how we should rise up and deal with our disagreements in life, how we should be calling one another and putting one another on the spot when we get too big for our own good. Tim is a friend, and he showed me more mercy here than Hashimoto and Kanemaru showed to one another, and I consider myself fortunate that our fates were intertwined in a bizarro limbo for a year. It meant I was able to check in on him and hear about both challenges and joys in his life that I might not have otherwise. Certainly, this was one bet that I didn't mind losing. It was always going to be win-win for me to some degree. I'm glad to have closure on this one matter, even if it's reminded me that I might be chasing it for years to come on others.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Matt D

[Log]

Who's the NFL writer?

[Zimbra]

1 minute ago, Log said:

Who's the NFL writer?

Bill Barnwell, I assume.

This is the kind of stuff that will keep me coming back to this board until the wheels come off.  Great work from Tim and Matt.

[TimLivingston]

Bill’s the one. Veteran Presence forever. 

[Log]

I had no idea. That's really cool.

[JLowe]

42 minutes ago, TimLivingston said:

Bill’s the one. Veteran Presence forever. 

Holy shit I totally forgot about Veteran Presence!

 

Also just fantastic writing from the both of yas

[odessasteps]

Does bryans friend Vince still write for football outsiders? 

[TimLivingston]

Verhei? An editor there. 

[RIPPA]

4 hours ago, JLowe said:

Holy shit I totally forgot about Veteran Presence!

Ironically I finally killed off the VP domain (and Cant Teach Speed) a few months ago

[TimLivingston]

Activating Wayback Machine in 3…

[Zimbra]

1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

Ironically I finally killed off the VP domain (and Cant Teach Speed) a few months ago

It's already been grabbed for some kind of weird AI generated articles about poker. Yet weirdly still has the original VP writer bios up.

[tbarrie]

1 hour ago, Zimbra said:

It's already been grabbed for some kind of weird AI generated articles about poker. Yet weirdly still has the original VP writer bios up.

I read that as "Weird Al generated" and almost went to look.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

9 hours ago, Matt D said:

With earnest and not in the least begrudging thanks from Tim for the bet, the intertwined fates of the last year, and the matches (which were in their own way a true mercy), I shall get right to it.

 

Terry Funk vs Rick Martel (Universal Title Semi-Final Match) WWC 9/20/86

 

This is one of my absolute favorite performances of all time and Tim is a Mensch. There are two great Funk vs Martel matches on tape. The other is an AJPW tag with Martel/Zenk vs the Funks where they treat Martel like a buddy, a fellow champion, and Zenk like he's the dirt beneath their feet. This is special in a totally different way. It's one of the craziest, most over the top Funk performances ever, against an all time babyface, in an area alien to both of them. Just wild stuff. 

Terry Funk is probably the single best seller of all time. There's Ricky Morton. There's Rey Mysterio. There's Lawler. There's Invader I. Terry, though, was transcendent. The way I explain it is thus: he's the first foreigner to really get over in Japan as a babyface and he got over by being credible, by being fierce, by being tough, but most of all by being absolutely afraid to look vulnerable despite all that. It mattered when Dory got in there and fired back; it mattered even more when Terry was recovered enough to do the same and it mattered because Terry was fearless and selfless and sold everything like it was the absolute most important, most devastating, most impactful thing in the world. The more he cares, the more you care.

And boy did he care here. The match starts with him trying to cheapshot Martel; he loses his hat in the process. Martel kneedrops it. Funk can't get out of his pants. Funk tries to use the branding iron. Funk tries a straight up assault. He climbs to the top and slips off and crotches himself. And then he loses it completely, chucking chairs into the crowd. And it's the most Puerto Rico thing imaginable. It wouldn't work anywhere else, but here? Here it was wrestling perfection. Of course he comes back in and has his pants pulled down by Martel. This is the first time I ever watched the match with youtube's translation function on and the apologizing after that from the announcers is hilarious. All of it is. 

And when it comes time to turn to something weightier to balance out the stakes of the match (the winner to face the winner of Abby vs Colon for the title), Funk manages it perfectly, starting with a low blow mule kick (Foul!) and then taking it to Martel on the outside. Here's Martel's chance to sell and he does so to the very last row of a baseball stadium. The match comes back around with a mathematical equation closed off on both sides: (Funk Sleeper --> Funk choking Martel with string --> Martel choking Funk with rope --> Martel sleeper) and a hilarious and gnarly spot where Funk all but puts a chair over his head and lets Martel pile drive him, before going into the banana peel cheaty finish. Again, what a balance. Funk showed so much emotion for everything that was happening for him that the crowd had to be invested; they couldn't look away. Then when it was time for him to take over, he was all but seething with indignation. With the selfless actions, he built up a capitol that he paid off with venom and vitriol. Martel played the straight man well, better than most have for he's one of the best babyfaces ever, but Funk could have had this entire match with a broomstick and it still would have been amazing.

CM Punk/Ace Steel vs BJ Whitmer/Dan Maff (Street Fight) ROH Death Before Dishonor 7/24/04

Quite the match Tim has given me here. Quite the match. Fun fact. Tim had no idea that BJ Whitmer had been fired THE SAME DAY that he gave me this. So we have Ace and Punk on one side, basically the only guy other than Scrull who didn't survive the ROH internal Speaking Out probes in Maff and, of course, Whitmer. In Chicago. Good stuff. 

I haven't seen this match in fifteen years, at least. It's a 46 minute video but the first five of that is Allison Danger playing Medea and calling down the heavens upon both teams for what she'd been through, manifesting doom in the form of plundah. It goes on for a bit too long but it's pretty theatrical. The last few minutes are Generation Next kickstarting their feud with the Saints with Steamboat taped to the ropes as witness. It's all pretty theatrical when you think of that capping. 

The match is very good for one specific reason, one key reason that lays at the heart of every vaguely even streetfight and every hardcore match that isn't a massive mauling and a massive comeback: the violence escalates. It's huge. It's everything. It's why this works. It's why the fans act how they do when they do but we'll get to that if you don't already know. It starts with brawling. Brawling turns to Punk and Ace getting an advantage with teamwork. That gives way to Maff and Whitmer introducing chairs to take over and then their belts to dig in on it. The Saints get control of the weapons and fight back. Chairs and belts become tables and eventually the barbed wire bat. Too much, too soon, and Maff and Whitmer are able to avert it and start to use the barbed wire themselves. Then it teeters back and forth with each side taking risks and each side gaining and losing on a hair's breadth. Throughout this, Whitmer has his throws and Punk throws himself into everything with his usual awkward authenticity. One of the real strengths of our pal Phil is that he was able to leverage his modest physical shortcomings into something that just felt more abrupt and real.

So, blood, sweat, violence, all leading to them coming back to the chairs in a brutal standoff where Punk and Steel get the better of their opponents and the chairs (demolished opponents, demolished chairs) and everyone clears the ring in exhaustion. Except for the ref. The poor damn ref. This was the equivalent of a strike exchange towards the end of the match but with greater weight and consequence and build. Everything had led to this moment and the fans were frothing with bloodlust as it came and went and left them needing more. And for once, they themselves provided. A hundred chairs came flying in the ring, one after the next, as the ref covered up. You can practically see this poor bastard's hit points going down and years being taken off his life as metal and wood and plastic all come sailing in. And here I have to applaud their adaptability. They work a finishing stretch after this, a big dive onto a ladder after this, the actual finish after this, a whole post match angle with Ricky Steamboat after this! And all the while, everything is endlessly more dangerous and more difficult because there are chairs in the ring. They plow on, making the most of the chaos and the most of the moment.

And when you think about it, isn't it what we've been doing for the last year? Haven't we been throwing the chairs because of our own thirst for gossip and intrigue and dirt? It's built and built and built and we wanted more and more. After the match but before the run in, the crowd chants "Thank you" over and over again. Not Fight Forever. Not This is Awesome. Not ROH. "Thank You." I don't think that would happen today. Even with the Generation Next beatdown, I bet they all left on a high. I bet they went back and posted on the internet about what they saw, about what they were a part of. And some time later, maybe a day, maybe a week, maybe ten years, they looked back and realized what they had done, what they had contributed too. They watched the tape back to relive the visceral memory and this time they focused on the ref, hands over his head, trapped in the ring, a hopeless victim of a world he did not make, a man just doing his job, and they paused and looked away with regret. That's us now, isn't it? It's been fun, but we just want the ride to stop. And yet every Friday morning when someone recaps the Observer, it just keeps going and going, a train that we cannot get off, a trainwreck from which we cannot look away. This bet is over. Collision has begun. The chairs have been cleared out of the ring.

Yet here we are. Trapped together.   

At least the company's good.

Shinya Hashimoto vs Kintaro Kanemura (Exploding Barbed Wired Match) WEW 5/5/03

This was a back up to the first match Tim had given me which was a random indy Monty Brown vs Sabu match that isn't quite dredged up from the depths of old tape traders yet. When it comes back around, I will watch it though. He had DEAN in mind and he had him in mind here. It's been two and a half months since we lost him and I think about him all the time. I watch wrestling all the time. I post on the Board all the time. I listen to music. I think about DEAN. 

 

This match was supposed to be Hashimoto vs Fuyuki. I spent a hell of a lot of time with Fuyuki during the pandemic when I was watching AJPW. I like Fuyuki more than Kawada in Footloose. Kanemura is another meaty dude that teamed with him dozens of times. He's not a match for Hashimoto but who is? He has heart. He deserves to be in that ring. He deserves to pay tribute. He deserved the opportunity to work through his grief with pain and violence and perseverance. I can't relate to this, sitting in a finished basement in Maryland having just mowed a suburban lawn in poor air quality due to Canadian wildfires so that my kids wouldn't get stung by bees lurking in clover, or at least so they won't be afraid of the idea of it. I can't relate. I can empathize because I know grief. But I can't relate. 

 

What sort of man is Kanemura? How did they pay tribute to Fuyuki's spirit? They took his urn in hand, first Hashimoto, then Kanemura. Hashimoto grasped the pure white receptacle and charged backwards into the wire, the explosion searing his skin as the pain seared his heart. Then Kanemaru took the urn and did the same. But the wire didn't explode. So he did it again. And yet still it did not explode. So he steeled his will and charged one last time and embraced the sparks and fire as he was baptized in a blaze of mourning and defiance, holding the ashes of his compatriot and ally.

 

And then they beat on each other for eight long minutes. Most of it was Hashimoto laying in kicks and chops and Kanemaru rising to take more and more. At one point he was able to force Hashimoto back into a second wire explosion and take over. With his hard-earned control, he slammed Hashimoto onto a barbed wire back and pressed down upon him, Hash becoming akin to a monk enduring flagellation in the name of a dearly departed soul. Hashimoto fired back, swept Kanemarue twice, and (taking multiple tries once again, as if Fuyuki's spirit was pleading uncharacteristic mercy from above) electrifying him, before downing him with the DDT, the kick, and finally crushing his skull from a high angle. Each time Kanemaru barely hung on until he could hang on no more. It was one of the damndest ways to work through grief I've ever seen and in its own way, maybe it, and this helped me through mine. 

 

To me, this is the most ridiculous sort of DVDVR bullshit out there. You make a big claim. You back it up with a wager. The stakes are three matches. It's not all that common, but it's how we should rise up and deal with our disagreements in life, how we should be calling one another and putting one another on the spot when we get too big for our own good. Tim is a friend, and he showed me more mercy here than Hashimoto and Kanemaru showed to one another, and I consider myself fortunate that our fates were intertwined in a bizarro limbo for a year. It meant I was able to check in on him and hear about both challenges and joys in his life that I might not have otherwise. Certainly, this was one bet that I didn't mind losing. It was always going to be win-win for me to some degree. I'm glad to have closure on this one matter, even if it's reminded me that I might be chasing it for years to come on others.

This (and Tim's post) legit brought a legit tear to ole Gordlow's eye. Settling a difference of opinion in a constructive way. Thinking deeply about wrestling, and relating it to stuff going on around us (Navel-gazing, if you will). Paying tribute to a man we all miss terribly. All while enjoying a wide variety of pro wrestling matches. 

Legitimately beautiful. What this site is REALLY about, in my mind anyway. 

Thanks for this.

[Marcel]

On 7/19/2023 at 7:02 PM, RIPPA said:

Ironically I finally killed off the VP domain (and Cant Teach Speed) a few months ago

Oh man, Veteran Presence.  We're getting old....